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scientific reasons for believing in god? Watch

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    (Original post by Oblivion99)
    Lool, idc, but I wanted to catalyse this thread :P and yes, im not a creationist :/
    I see. Sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick :P
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    I see. Sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick :P
    Still, was a fantastic post.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Again, Einstein's views are irrelevant. And there are no "new scientific equations, formulas that support the concept of God creating the universe" Not that I have heard of anyway.

    Do you doubt the Theory of Gravity? No. Then you shouldn't doubt the Big Bang Theory either. I don't care that a couple of atheists like to think that the universe is eternal. That's not what the science is showing. The Universe had a definite beginning about 13.7 billion years ago.
    Lol OK. I'll look into the big bang more when I have time. I only brought back Einstein views because you respond led to him in your previous reply. And there is a lot of discussion about whether the universe can come from nothing or not using math.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Lol OK. I'll look into the big bang more when I have time. I only brought back Einstein views because you respond led to him in your previous reply. And there is a lot of discussion about whether the universe can come from nothing or not using math.
    The universe didn't come from nothing when looking at the big bang theory, it came from a singularity with a huge energy increase.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Lol OK. I'll look into the big bang more when I have time. I only brought back Einstein views because you respond led to him in your previous reply. And there is a lot of discussion about whether the universe can come from nothing or not using math.
    "Lol OK. I'll look into the big bang more when I have time."

    Oh ok!
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    The big bang isn't the only plausible theory of the beginning of the universe. There's also the black hole-white hole theory in quantum loop corrections. There is another theory that the universe had come to be through a multidimensional black hole and matter had "leaked out" from another dimension. And steady state... believe it or not steady state is still possible if used in conjunction with the multi-dimensional black hole dynamic.

    Therefore the so called beginning of our universe doesn't have to have a definitive start point. Yes we can estimate the time that our universe has been in this stage. Note the word "stage", because if there was matter before "the beginning" the universe as we know it is just the aftermath of a cataclysmic cosmological event that altered space-time. There doesn't have to be a creator in this instance.

    And yet again there is no known beginning. Steven hawking was the man that made a large contribution to state that there is a beginning, but then again, he did disprove himself after.
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    Judging from my actual studying of the religious beliefs of Einstein, he would have been a deist or a pantheist, leaning towards the latter. To Einstein the terms God and Universe were interchangeable, he certainly didn't believe in the God of the bible and revealed region, he called the bible "childish and primitive" saying "no interpretation, no matter how subtle can change this".
    So to conclude Einstein did believe in God, the God of the philosopher Spinoza who doesn't or rarely intervenes with the universe, or he believed that the Universe was God, and the two would be used interchangeably by him.
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    (Original post by mangala)
    scientific, logical evidence which points towards the existence of god

    convert me from atheism
    You don't "believe" in science which deals with facts and with what can be proved. When something is proved, that's how it is and you don't have a choice in the matter to think otherwise. The existence of God cannot, essentially, be proved. That's why religious belief is called faith and why, ultimately, we are free to believe or not.

    Conversion comes from within. I know many cases of conversion; none of which have arisen from "proof" of the existence of God. They have arisen from a) the admiration of other people of faith and a desire to understand what makes them tick; b) being moved by music, art or architecture and a desire to understand the motivation of artists who created these works; c) identifying with religious writings, not necessarily limited to the Bible/Koran/Torah and finally, and very rarely, d) a sudden insight, a flash of inspiration brought about while looking at the natural world - a beautiful landscape, a waterfall, a sunset, the starlit night.

    I know that I cannot explain my faith by rational argument but it doesn't matter, because the two are simply different facets of the same thing: our existence.
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    Does anyone else get a bit nostalgic when reading these posts?

    All the frantic angry theists posting here (not all of the theists here fall under that category, but most do) is so reminiscent of Morrowind's Tribunal Temple! For those who haven't played Morrowind they're a militarised religion which works hard to suppress all knowledge of the rather nasty truth behind the tribunal's ascension to godhood by banning books and kidnapping "heretics" then locking them in a giant rock which floats in midair and torturing them until they change their opinions or die. It's really taking me back to my days of playing as a Telvanni mage-lord and blasting apart scribs and kagouti with my overpowered magic and potion-guzzling :daydreaming:

    I just can't get over how similar they are! So many theists in this thread are getting all like, "the facts contradict my religion?! DESTROY THE KNOWLEDGE!" It's just what the Tribunal Temple would do! :mmm:

    Thank you though, you've given me an excuse to start playing it again.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    Does anyone else get a bit nostalgic when reading these posts?

