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I went to the Calais refugee camp today Watch

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    The double standards yet again are nothing short of remarkable, we bomb Syria to piecesand then complain when the people living there being bombed seek a safe haven here.
    My emphasis. Let's put it in perspective.

    Number of UK bombs dropped on Syria = 19. In 11 weeks. An average of just over 1 bomb per week http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...non-event.html

    Number of Russian bombs dropped on Syria = 1500. In 5 months. An average of over 10 bombs per week - more than 10 times the rate of UK bombing https://www.rt.com/news/326532-russi...rs-syria-isis/

    There have been migrants congregating around Calais since 1999 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrants_around_Calais)

    Let's not pretend the issue is anything to do with the UK bombing Syria.
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    (Original post by Profesh)
    Whatever one's political stripe, the term 'freeloaders' as a pejorative epithet to describe people who have been uprooted from their ancestral homeland and seen everything—and in some cases, everyone—they hold dear systematically and relentlessly brutalised out of existence, from someone who effectively owes the sum total of their economic opportunity and prosperity to an accident-of-birth whose odds may very well be likened to those of winning the lottery, is a rank hypocrisy deserving only of the most fervent ridicule.
    Please, spare me. These aren't refugees.
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    Hey Mia,I was thinking. Would you ever consider consider going to Greece. The island of lesvos needs some volunteers and there are many aid organisations there that need the help of the public
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Hey Mia,I was thinking. Would you ever consider consider going to Greece. The island of lesvos needs some volunteers and there are many aid organisations there that need the help of the public
    I never considered! One of the guys in the delegation was seriously considering it.
    I think I'll need to go to Calais for a second time to gain more experience.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    Please, spare me. These aren't refugees.
    And your proof?
    Of course, Syria isn't being bombed is it? Homes aren't being destroyed, millions haven't died, Assad hasn't systematically slaughtered hundreds of thousands. It's all some lefty conspiracy right?

    These people left their homes, travelling thousands of miles on a flimsy ship, risked drowning to death all so they can come here and work in a club toilet right?

    Of course you'll go ' ah but they can claim asylum in France'
    But picture this, England had a civil war and you manage to flee to Mexico and live in a shanty town there. Would you not try and make it to the USA where they speak your language, you may have family and they will treat you much better?

    That doesn't make you an economic migrant.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    But picture this, England had a civil war and you manage to flee to Mexico and live in a shanty town there. Would you not try and make it to the USA where they speak your language, you may have family and they will treat you much better?

    That doesn't make you an economic migrant.
    That absolutely does make you an economic migrant.

    At that point you, and your family, are safe. You continue travelling purely for economic benefit = economic migrant.
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    (Original post by jedanselemyia)
    I never considered! One of the guys in the delegation was seriously considering it.
    I think I'll need to go to Calais for a second time to gain more experience.
    What do you think of the anarchist group "No Borders?" Do you support their aims and actions?
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    What do you think of the anarchist group "No Borders?" Do you support their aims and actions?
    Not much, the delegation doesn't collaborate with them and I don't really know what they do.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    What are you talking about?
    They are escaping Syria you know, the country in a civil war which is now also being bombed bu Russia, the US and UK. Yet they are economic migrants?

    They are escaping a civil war, not travelling across the world on an incredibly unsafe boat so they can work in a club toilet selling watered down aftershaves.
    Go back and read what the OP stated, instead of wasting my time.
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    (Original post by jedanselemyia)
    Yeah so ask away

    I have no patience for racist/islamophobic/xenophobic comments so I won't bother with those at all

    My battery is dead and I'm tired so I'll answer later
    How did you get the chance to go?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    But picture this, England had a civil war and you manage to flee to Mexico and live in a shanty town there. Would you not try and make it to the USA where they speak your language, you may have family and they will treat you much better?
    If England had a civil war and I managed to flee (rather than staying to fight, but that's another debate) - I'd head to France. It's close. It's safe. It's easy to get to. They'd give me shelter and healthcare. It might take a while but I'd be grateful. I'd work hard to learn French. I would make a new life for myself and my family and work hard to give back to the country which provided refuge and safety for us.

    I wouldn't be so reckless as to try and sail to Mexico in a bathtub with a rubber ring for safety. There's just no need. I wouldn't pay some smuggler thousands of pounds to try and get me across the border. I wouldn't put my family's life at risk doing that.

    Back to the real world now - I want to go and live in Australia. I have family there. They speak my language. It's a great place. But at the moment I don't have a work visa to go there. So I accept that I won't be moving there for now. I'm not going to break the law by trying to sneak in. I won't pay a criminal gang my life savings to get me to Indonesia where I can threaten a boat crew to take me to Australia just so I can have a nicer life. I'll get on with my life here and try and get a job which will one day let me move there - legally.
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    (Original post by jedanselemyia)
    Yeah so ask away

    I have no patience for racist/islamophobic/xenophobic comments so I won't bother with those at all

    My battery is dead and I'm tired so I'll answer later
    In the real world there is no safe space, you will have to actually argue against others in open debate, no matter how hurt your feelings. This isn't nursery anymore, you hardly seem motivated to care about this issue if you won't bother defending your viewpoint.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    And your proof?
    Of course, Syria isn't being bombed is it? Homes aren't being destroyed, millions haven't died, Assad hasn't systematically slaughtered hundreds of thousands. It's all some lefty conspiracy right?

