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Government will prosecute students who don't repay student loans Watch

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    (Original post by Klix88)
    I graduated from my undergrad in 2011, Masters in 2012 and am just about to stop the PhD. It would seem that my last uni doesn't share your views on my employability, given that they keep offering me contracts. Research Assistant to one of the top men in my field in the world doesn't *feel* like a dead end job, but I bow to your greater enlightenment on the subject.P.S. I'm 52 years old and worked for 20+ years before my current stint at uni. The last ten years of my employment I was a high-rate tax payer and paid off my mortgage early. I had a very successful career, but thank you for your concern about my prospects. I hope you get that lucky in your life i.e. earn enough to buy your freedom while you're still young enough to do the things you actually want to do. Not many will, these days.
    That's the thing though, PhD only students aren't very employable. They get academic contracts, research positions (both are pretty competitive and don't pay much in the way of careers). You however have years of experience as a high end tax payer, that is infinitely more invaluable even if it's in another discipline. Nobody wants to hire a 3X year old PhD student with no real world experience there are better candidates to choose from.

    Case in point, I know a 33 year old researcher in chemical engineering who was earning half what I did at 25. It depends career to career but generally the more degrees you get the more redundant they become. A masters is good for visa points in other countries but completely not required in many professions - experience = better. A PhD will give you academic career prospects but negatively effect your industry employability. At the very least have no effect on it, we hire PhDs on a similar salary +/-2k to undergrads... and if they are too old won't hire them at all.

    Also generally specialized people earn more money and such "mickey mouse degrees" without sounding condescending don't generally qualify you for great paying specialized positions. It's not like you care anyway it sounds as if you already made your money and just want something easier which is fine but for a poor 2X year old going down that route is unlikely to give you a well paying career.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Good luck prosecuting someone who has left the country lol.
    wouldn't it affect the person if they tried to re-enter the uk again though? or wanted to move back?
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Good luck prosecuting someone who has left the country lol.
    If you can find them it likely won't be hard, it's just that finding them isn't worth the effort.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    That's the thing though, PhD only students aren't very employable. They get academic contracts, research positions (both are pretty competitive and don't pay much in the way of careers). You however have years of experience as a high end tax payer, that is infinitely more invaluable even if it's in another discipline. Nobody wants to hire a 3X year old PhD student with no real world experience there are better candidates to choose from.

    Case in point, I know a 33 year old researcher in chemical engineering who was earning half what I did at 25. It depends career to career but generally the more degrees you get the more redundant they become. A masters is good for visa points in other countries but completely not required in many professions - experience = better. A PhD will give you academic career prospects but negatively effect your industry employability. At the very least have no effect on it, we hire PhDs on a similar salary +/-2k to undergrads... and if they are too old won't hire them at all.

    Also generally specialized people earn more money and such "mickey mouse degrees" without sounding condescending don't generally qualify you for great paying specialized positions. It's not like you care anyway it sounds as if you already made your money and just want something easier which is fine but for a poor 2X year old going down that route is unlikely to give you a well paying career.
    Life isn't just about how much money you can make - otherwise I'd be really miffed about the £300,000+ of earnings I've lost since I started uni. One thing my high-flying former career taught me, was that I should value my quality of life more than doing whatever it takes to aquire wealth. Which was well on the way to killing me. Years of 24x7 callout will do that.

    I'm doing what I love. I live a most amazing life which I could never have anticipated ten years ago. Uni and my Mickey Mouse qualifications gave me that. I wouldn't swap any of it for a paltry £300k.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    That's the thing though, PhD only students aren't very employable. They get academic contracts, research positions (both are pretty competitive and don't pay much in the way of careers). You however have years of experience as a high end tax payer, that is infinitely more invaluable even if it's in another discipline. Nobody wants to hire a 3X year old PhD student with no real world experience there are better candidates to choose from.

    Case in point, I know a 33 year old researcher in chemical engineering who was earning half what I did at 25. It depends career to career but generally the more degrees you get the more redundant they become. A masters is good for visa points in other countries but completely not required in many professions - experience = better. A PhD will give you academic career prospects but negatively effect your industry employability. At the very least have no effect on it, we hire PhDs on a similar salary +/-2k to undergrads... and if they are too old won't hire them at all.

    Also generally specialized people earn more money and such "mickey mouse degrees" without sounding condescending don't generally qualify you for great paying specialized positions. It's not like you care anyway it sounds as if you already made your money and just want something easier which is fine but for a poor 2X year old going down that route is unlikely to give you a well paying career.
    That's simply not true, you're generalising far too much there. For a lot of careers, a PhD is the only route to employment, a PhD is not solely for research/ academia.

