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Dinner as a junior doctor Watch

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    (Original post by kka25)
    Awesomeness, shouldn't you eat more healthily?
    It was a Pepsi Max, though! :ahee:

    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    I know you're being toungue-in-cheek, but I work as a carer doing shift work and I take a better lunch with me than you do and the time of my shift makes no difference as to whether I eat well or not. I prepare sandwiches, fruit, snacks and a drink before I leave for work - pop it all in a cool bag, sorted.

    Working a night shift doesn't mean you have to eat convenience food. I also work long and often times unsociable hours and I'd bet that I do a lot more physical manual handling of patients than you do and I get paid a hell of a lot less. When I hear people talking of ''oh but lives are in doctors hands'' - they're in our hands too , literally when we're hoisting them out of bed, transferring them with stand aids etc and giving out medications (a responsibility for which we get a ONE DAY medication course and then ONE POUND per shift for the extra responsibility). We're more overworked, understaffed and underpaid than junior doctors and we have lives in our hands too - do you see us striking and leaving our patients etc? No.

    I know I just went totally serious on you, but you're trivializing something controversial that a lot of people in the health care industry (like me) have strong opinions about.

    Also, with regard to the bold part - you're pretty sheltered if you think that's not already the case generally.
    My sympathies are with you and all carers. You definitely work a lot for very little reward and it's something to be admired. However - I have to disagree on the striking part, junior doctors should be striking. Carers' poor working conditions don't mean junior doctors shouldn't strike, it just means both junior doctors and carers are being treated in an unjust manner that - in an ideal world - should be addressed.

    Also, the bolded part is very true.
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    (Original post by Justmoll28)
    if its about the whole pay and striking, i mean, you are still a junior doctor so why dont you just have a career swerve while youre still young? simples
    Are you 10 years old or something?
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    Working a night shift doesn't mean you have to eat convenience food. I also work long and often times unsociable hours and I'd bet that I do a lot more physical manual handling of patients than you do and I get paid a hell of a lot less. When I hear people talking of ''oh but lives are in doctors hands'' - they're in our hands too , literally when we're hoisting them out of bed, transferring them with stand aids etc and giving out medications (a responsibility for which we get a ONE DAY medication course and then ONE POUND per shift for the extra responsibility). We're more overworked, understaffed and underpaid than junior doctors and we have lives in our hands too - do you see us striking and leaving our patients etc? No.
    Yeah, I am sure you work very hard, but comparing your work with that of a junior doctor is a joke. There's a reason you get a day's training and doctors get several years of it.
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    (Original post by callum_law)
    Yeah, I am sure you work very hard, but comparing your work with that of a junior doctor is a joke. There's a reason you get a day's training and doctors get several years of it.
    No, we don't "get a days training" to work as a carer - that would be quite dangerous. We get a days training for medication dispensing, which isn't ideal. Different thing. Also, of course there are reasons that doctors train for a long time - that hardly needs to be pointed out. But that's not the point I'm talking about. The point is that everyone in health care is under pressure and working hard but we all have a duty of care, we all know what we signed up for with each job and we can all chose another profession if we don't like it. I don't think doctors would be rushing to apply for HCA positions.



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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    I know you're being toungue-in-cheek, but I work as a carer doing shift work and I take a better lunch with me than you do and the time of my shift makes no difference as to whether I eat well or not. I prepare sandwiches, fruit, snacks and a drink before I leave for work - pop it all in a cool bag, sorted.

    Working a night shift doesn't mean you have to eat convenience food. I also work long and often times unsociable hours and I'd bet that I do a lot more physical manual handling of patients than you do and I get paid a hell of a lot less. When I hear people talking of ''oh but lives are in doctors hands'' - they're in our hands too , literally when we're hoisting them out of bed, transferring them with stand aids etc and giving out medications (a responsibility for which we get a ONE DAY medication course and then ONE POUND per shift for the extra responsibility). We're more overworked, understaffed and underpaid than junior doctors and we have lives in our hands too - do you see us striking and leaving our patients etc? No.

    I know I just went totally serious on you, but you're trivializing something controversial that a lot of people in the health care industry (like me) have strong opinions about.