    These people left their homes, travelling thousands of miles on a flimsy ship, risked drowning to death all so they can come here and work in a club toilet right?

    Of course you'll go ' ah but they can claim asylum in France'
    But picture this, England had a civil war and you manage to flee to Mexico and live in a shanty town there. Would you not try and make it to the USA where they speak your language, you may have family and they will treat you much better?

    That doesn't make you an economic migrant.
    The 3 key reasons for economic migration.
    Nice one.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    What are you talking about?
    They are escaping Syria you know, the country in a civil war which is now also being bombed bu Russia, the US and UK. Yet they are economic migrants?

    They are escaping a civil war, not travelling across the world on an incredibly unsafe boat so they can work in a club toilet selling watered down aftershaves.
    1. They have already escaped Syria.

    2. They are now in a safe country, as a result, they are only refugees so long as they are in that country.

    3. If they decide to cross a border legally, if they are still real refugees, they will be accepted.

    4. If they know that they have no right to migrate, they decide to leave a safe country, for, you guessed it, a safe country. This, therefore, makes them economic migrants as it was a volentary decision, they were not forced by gunfire on the beach etc.

    5.They were 'forced' by bad living conditions/poverty in Turkey. Now, what sort of migration is caused by bad living conditions and poverty in one country? You guessed it, economic migration.

    6. Then, they go through Greece (safe), Bulgaria (safe), Serbia (safe), croatia (safe), Slovinia (safe), Austria (safe), germany(safe), Belgium (safe), France (safe).
    Then, they are in Calais, but, they are still fleeing a war?

    It's hard to understand how educated people can think in this manner.
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    (Original post by jedanselemyia)
    I noticed the sarcastic tone. Anyway, one Afghan fellow was remarkably aware of UK politics and the Tory's agenda about refugees. I don't think he had a lot of hope as a result.
    Probably because living in France they are not refugees.
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    (Original post by balanced)
    1. They have already escaped Syria.

    2. They are now in a safe country, as a result, they are only refugees so long as they are in that country.

    3. If they decide to cross a border legally, if they are still real refugees, they will be accepted.

    4. If they know that they have no right to migrate, they decide to leave a safe country, for, you guessed it, a safe country. This, therefore, makes them economic migrants as it was a volentary decision, they were not forced by gunfire on the beach etc.

    5.They were 'forced' by bad living conditions/poverty in Turkey. Now, what sort of migration is caused by bad living conditions and poverty in one country? You guessed it, economic migration.

    6. Then, they go through Greece (safe), Bulgaria (safe), Serbia (safe), croatia (safe), Slovinia (safe), Austria (safe), germany(safe), Belgium (safe), France (safe).
    Then, they are in Calais, but, they are still fleeing a war?

    It's hard to understand how educated people can think in this manner.
    I agree with you!

    But I dont see any shame in been a economic migrant, all that effort just to get a half way decent job, you have to admire them, I know people who moan they cant get a job, as the only work near them is two bus rides away!
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    (Original post by balanced)
    1. They have already escaped Syria.

    2. They are now in a safe country, as a result, they are only refugees so long as they are in that country.

    3. If they decide to cross a border legally, if they are still real refugees, they will be accepted.

    4. If they know that they have no right to migrate, they decide to leave a safe country, for, you guessed it, a safe country. This, therefore, makes them economic migrants as it was a volentary decision, they were not forced by gunfire on the beach etc.

    5.They were 'forced' by bad living conditions/poverty in Turkey. Now, what sort of migration is caused by bad living conditions and poverty in one country? You guessed it, economic migration.

    6. Then, they go through Greece (safe), Bulgaria (safe), Serbia (safe), croatia (safe), Slovinia (safe), Austria (safe), germany(safe), Belgium (safe), France (safe).
    Then, they are in Calais, but, they are still fleeing a war?

    It's hard to understand how educated people can think in this manner.
    Only an idiot would consider them economic migrants in the normal sense.
    It's not people who want a job, it's people who are fleeing their homes because of civil war.

    Why should France and Germany have all the responsibility? As a continent we should be helping each other out and not shunning away people fleeing froma brutal civil war.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Only an idiot would consider them economic migrants in the normal sense.
    It's not people who want a job, it's people who are fleeing their homes because of civil war.

    Why should France and Germany have all the responsibility? As a continent we should be helping each other out and not shunning away people fleeing froma brutal civil war.
    Migrants have been congregating in and around Calais since 1999 (Wikipedia). The Syrian civil war followed on from the Arab Spring in 2011. What excuse are you going to make for the non-Syrian migrants in Calais?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It's not people who want a job, it's people who are fleeing their homes because of civil war..
    Some of them.

    But what about the rest ? They are simply looking for better economic conditions.

    A legitimate goal : but States have also the right to decide who can enter and who can't.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Only an idiot would consider them economic migrants in the normal sense.
    It's not people who want a job, it's people who are fleeing their homes because of civil war.

    Why should France and Germany have all the responsibility? As a continent we should be helping each other out and not shunning away people fleeing froma brutal civil war.
    They shouldn't. Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Saudi arabia, Iran and Bulgaria should be. Thier economic situation should be unimportant as they are refugees not economic migrants.

    As I explained, their route alone, alongside the UN's figures, shows us how only a tiny majority are refugees. The majority are economic migrants in the fullest sense, and are brilliant examples of economic migration, and how far people go to get money.
 
 
 
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