    For example if you want to do anything related to psychology you need a PhD, and clinical/ educational/ forensic psychology PhD places are so competitive that a lot end up using a masters as a gateway to a PhD. Of course the same applies to research.

    And so for research in itself, that has a lot of potential for growth in income. You may have exceeded that chemical engineers income at 25, but in a decade he could be far exceeding yours. And btw, saying "without sounding condescending" doesn't make a condescending statement any less condescending, you're just making it more salient if anything
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    Not surprising, it is a loan after all as opposed to free money.
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    If you read the actual legislation and not what some tabloid newspaper has to say you would know the government plan on prosecuting people who don't repay student loans IF they have AVOIDED repayment. Which is how an actual bog standard loan works anyways.


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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Who asked you too go to university to then only get employment worth £21,000? You could have saved the tax payer their money by not going at all and going to work in retail (about the same wage). Its ridiculous how many people get bad A-levels but want too go into subjects such as economics, law and go too "crap" universities, graduate and realise no firm wants them and are stuck back in square one but only with a bank balance of -£60,000.
    Jobs in retail that you can get without a degree are usually minimum wage, which is certainly not £21,000! To earn that amount in retail you would need to be at management level which these days often requires you to go on a graduate scheme, for which of course you need a degree! More and more jobs are requiring degrees which didn't used to so you actually do need to go to uni even to get a job which pays £21,000.
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    I read this comment on an independent article
    "I have 1 very intelligent son, qualified to but will not go to Uni as frightened of debt (rightly) so he works in a small shop... it is a waste and I think he turns his intelligence inward and will have mental problems. My other son is at Uni and will have debt... he is autistic/adhd but it is hard for him to find his place in the world at all. We all lose as mine and other children could be the ones that would have solved important problems in the world, given education... so sad"
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by Danny McCoyne)
    I read this comment on an independent article
    "I have 1 very intelligent son, qualified to but will not go to Uni as frightened of debt (rightly) so he works in a small shop... it is a waste and I think he turns his intelligence inward and will have mental problems. My other son is at Uni and will have debt... he is autistic/adhd but it is hard for him to find his place in the world at all. We all lose as mine and other children could be the ones that would have solved important problems in the world, given education... so sad"
    :rofl:
    What else should one expect from the independent other than left wing wrongness?

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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    That's simply not true, you're generalising far too much there. For a lot of careers, a PhD is the only route to employment, a PhD is not solely for research/ academia.

    For example if you want to do anything related to psychology you need a PhD, and clinical/ educational/ forensic psychology PhD places are so competitive that a lot end up using a masters as a gateway to a PhD. Of course the same applies to research.

    And so for research in itself, that has a lot of potential for growth in income. You may have exceeded that chemical engineers income at 25, but in a decade he could be far exceeding yours. And btw, saying "without sounding condescending" doesn't make a condescending statement any less condescending, you're just making it more salient if anything
    Unlikely, look at the earning potential for research/academic positions they are poor. Everyone knows it and it's an extremely competitive market at the top end. If he does earn more than me it will because a) he got an industry job and b) he attained better experience than me. Even most PhDs I know tell me the exact same thing. It's not worth it from a financial perspective at all and you'll usually get entry level jobs with a PhD.

    It is worth if it that's what you enjoy or you want to be a professor but salary expectations suck. Perhaps in psychology it pays better but psychology grads are some of the poorest paid around anyway. Also education in general is an underpaid sector.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Are you stupid? £21,000 is the threshold that means most graduates earning below are not earning 20,999 they are earning roughly £12,000 - £20,000. The majority are on the former, which is the same pay as someone in retail (roughly £15,000). Also its common sense if your degree is only going to pay £15,000 then save the tax payer money and go do something else.
    As I said, the average wage for retail if you don't have a degree is minimum wage and that's around £12,000. In your previous comment it seemed like you were saying that you could skip university and get a job at £21,000 without a degree. I'm just saying that's unlikely to happen. There is no need to be rude, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    You can skip university and get a job at £21,000 :/ are you really going to sit and tell me if you dont go to university you cant get a job over 21k? Its not unlikely its alot more likely than the kids studying Economics at Wolverhampton/BCU/ every other ex poly thinking they will become investment bankers.
    Well I don't know anything about investment banking and whether university prestige matters when it comes to getting a job in that sector so I can't argue with you on that point. Originally I was simply pointing out that retail jobs that you can get without a degree are quite low paid and it's not easy to get a job paying £21,000 without a degree. Of course it's possible, I was just saying it's not easy. The employment market is becoming more and more competitive so getting any degree will give you an advantage when it comes to getting a job.