    Also, with regard to the bold part - you're pretty sheltered if you think that's not already the case generally.
    Have you ever considered why Medicine is such a competitive course to get into? Have you thought about how long doctors train? Not just in uni, but it's life-long learning - did you know that?

    Come down off your high horse - "Do you see us striking" RUBBISH, doctors wouldn't just strike to leave their patients. They're striking FOR their patients ultimately. Trust me, they wouldn't be doctors if they didn't care for the patients, and if they wanted in just for money.
    Doctors didn't know about the new contracts when they applied.
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    I know you're being toungue-in-cheek, but I work as a carer doing shift work and I take a better lunch with me than you do and the time of my shift makes no difference as to whether I eat well or not. I prepare sandwiches, fruit, snacks and a drink before I leave for work - pop it all in a cool bag, sorted.

    Working a night shift doesn't mean you have to eat convenience food. I also work long and often times unsociable hours and I'd bet that I do a lot more physical manual handling of patients than you do and I get paid a hell of a lot less. When I hear people talking of ''oh but lives are in doctors hands'' - they're in our hands too , literally when we're hoisting them out of bed, transferring them with stand aids etc and giving out medications (a responsibility for which we get a ONE DAY medication course and then ONE POUND per shift for the extra responsibility). We're more overworked, understaffed and underpaid than junior doctors and we have lives in our hands too - do you see us striking and leaving our patients etc? No.

    I know I just went totally serious on you, but you're trivializing something controversial that a lot of people in the health care industry (like me) have strong opinions about.

    Also, with regard to the bold part - you're pretty sheltered if you think that's not already the case generally.
    You should be striking though. I had no sympathy for junior doctors until they stopped sitting round whining and actually got off their arsed and went on strike.

    I have more sympathy for carers but the point still stands. Can't be that bad if you aren't prepares to do anything to fix it.
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    Carers might not be striking (they are employed by a vast range of different companies so it would be harder to co-ordinate than junior doctors, who all work for the NHS) but recruitment and retention in many areas is absolutely terrible, so yes, plenty of people are deciding that being a carer is "that bad" and not worth the crappy conditions.
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    (Original post by ATLHustler)
    Have you ever considered why Medicine is such a competitive course to get into? Have you thought about how long doctors train? Not just in uni, but it's life-long learning - did you know that?

    Come down off your high horse - "Do you see us striking" RUBBISH, doctors wouldn't just strike to leave their patients. They're striking FOR their patients ultimately. Trust me, they wouldn't be doctors if they didn't care for the patients, and if they wanted in just for money.
    Doctors didn't know about the new contracts when they applied.
    Yes, I considered medicine and physiotherapy as careers - ultimately chose physio because I didn't like a lot of aspects of medicine relating to the working conditions especially at FY1 and FY2 and generally the all consuming aspect of the job - I'll be 29 when I qualify (would have been older if I chose medicine) and want a good work/life balance. I have family and friends in the health care professions and the ones who are junior doctors are worked into the ground. I didn't want that. So I didn't choose that.

    Also, you seem particularly vexed. I'm not on a "high horse" - how could I be? We're the bottom rung of the ladder in health care. My point is - we have arguably the worst pay and working conditions but we also recognise our duty of care.

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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    Yes, I considered medicine and physiotherapy as careers - ultimately chose physio because I didn't like a lot of aspects of medicine relating to the working conditions especially at FY1 and FY2 and generally the all consuming aspect of the job - I'll be 29 when I qualify (would have been older if I chose medicine) and want a good work/life balance. I have family and friendly in the health care professions and the ones who are junior doctors are worked into the ground. I didn't want that. So I didn't choose that.

    Also, you seem particularly vexed. I'm not on a "high horse" - how could I be? We're the bottom rung of the ladder in health care. My point is - we have arguably the worst pay and working conditions but we also recognise our duty of care.

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    I highlighted something you said, "do you see us striking and leaving our patients, no." Kinda implies that you're on some moral high ground.

    The junior doctors left their patients for a reason. And although inconvienient, emergency care and ITU was still managed, and in some cases, the doctors that walked out made sure they had consultants covering. They still put the patients first.

