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Surgery that could allow trans women to have children of their own... Watch

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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I think the same could be said for you.



    I know this is what she said...



    Yes there is and I have every right to ask her to justify her claim.
    She justified her claim by explaining her belief! Her belief is the reason she disagrees. Maybe she feels Gods prescence when she prays, maybe she believes that he has answered her prayers, maybe she believes that he has shown her the right way to live a good moral life, maybe she feels that believing in God will guarantee her a place in heaven. Everyone has different reasons for why they believe, most of these reasons are personal and that is why it's unfair for you to ask her to 'prove it', especially to a non-believer who probably wouldn't understand where she's coming from anyway.
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    (Original post by SophieSmall)
    I didn't ask you to care what I think, and if you can say how you feel I also have every right to criticise those opinions. And criticise them I will when they're as childish and petty as that.
    Thats great, because I don't care.
    Please refrain from quoting me again
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She justified her claim by explaining her belief! Her belief is the reason she disagrees. Maybe she feels Gods prescence when she prays, maybe she believes that he has answered her prayers, maybe she believes that he has shown her the right way to live a good moral life, maybe she feels that believing in God will guarantee her a place in heaven. Everyone has different reasons for why they believe, most of these reasons are personal and that is why it's unfair for you to ask her to 'prove it', especially to a non-believer who probably wouldn't understand where she's coming from anyway.
    She did not justify her claim. Simply saying it goes against God isn't an argument when she doesn't have evidence for this God.

    If your aim is to get me to not question or criticise her post then I'm afraid you're wasting your breath and I will not refrain from doing so.
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    For those pointing out that this goes against God's will. I do have a genuine query on that as if that line of "logic" works then...

    Treating illness with medication is against God's will. God created the likes of Ebola for whatever reason best known to it, we'll throw a bone and say population control. You then trying to come up with artificial means to support your immune system goes against God's plan. It gave you the immune system you have, it created the virus which infects you. If it's will is that only 12% of people recover from the disease naturally as an example. if you are among the 88% who cannot fight it off without medication to artificially destroy the virus, you have surely interfered with it's plan?

    Same can be said for any medical procedure really where the cause of the damage is natural occurrence (and not say stabbing yourself). Cancer for example, for whatever reason, God made it so that unlike the Naked Mole Rat, we do not possess the genes required to prevent cancer nor the superior ribosomes which are able to create almost 100% error-free proteins, cancer is in fact rather common among our species. This must surely have been a plan since God created both species, so cancer research such as the new breakthrough treatment of taking immune cells out of our body, genetically modifying them to be able to fight blood cancer, and cycling them back into the blood, is just as sinful (or what ever word one uses to go against God's wishes) as giving someone a uterus who would not normally have one. The same would be true if we tried to use research from the Naked Mole Rat to apply to us, as is also being done in with things like Zebra fish and Axolotl's with ability to re-grow organs/limbs.

    Furthermore with the idea posted earlier that God "knit's us" a certain way and changing gender goes against this. Would this not be the same when a child is born with a congenital illness? For example a child born with Spina Bifida has, for whatever reason God wills it, been designed to have it's spinal cord exposed and not surrounded by bone/membrane. When we attempt to treat it (to a degree, since the "damage" cannot be cured) by putting in a shunt to help drain the excess cerebrospinal fluid, we are directly interfering with God's plan for this individual, which presumably is death, although you might question why that short life was God's plan, who are we to understand the machinations of a God.

    Unless of course improving on God's design is okay sometimes, but not others, in which case I'd be interested to read the medical texts this deity has produced to explain approved and disapproved procedures.

    As for the topic at hand. My main query on this would how can it work? There is more to growing a child within your body than the vessel that is the uterus, you have complex hormone changes at different stages of pregnancy which would need to be got just right and I'd have thought other physiological changes occur which could not be replicated in a male body, even if that male had been taking hormones to give them some feminine traits.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    She did not justify her claim. Simply saying it goes against God isn't an argument when she doesn't have evidence for this God.

