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Surgery that could allow trans women to have children of their own...

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Original post by Blue_Mason
I do not see in why a trans woman should be given the right to conceive, as it goes against nature


No it doesn't.

If anything it is making us better at propagating the species you numpty.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Until you can provide evidence for God's existence and that he actually cares about this then your point's moot. You're also going against the doctrine of free will, where people have the right to choose whatever they want to do, including altering their own bodies.

The "against nature" argument is flawed because things in our everyday life are unnatural such as clothes, phones, the computer you're using to type this, houses etc. So if you want to be a true part of nature then go off and live naked in a forest somewhere..


I'm just gonna intervene and say that it's unfair for you to ask someone to prove their religion to you. Nobody is trying to force you to become religious, you should just respect other people's views in regard to this. It is pretty controversial after all.
Original post by cherryred90s
It's not really the same as a kidney or a liver because you can only get a uterus from a woman.

Unless for a relative, I don't think many women would 'donate' their uterus. Perhaps post menopausal women would be more inclined to.

I'd rather be a surrogate. In a way, this is donating my uterus without enduring surgery or affecting my fertility.


Hence why I said female.

I'd be totally up for donating my uterus, i hate and it causes dysphoria. Win/win for all trans*people.

Just because you'd rather be a surrogate doesn't mean that woman wanting a child wants a surrogate, they'd probably have surrogacy as their last and final option.
Original post by cherryred90s
I'm just gonna intervene and say that it's unfair for you to ask someone to prove their religion to you. Nobody is trying to force you to become religious, you should just respect other people's views in regard to this. It is pretty controversial after all.


Not really, she was trying to back up her argument by using God as an excuse (and shooting herself in the foot by negating free will) so the least one can expect is the person in question to back up their argument.

If they can't then this reason is no more valid than saying "the invisible, pink dragon is against it so we shouldn't do it".
Original post by cherryred90s
Would be very insulting


Hey in my book people can do whatever they please as long as it doesn't harm others, but I do struggle a bit with the notion that you can pick and choose elements of a gender by what you see of members of that gender. You may believe you're feeling this completely by yourself, but are you really? How can someone born a man know what it feels like to be a woman or a woman born a man know what it's like to be a man?
Original post by Butternuts96
Yes. That's gonna happen FOR SURE. After hearing the news that trans women may be able to give birth, ALL the people who are against trans and gay stuff will change their minds and be loving and accepting of trans culture, amirite?


Never said I expected everyone to suddenly start accepting transgenders? I am just hoping for less hate because we are all humans after all :h:
Original post by LoveTheDivergent
Hence why I said female.

I'd be totally up for donating my uterus, i hate and it causes dysphoria. Win/win for all trans*people.

Just because you'd rather be a surrogate doesn't mean that woman wanting a child wants a surrogate, they'd probably have surrogacy as their last and final option.


I think surrogacy would still remain a popular option. It's not as invasive or dangerous and is cost effective. In addition, with surrogacy, the trans individual has the opportunity to have a child that is biologically theirs.
Original post by littlenorthernlass
It might not matter to you, but, as far as I know, every single child on this earth so far has been born through a biological mother. These children will not have had that, so that sets them apart from every other child in history and they just might be a bit bothered by that and might wish they had a, err, 'real' mum, if I can say that. They don't even get the choice. They've had that human feature/fact/ of life taken away from them. I think it's just selfish for people to not care about that.


I think you are coming from the right place but no one gives consent to be born, ever. What about children who were conceived by parents who had a genetic defect that gave them something like cystic fibrosis? I sometimes wish I had never been "made". Life is inherently horrible in a lot of ways when we make a baby we make this thing that is going to to get old and die :-/

I think your point is something to be considered but considering how consent in the whole being made is routinely violated I don't think that is grounds to not go down this route for trans people. If it became more normal these children will become more accepted. It's like how bastards are not really held in stigma any more compared to one human life time ago. Interracial families are entirely normal now in the UK as another example. I imagine it will be the same with gay parents eventually. Who knows? Maybe trans parents having biological babies as well.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Not really, she was trying to back up her argument by using God as an excuse (and shooting herself in the foot by negating free will) so the least one can expect is the person in question to back up their argument.

If they can't then this reason is no more valid than saying "the invisible, pink dragon is against it so we shouldn't do it".