    And yes, I do have strong opinions on this.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    You should be striking though. I had no sympathy for junior doctors until they stopped sitting round whining and actually got off their arsed and went on strike.

    I have more sympathy for carers but the point still stands. Can't be that bad if you aren't prepares to do anything to fix it.
    Do you currently work in healthcare? Genuine question.

    Because if we (carers) went on strike today there would be people who live in care homes or in their own homes with no family willing or able to care for them who have all manner of life limiting health conditions such a dementia who could not look after themselves.

    I look after elderly people who have had strokes, who have Parkinson's, dementia etc and can't feed themselves, walk (can't take themselves to the bathroom), or stand. I care for people with late stage dementia who sit in a chair all day and if it wasn't for the fact that we spoon feed them and hoist them onto a commode they would be starved and covered in their own faeces all day. If we went on strike those people would not have a drink all day or a visit to the bathroom or a meal or anyone to give them medication and ensure that they don't get pressure sores etc. They wouldn't have anyone to talk to or reassure them.

    Also, it's easier for me because this isn't my permanent job and I don't depend on it financially. But there are people who's mortgages and kids depend on their wages - they aren't in a position to strike, not on 12k a year and not knowing the effect it would have on our patients.

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    (Original post by ATLHustler)
    I highlighted something you said, "do you see us striking and leaving our patients, no." Kinda implies that you're on some moral high ground.

    The junior doctors left their patients for a reason. And although inconvienient, emergency care and ITU was still managed, and in some cases, the doctors at walked out made sure they had consultants covering. They still put the patients first.

    And yes, I do have strong opinions on this.
    I respect your strong opinions, genuinely, and I can understand things for the other point view too.

    I think, for me, I find it so hard to accept how someone in this line of work can abandon their duty of care. That's what it boils down to for me. As a carer, when we're short staffed we have people coming back early from annual leave, working split shifts, managers going back on the floor as carers and leaving the office etc. We don't put the patient last. Care work and particularly the NHS is all about putting the patient first and upholding our duty of care - personally it's a huge juxtaposition for a doctor to strike and I'm aware that there were steps made to ensure that staff were covered but my point is: what if everyone in healthcare (or every doctor) took that position of striking.

    My morality rests on "how would the world be if everyone acted in this manner?". I'd like to think that other health workers have that sense of morality but this strike has proved otherwise and I find that unsettling - especially as its doctors.

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    Double post
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    (Original post by Awesome Genius)
    On a serious note though, the new contract will create a situation where only people who are already well off will actually want to do medicine. Terrible really.
    No way principles and everything! You're blowing my mind.

    Who did you vote for last general election?
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    (Original post by Justmoll28)
    if its about the whole pay and striking, i mean, you are still a junior doctor so why dont you just have a career swerve while youre still young? simples
    And if they all do that it'll really solve the problem! Yay!
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    do you throw away the Wasabi or eat it

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    or make a poultice for your patients' carbuncles with it
    ?

    :holmes:
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    (Original post by the bear)
    do you throw away the Wasabi or eat it

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    or make a poultice for your patients' carbuncles with it
    ?

    :holmes:
    I'm hot though aren't I?
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    (Original post by the bear)
    do you throw away the Wasabi or eat it

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    or make a poultice for your patients' carbuncles with it
    ?

    :holmes:
    Wasabi :hide:
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    I'm hot though aren't I?
    compared to you Wasabi is mayonnaise :ahee:

    PS i am sorry about my quip about the legal profession earlier.

    dubia in meliorem partem interpretari debent

    :tong:
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    (Original post by redferry)
    You should be striking though. I had no sympathy for junior doctors until they stopped sitting round whining and actually got off their arsed and went on strike.

    I have more sympathy for carers but the point still stands. Can't be that bad if you aren't prepares to do anything to fix it.
    Wow

    You're more militant than me XD

    I don;t agree with that last sentence though. I don't agree with the logic around how healthcare staff should never go on strike, but I respect any health workers who think that. That doesn't mean they don't have it bad or don't recognize how bad they have it etc.
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    Pepsi? That's so unhealthy
 
 
 
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