    If your aim is to get me to not question or criticise her post then I'm afraid you're wasting your breath and I will not refrain from doing so.
    This 'evidence' comes in the form of the several things I previously stated to you. Just because you disagree with them does not make them untrue, that's something you cannot comprehend.
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    (Original post by Blue_Mason)
    I do not see in why a trans woman should be given the right to conceive, as it goes against nature
    Please remember that next time you get sick, so we can deny you the medicine so you can die, just like NATURE intended. Remember that the next time you want to eat meat, so don't cook it and get a parasitic infection, just like NATURE intended. Remember that next time you want to turn on your PC, then don't, because NATURE didn't intend for you to have a PC. Remember that next time you want to use toiler paper, then don't, because NATURE didn't intend for you to use it. Remember that next time you need dental treatment, then don't get it since that's the way NATURE intended.

    Nature intended us to do a lot of things and not to do a lot of things, but since we're highly functioning creatures with extremely well-developed brains and sharp reasoning skills, we can go against nature's intentions and improve our lives towards a better, brighter tomorrow. Meanwhile, you can abandon all the marvels of modern technology and society and move to the Amazonian rain-forest, to live and quickly die, just like nature intended.
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    (Original post by LoveTheDivergent)
    This is such a good idea! As a trans* person myself I understand how severe dysphoria can be and I have friends that are trans*women. Even though you could have a surrogate its not the same as carrying your own child which can definitely bring a family together. Anyways, there really shouldn't be too much of a problem hormones wise if the person is on HRT at the time. It shouldn't really matter, if a woman wants to carry their own child then let them.
    But would it really be their own child? How will they produce the egg for fertilisation? Is this not just a very complicated, dangerous and probably prohibitively expensive form of surrogacy since the transwoman would be carrying someone else's child?
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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    But would it really be their own child? How will they produce the egg for fertilisation? Is this not just a very complicated, dangerous and probably prohibitively expensive form of surrogacy since the transwoman would be carrying someone else's child?

    Well I suppose it isn't really any different than a woman who cannot make use of her own eggs for what ever reason using a donated egg and her husbands sperm via IFV. Though in this case the baby could be 50% theirs, since they could use their own sperm (preserved if they were able to get it before becoming female) and a donor egg, or just use their male partners.
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    (Original post by DedicatedWizard)
    Never said I expected everyone to suddenly start accepting transgenders? I am just hoping for less hate because we are all humans after all
    I agree. Off topic though related, there was the incident quite recently of the transgender prisoner put in with given gender prisoners who committed suicide. Irrespective of how anyone feels about uterus transplants, if you try and put yourself into the position of someone who feels trapped in the wrong body, how could you not sympathise with them. they must all suffer their own private hell.
    I'm not sure how I feel about the transplant thing but I'm not going to lose sleep over it because I'm not convinced it could be possible because there would be structural - for want of a better word - issues as to how a healthy baby can grown in a diaphragm not designed for it. I wouldn't object on moral or ethical grounds because anyone prepared to go to those lengths will in all probability be devoted and caring parents and at the end of the day that is the most important bit. But.... Here I will sound like I'm contradicting myself ..... We can't all get everything we want. Life isn't fair and if these couples are so desperate to have a child why not adopt? If gay couple can foster and adopt I dont see why transgender couples can't too. Can they? I'm not sure tbh.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    This 'evidence' comes in the form of the several things I previously stated to you. Just because you disagree with them does not make them untrue, that's something you cannot comprehend.
    You have provided no such evidence and neither has she. Resorting to insults by trying to belittle my mental faculties does you no favours. And for the record, I have been a believer so I understand the position sublimely.
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    (Original post by joey11223)
    For those pointing out that this goes against God's will. I do have a genuine query on that as if that line of "logic" works then...

    Treating illness with medication is against God's will. God created the likes of Ebola for whatever reason best known to it, we'll throw a bone and say population control. You then trying to come up with artificial means to support your immune system goes against God's plan. It gave you the immune system you have, it created the virus which infects you. If it's will is that only 12% of people recover from the disease naturally as an example. if you are among the 88% who cannot fight it off without medication to artificially destroy the virus, you have surely interfered with it's plan?