I didn't read your conversation with her tbh, I just saw your comment asking her to prove it.
We have free will yes, so people can choose to believe in Christ or any other God if they want to.
If someone wants to believe in an 'invisible pink dragon' then so be it. Who cares? That's their belief, not yours
Original post by cherryred90s
I didn't read your conversation with her tbh, I just saw your comment asking her to prove it.
We have free will yes, so people can choose to believe in Christ or any other God if they want to.
If someone wants to believe in an 'invisible pink dragon' then so be it. Who cares? That's their belief, not yours


I'm not sure what the relevance of your post is? I didn't say it's my belief or that they can't believe in it, but if someone posts their belief in order to justify something then I have every right to question it.
I only question how many women are realistically going to give up their uterus' for someone else. Where are they going to get them? Organ donors? Also I question how the anti-rejection drugs may affect the fertility of the uterus.

I wouldn't want this to be an NHS process though because there are more important life-saving surgeries that should take precedence. It's also not a necessary surgery. Not all trans women will want children so unless they want a child they shouldn't have this surgery as a part of gender reassignment.

Until we know the success rates I am very sceptical of this process working in a reasonable time frame. It could take a very long time if at all for the person to become pregnant and even then, whether they could carry a child to term may be a concern.

I feel that couples who've had multiple courses of IVF should be prioritised though, because it may be their last chance to have a child whereas a younger trans person has more time to do so.

It's a big step for gender reassignment and there's a lot to consider on the matter. I reserve true judgement until more data is available.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
I'm not sure what the relevance of your post is? I didn't say it's my belief or that they can't believe in it, but if someone posts their belief in order to justify something then I have every right to question it.


That's the thing, it doesn't need to be justified to you. It's fine to ask questions if you're genuinely interested but that's not what you're doing.
You're questioning it because you don't believe in it. Whatever evidence she wants to entertain you with will be shot down by you because you don't believe in it. It's pointless to ask someone to provide evidence of something you know you will disprove of, and especially since you brought up free will. It's our free will to believe, it's your free will to not. You asked why she doesn't agree with trans and its because of her religion. You agree with trans because you're not religious. Both fine. What else is there to question?
Original post by cherryred90s
That's the thing, it doesn't need to be justified to you. It's fine to ask questions if you're genuinely interested but that's not what you're doing.
You're questioning it because you don't believe in it. Whatever evidence she wants to entertain you with will be shot down by you because you don't believe in it. It's pointless to ask someone to provide evidence of something you know you will disprove of, and especially since you brought up free will. It's our free will to believe, it's your free will to not. You asked why she doesn't agree with trans and its because of her religion. You agree with trans because you're not religious. Both fine. What else is there to question?


It does. I repeat, if she makes a point then I have every right to question it, regardless of whether that point is to do with politics, economics or religion.
Original post by cherryred90s
Would be very insulting


What a childish stance to take.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
It does. I repeat, if she makes a point then I have every right to question it, regardless of whether that point is to do with politics, economics or religion.


There's no getting through to you.
She made her point: she disagrees with it.
Her Reason: she is religious and therefore believes that doing so would be tampering with Gods work. She believes that God made us the way we are for a reason and that altering his work in such a way is wrong.
There's nothing more to question. You've no right to ask her to prove her religion to you, just like she'd have no right to tell you that you'll go to hell for not believing.
Original post by cherryred90s
There's no getting through to you.


I think the same could be said for you.

She made her point: she disagrees with it.
Her Reason: she is religious and therefore believes that doing so would be tampering with Gods work. She believes that God made us the way we are for a reason and that altering his work in such a way is wrong.


I know this is what she said...

There's nothing more to question. You've no right to ask her to prove her religion to you, just like she'd have no right to tell you that you'll go to hell for not believing.


Yes there is and I have every right to ask her to justify her claim.
Original post by SophieSmall
What a childish stance to take.


You've already said this & I don't care what you think. That is how I feel.
What is the point in asking for people's opinions?
Original post by cherryred90s
You've already said this & I don't care what you think. That is how I feel.
What is the point in asking for people's opinions?


I didn't ask you to care what I think, and if you can say how you feel I also have every right to criticise those opinions. And criticise them I will when they're as childish and petty as that.
Original post by Trapz99
This is actually horrendous. Only real women (women who were born with female reproductive organs) should be able to have children. That is what God intended. If you disagree with that then you are deluded imo

How can you possibly know what God intends? If there is a God, he surely wants us to lead the happiest life we can
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
I think the same could be said for you.



I know this is what she said...



Yes there is and I have every right to ask her to justify her claim.


She justified her claim by explaining her belief! Her belief is the reason she disagrees. Maybe she feels Gods prescence when she prays, maybe she believes that he has answered her prayers, maybe she believes that he has shown her the right way to live a good moral life, maybe she feels that believing in God will guarantee her a place in heaven. Everyone has different reasons for why they believe, most of these reasons are personal and that is why it's unfair for you to ask her to 'prove it', especially to a non-believer who probably wouldn't understand where she's coming from anyway.

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