    However, I can see the point that you are trying to make.
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    Fair enough tbh don't see the issue, if you earn under 21k they're not suddenly chasing you, they're chasing those who move abroad mainly.
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    They need to get their priorities straight.
    Interesting how they are more interested in going to the trouble of chasing down people all over the world for debts that would amount to tuppence compared to the millions or billions owed by the likes of google and other billionaires in tax havens... Whilst you hear about this in the news constantly, the issue is clearly still up in the air, save for a 'meeting' which got nowhere as the Google boss couldn't even (didn't want to) declare his own salary...

    Typical Con nonsense... lock out further education for everyone except the privileged. For example the scrapping of grants to be replaced with the idiotic maintenance loans system which would bury poorer students under even more debt, simply because they are dished out bigger loans which would take longer to pay off, compared to their better off friends who would've borrowed less... So much for social mobility. Have any potential students actually investigated this? Oh wait, not here, I'm surrounded by Tory sympathisers...

    The only solace is that after 30 years the 'taxpayer's' money will disappear into thin air, but wouldn't be surprised if they made it 100 years...
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    (Original post by bj1)
    They need to get their priorities straight.
    Interesting how they are more interested in going to the trouble of chasing down people all over the world for debts that would amount to tuppence compared to the millions or billions owed by the likes of google and other billionaires in tax havens... Whilst you hear about this in the news constantly, the issue is clearly still up in the air, save for a 'meeting' which got nowhere as the Google boss couldn't even (didn't want to) declare his own salary...

    Typical Con nonsense... lock out further education for everyone except the privileged. For example the scrapping of grants to be replaced with the idiotic maintenance loans system which would bury poorer students under even more debt, simply because they are dished out bigger loans which would take longer to pay off, compared to their better off friends who would've borrowed less... So much for social mobility. Have any potential students actually investigated this? Oh wait, not here, I'm surrounded by Tory sympathisers...

    The only solace is that after 30 years the 'taxpayer's' money will disappear into thin air, but wouldn't be surprised if they made it 100 years...
    You are seriously underestimating the size of the problem. The Rt Hon Margaret Hodge MP (LABOUR), Chair of the Committee of Public Accounts, said: http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...t-publication/
    "There is around £46 billion of outstanding student loans on the Government’s books, and this is before the full impact of fee rises to £9,000 a year. This figure will rise dramatically to £200 billion by 2042.The Government assumes that 35% to 40% of the total will never be repaid. That is some £16 billion to £18 billion on the current debt of £46 billion and £70 billion to £80 billion on the estimated value of student loans by 2042." She also went on to say it's likely to be higher.

    Makes even Google's tax dodge look like small beer.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    You are seriously underestimating the size of the problem. The Rt Hon Margaret Hodge MP (LABOUR), Chair of the Committee of Public Accounts, said: http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...t-publication/
    "There is around £46 billion of outstanding student loans on the Government’s books, and this is before the full impact of fee rises to £9,000 a year. This figure will rise dramatically to £200 billion by 2042.The Government assumes that 35% to 40% of the total will never be repaid. That is some £16 billion to £18 billion on the current debt of £46 billion and £70 billion to £80 billion on the estimated value of student loans by 2042." She also went on to say it's likely to be higher.

    Makes even Google's tax dodge look like small beer.
    All of this worrying is making me feel a bit sweaty. I am seriously thinking about making a *small* repayment on my debt, right now!
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    (Original post by john2054)
    All of this worrying is making me feel a bit sweaty. I am seriously thinking about making a *small* repayment on my debt, right now!
    Okay i've just paid £10 off my debt! Who says that we're not getting somewhere??
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Okay i've just paid £10 off my debt! Who says that we're not getting somewhere??
    Just imagine if everyone reading tsr at this moment did this, the government would be laughing!
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    (Original post by jneill)
    You are seriously underestimating the size of the problem. The Rt Hon Margaret Hodge MP (LABOUR), Chair of the Committee of Public Accounts, said: http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...t-publication/
    "There is around £46 billion of outstanding student loans on the Government’s books, and this is before the full impact of fee rises to £9,000 a year. This figure will rise dramatically to £200 billion by 2042.The Government assumes that 35% to 40% of the total will never be repaid. That is some £16 billion to £18 billion on the current debt of £46 billion and £70 billion to £80 billion on the estimated value of student loans by 2042." She also went on to say it's likely to be higher.

    Makes even Google's tax dodge look like small beer.
    Outstanding just means they haven't paid it back yet, just how much would theoretically be saved introducing this?

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