    Same can be said for any medical procedure really where the cause of the damage is natural occurrence (and not say stabbing yourself). Cancer for example, for whatever reason, God made it so that unlike the Naked Mole Rat, we do not possess the genes required to prevent cancer nor the superior ribosomes which are able to create almost 100% error-free proteins, cancer is in fact rather common among our species. This must surely have been a plan since God created both species, so cancer research such as the new breakthrough treatment of taking immune cells out of our body, genetically modifying them to be able to fight blood cancer, and cycling them back into the blood, is just as sinful (or what ever word one uses to go against God's wishes) as giving someone a uterus who would not normally have one. The same would be true if we tried to use research from the Naked Mole Rat to apply to us, as is also being done in with things like Zebra fish and Axolotl's with ability to re-grow organs/limbs.

    Furthermore with the idea posted earlier that God "knit's us" a certain way and changing gender goes against this. Would this not be the same when a child is born with a congenital illness? For example a child born with Spina Bifida has, for whatever reason God wills it, been designed to have it's spinal cord exposed and not surrounded by bone/membrane. When we attempt to treat it (to a degree, since the "damage" cannot be cured) by putting in a shunt to help drain the excess cerebrospinal fluid, we are directly interfering with God's plan for this individual, which presumably is death, although you might question why that short life was God's plan, who are we to understand the machinations of a God.

    Unless of course improving on God's design is okay sometimes, but not others, in which case I'd be interested to read the medical texts this deity has produced to explain approved and disapproved procedures.

    As for the topic at hand. My main query on this would how can it work? There is more to growing a child within your body than the vessel that is the uterus, you have complex hormone changes at different stages of pregnancy which would need to be got just right and I'd have thought other physiological changes occur which could not be replicated in a male body, even if that male had been taking hormones to give them some feminine traits.
    Your larger point is brilliant as it highlights the glaring hypocrisy and double standards about other instances where meddling and interfering with nature poses no problem..
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    (Original post by DedicatedWizard)
    Never said I expected everyone to suddenly start accepting transgenders? I am just hoping for less hate because we are all humans after all
    Yeah but based on what statistic or observation do you think that people against trans would change their minds when knowing that trans women can now give birth? That's my question.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    You have provided no such evidence and neither has she. Resorting to insults by trying to belittle my mental faculties does you no favours. And for the record, I have been a believer so I understand the position sublimely.
    What evidence do I need to provide to you? None.
    I have stated reasons why someone believes in God. That is 'proof' enough & something that you aren't really entitled to know.
    If you understand the position, why are you questioning it!?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Your larger point is brilliant as it highlights the glaring hypocrisy and double standards about other instances where meddling and interfering with nature poses no problem..
    Nah man hold off, wait until the medical scripture I asked for is revealed, I'm sure it is in fact available.

    "For thou shalt not use the radiating energy of the ionization of the atoms to kill thine cells which betray thyself with uncontrolled replications. But let it be known, if thy does make useth of the chemical agents of which there is ability to destroy the cells which exhibit rapid replication, of which we speaketh of the agents of Alkylating, but not only of these, but of all the agents, it is good in the eyes of the Lord."

    Amen.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    What evidence do I need to provide to you? None.
    I have stated reasons why someone believes in God. That is 'proof' enough & something that you aren't really entitled to know.
    If you understand the position, why are you questioning it!?
    Totally irrelevant to the discussion. The topic isn't the reasons why someone believes in God. She used God as a justification and I questioned it as I have every right to. Once again, you're wasting your breath by trying to get me not to because it won't happen.
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    How many children are in foster care?! Without loving parents. We do not need more children in this world when we can't care for the ones we already have.


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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Totally irrelevant to the discussion. The topic isn't the reasons why someone believes in God. She used God as a justification and I questioned it as I have every right to. Once again, you're wasting your breath by trying to get me not to because it won't happen.
    The reasons a person believes in God is proof enough that he is real to her. That is the point. No need for you to further question.
    I am done with discussing this with you anyway since you can't seem to understand.
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    Lol so does that mean we're getting a new Jenner?

    But this is really awesome! Technology is amazing
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    (Original post by serah.exe)
    Good for them, allows then to live a life they want to live.

    Lol at the religious people who always talk about peace, yet seem aggressive whenever topics like this appears. What happened to all the "love and respect everyone" and "only God can judge" stuff? :lol:
    It is true that only he can judge but it really is not judging when you are saying what God has forbidden. People use that only God can judge me because they are wrong and have no where else to hide
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    Is this really possible? Technology might temporarily substitute anything but it won't last forever nor have the same effect as those originally created.
 
 
 
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