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    (Original post by mangala)
    scientific, logical evidence which points towards the existence of god

    convert me from atheism

    I think it is like a never ending triangle.

    Atheists are at one point, Christians at another and other world faiths at the third.

    Atheists are on a mission to de-convert those they think are on the wrong path, ie not God as everything is explainable through science.

    Christians are sharing their belief in God but realise an Atheist will not recognise the person of God through them, unless their hearts are softened, because the bible says for you to seek and find, not others to seek on your behalf. Christians believe science and God go together.

    Other world faiths have their own beliefs, some want to convert you because of their own after life fears, others will just live their faith and enjoy you exploring them ie Buddhists.
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    There is none, any evidence one could muster up to prove god could also be used to prove dragons or unicorns.
    Not true. The reasoning could be applied to dragons and unicorns but if there were evidence (which of course there isn't) e.g. God popping his head from out of the clouds and saying 'hello!' that would only apply to God.
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    That's all very well and good, but to state that the big bang just came to be and a cause is unnecessary as time didn't exist before it, is almost as big an act of faith as believing in god.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Like I said, to us it is
    It's just that you shouldn't use the word 'proof' then - in English, that means categorically true beyond doubt and the most common use is in science. You aren't talking about a scientific proof, you are talking about the beliefs people grew up with in a culture that derives faith from a rather dubious early medieval scripture.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Like I said, to us it is
    What, so you just blindly believe everything you read? Somehow the Quran is of more merit than other texts by virtue of what you're told to believe in and blindly follow?
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    I think it is like a never ending triangle.

    Atheists are at one point, Christians at another and other world faiths at the third.

    Atheists are on a mission to de-convert those they think are on the wrong path, ie not God as everything is explainable through science.

    Christians are sharing their belief in God but realise an Atheist will not recognise the person of God through them, unless their hearts are softened, because the bible says for you to seek and find, not others to seek on your behalf. Christians believe science and God go together.

    Other world faiths have their own beliefs, some want to convert you because of their own after life fears, others will just live their faith and enjoy you exploring them ie Buddhists.
    I have enboldened what I think is the most ridiculous part of your post. Every other week someone hands me a leaflet asking me if I've 'found Jesus', No one's ever handed me one declaring that there is no God. When a baby is born it has no notion of any gods (and is therefore an 'atheist'), but it certainly doesn't get up an start 'de-converting' people.

    Also what's with this strange metaphor that puts Christianity on this pillar and lumps all other religions together. It's no better than any of the others.
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    (Original post by louissmith501)
    Time is a real thing independent of humans, just like its twin space, (hence space-time) the confusion arises because Time is independent of us yet is relative to us due to distortion in space.

    If you were to say walk around a black hole in ten minutes, if you return to Earth you'll find that ten years have passed and not ten minutes! This is because of ones perspective of time and it's a very weird thing, Einstein put it best:
    "Kissing a pretty girl on a sunny bench for a minute feels like a second, putting your hand on a hot stove for one second feels like minute"

    The Big Bang was an expression of that beginning of time. There was no before the Big Bang because it is like saying that there is a north norther than the North Pole, there is none! You have reached the end point, and to most physicists time literally began with the Big Bang, not after but with it.
    That's all very well and good, but to state that the big bang just came to be and a cause is unnecessary as time didn't exist before it, is almost as big an act of faith as believing in god.
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    (Original post by FrostyLemon)
    That's all very well and good, but to state that the big bang just came to be and a cause is unnecessary as time didn't exist before it, is almost as big an act of faith as believing in god.
    Well in this instance I tend to believe it is more reasonable in the application of Occam's razor. The Big Bang is proven to most scientists as the beginning of time, this is not an extension of the model but in the very nature of the model. Following Occam's razor it is more logical to believe that this assumption is the beginning of time rather than having to follow two assumptions and say that the Big Bang was the beginning of time and there is also an unproven supernatural deity that caused it as well and is somehow uncaused.

    You can say it is a leap of faith, but I find that to be an exaggeration in my viewpoint and most scientists as well, I certainly would say that it is a much smaller leap than invoking the supernatural over the simpler natural cause.

    In simply terms I think it requires more of a change in rational perspective than a leap of faith, but that's my two cents.
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    Science can't prove god but you can use science to suggest God in a completely subjective way. You arguements will convince some in a completely valid way and yet those same arguements will not convince others who's dissatisfaction is also completely valid.
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    What's the scientific evidence for the existence of Julius Caesar?
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    (Original post by mangala)
    scientific, logical evidence which points towards the existence of god

    convert me from atheism
    Purely oxymoronic. The two are like opposites (Science and Religion). If there was SCIENTIFIC evidence that pointed to the EXISTENCE OF GOD, our minds would be blown. I'm talking about empirical evidence by the way.
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    To conclude my beliefs about the argument of causation.

    1) It isn't a good argument for the existence of God. The Big Bang model is a perfectly reasonable answer to the origins of the universe.
    2) This isn't to say God didn't cause it, but it takes an extra bit of unproven faith to believe in this notion, a belief that is reduced with Occam's razor.
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    Absolutely and unequivocally none.
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    (Original post by mangala)
    scientific, logical evidence which points towards the existence of god

    convert me from atheism
    No evidence found.

    Also, what if there would be an evidence of god existence. What would you do? Will you just start praying? I wonder what for. Because surely not for making us what we are now.

    Even if there is so-called god. Will you do everything he says?

    I'm sure you don't, unless you like to live that way.

    We define our own path.

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    (Original post by mangala)
    yeah but "experiences" have no scientific merit or way of proving their validity. i've prayed and nothing has happened, if god wanted me to believe in him why isn't he showing me he exists?
    the Almighty is not like a genie who pops out of a lamp when you rub it.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    the Almighty is not like a genie who pops out of a lamp when you rub it.
    Stop calling the Almighty "it".
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Stop calling the Almighty "it".
    bear™ rubs his mouse and Fullofsurprises pops out :ahee:
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    Out of curiousity what does (SAW) mean? I've seen pbuh plenty of times which I know means "Peace Be Upon Him", I've never seen SAW before.
    It means sall alahu wa alihi. basically the same as peace be upon him i think
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    (Original post by the bear)
    bear™ rubs his mouse and Fullofsurprises pops out :ahee:
    The Genius of the Fullofsurprises inhabits all things. To Know her is to, well, frankly, love her.
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    Personally, I have been through far too many experiences, which have all in all confirmed my belief in a greater deity. I believe its more or less the same for the rest of the people that believe in God too.
    2ddep6u
 
 
 
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