    All the frantic angry theists posting here (not all of the theists here fall under that category, but most do) is so reminiscent of Morrowind's Tribunal Temple! For those who haven't played Morrowind they're a militarised religion which works hard to suppress all knowledge of the rather nasty truth behind the tribunal's ascension to godhood by banning books and kidnapping "heretics" then locking them in a giant rock which floats in midair and torturing them until they change their opinions or die. It's really taking me back to my days of playing as a Telvanni mage-lord and blasting apart scribs and kagouti with my overpowered magic and potion-guzzling :daydreaming:

    I just can't get over how similar they are! So many theists in this thread are getting all like, "the facts contradict my religion?! DESTROY THE KNOWLEDGE!" It's just what the Tribunal Temple would do! :mmm:

    Thank you though, you've given me an excuse to start playing it again.
    I've never played it, but I wonder what these theists would do, even the ones who sometimes use science when it suits them, if they were given access to all the evidence gathered that we have put forward throughout this thread, some kind of explosives/highly flammable chemicals and 5 minutes when no one was watching? Hmmm.

    This thread is like:

    "We don't really know anything"

    "Er, we do"

    "You don't understand it"

    "Please stop telling what what I do and do not understand"

    "But the scientists are arguing!"

    "...?"

    "You have to have faith"

    "Er sorry how is this relevant to a science discussion?"

    "Because God is outside of time and space and ..."

    "...And ducking behind a science-impenetrable parapet of linguistics, ok, I think I'll save my energy."
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    (Original post by leavingthecity)
    the ones who sometimes use science when it suits them,
    It never ceases to amaze me that these people depend in their day-to-day lives on technological items like TVs and phones, food production techniques and medicines that rely completely and utterly on scientific theories they dismiss as "not proven" in favour of believing the nonsense they find in their superstitious tracts.
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    I know this is a sepeate topic, but out of curiosity, what, in your opinion, would disprove the existence of God? Also, in your opinion what would prove it?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    It never ceases to amaze me that these people depend in their day-to-day lives on technological items like TVs and phones, food production techniques and medicines that rely completely and utterly on scientific theories they dismiss as "not proven" in favour of believing the nonsense they find in their superstitious tracts.
    And how about the ones who are "all for science" but when science explains the wonderful complexities of our universe, they call that complexity - God!

    *brain splatters all over the walls*
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    (Original post by Rtdsv)
    I know this is a sepeate topic, but out of curiosity, what, in your opinion, would disprove the existence of God? Also, in your opinion what would prove it?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yes, sorry, this is the kind of question that needs to be asked to keep the discussion on track!

    It's a struggle to think where God could possibly be found in the 21st century apart from outside of our universe. And why should there even be anything outside of our universe anyway?

    We'd maybe have to observe a complete breakdown of the laws of classical mechanics in some everyday situation where God has supposedly intervened where there can be no physical explanation for it happening, literally none.

    To disprove God, nothing so radical, scientists just need to keep doing what there doing and it'll come around quite naturally.
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    (Original post by leavingthecity)
    Yes, sorry, this is the kind of question that needs to be asked to keep the discussion on track!

    It's a struggle to think where God could possibly be found in the 21st century apart from outside of our universe. And why should there even be anything outside of our universe anyway?

    We'd maybe have to observe a complete breakdown of the laws of classical mechanics in some everyday situation where God has supposedly intervened where there can be no physical explanation for it happening, literally none.

    To disprove God, nothing so radical, scientists just need to keep doing what there doing and it'll come around quite naturally.
    Thanks for the answer.

    So simply, one must give adequate examples of situations in which science cannot explain? And for the latter, carrying on proving things with science.

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    (Original post by Rtdsv)
    Thanks for the answer.

    So simply, one must give adequate examples of situations in which science cannot explain? And for the latter, carrying on proving things with science.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    no. just because science cannot yet answer a question, that does not automatically mean that god did it. you have to prove that god did it
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    (Original post by mangala)
    no. just because science cannot yet answer a question, that does not automatically mean that god did it. you have to prove that god did it
    Help me think of a situation that would cause me to think "hmmm well maybe..."

    I'm struggling, you can tell.
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    (Original post by leavingthecity)
    Help me think of a situation that would cause me to think "hmmm well maybe..."

    I'm struggling, you can tell.
    i heard a good one before about how the mind both exists and doesn't, if you understand what i mean. that's probably the hardest thing for science to explain, but just because it's a difficult thing to get your head around doesn't mean god must have created it
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    (Original post by mangala)
    i heard a good one before about how the mind both exists and doesn't, if you understand what i mean. that's probably the hardest thing for science to explain, but just because it's a difficult thing to get your head around doesn't mean god must have created it
    I personally see no reason why the mind and consciousness cannot arise from a system of electrical impulses and chemical reactions within the brain. It's maybe not so nice a thought to have but I would say that even a mothers love for her child is simply this played out. I would expect most people to disagree with this, even if they are/appear pro science. Like everyone I try to discuss this with has told me to shut up...
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    (Original post by mangala)
    no. just because science cannot yet answer a question, that does not automatically mean that god did it. you have to prove that god did it
    How could you prove that God did something when the other is persistent in saying it has to be from something other than God and results in waiting until theres a scientific explanation even if there isnt one?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
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