What Happens after Med School - Internationals (THOUGHTS)

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Michael9695
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Hi there guys,

Im an international applicant (NZ) who received interviews for SGUL (international medicine programme)/birmingham. Recently I have put a lot of thought about what would happen to me if I was to graduate from these schools as an international and how hard it is for me to find internship and gain registration?

From my understanding you do a foundation year 1 and 2 after you graduate and usually there is no problem getting into these. However after foundation year 2 you have to apply for internship at a hospital which becomes a huge problem for an international as I'm ranked at a lower priority then domestic graduates and already there is a surge in the number of domestic graduates and a lack of space for internship?

If anyone could add their opinions or what they know about international students gaining internship/registration as a doctor in the UK it would be really helpful!

Thanks guys

TL;DR are my chances for gaining registration to practice in the UK screwed If I'm an international?
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thenextchemist
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(Original post by Michael9695)
Hi there guys,

Im an international applicant (NZ) who received interviews for SGUL (international medicine programme)/birmingham. Recently I have put a lot of thought about what would happen to me if I was to graduate from these schools as an international and how hard it is for me to find internship and gain registration?

From my understanding you do a foundation year 1 and 2 after you graduate and usually there is no problem getting into these. However after foundation year 2 you have to apply for internship at a hospital which becomes a huge problem for an international as I'm ranked at a lower priority then domestic graduates and already there is a surge in the number of domestic graduates and a lack of space for internship?

If anyone could add their opinions or what they know about international students gaining internship/registration as a doctor in the UK it would be really helpful!

Thanks guys

TL;DR are my chances for gaining registration to practice in the UK screwed If I'm an international?
I believe once you get into medical school in the UK, you're on the same level as everyone else so after med school, you do two years as a foundation doctor, then you apply for a speciality or become a GP. As far as I'm aware, because you're an international student studying in the UK and will eventually be working in the UK, you've got the same chances as everyone else.
However, if you do go back to New Zealand with you're medical degree, there may be a problem..


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MonteCristo
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I also don't think there will be a problem with you working in the UK after graduation. You would be subject to various work visa rules but, realistically, they are going to be so short on doctors in a few years time that they will probably be begging you to stay at that point. I certainly have friends with non-EU passports (e.g. India, Singapore) who have progressed into training jobs without difficulty. I believe the selection processes are identical.

I presume you could also return to NZ later on as lots of UK graduates do exactly that. I don't know whether the NZ system penalises people who studied outside the country when it comes to allocating the best training jobs.

The real question is why do you want to come to the UK in the first place? Most doctors are very unhappy here at the moment and many are desperate to get out and move to Australia or NZ... A lot of things can change in 6+ years but a NZ passport and a UK medical degree ought to give you plenty of options in terms of places to work.
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Michael9695
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(Original post by Bloom77)
I believe once you get into medical school in the UK, you're on the same level as everyone else so after med school, you do two years as a foundation doctor, then you apply for a speciality or become a GP. As far as I'm aware, because you're an international student studying in the UK and will eventually be working in the UK, you've got the same chances as everyone else.
However, if you do go back to New Zealand with you're medical degree, there may be a problem..


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So from what you're saying is that there is no intern year after FY1 and FY2 and it's a straight progression into registration after those 2 years?
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Michael9695
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(Original post by MonteCristo)
I also don't think there will be a problem with you working in the UK after graduation. You would be subject to various work visa rules but, realistically, they are going to be so short on doctors in a few years time that they will probably be begging you to stay at that point. I certainly have friends with non-EU passports (e.g. India, Singapore) who have progressed into training jobs without difficulty. I believe the selection processes are identical.

I presume you could also return to NZ later on as lots of UK graduates do exactly that. I don't know whether the NZ system penalises people who studied outside the country when it comes to allocating the best training jobs.

The real question is why do you want to come to the UK in the first place? Most doctors are very unhappy here at the moment and many are desperate to get out and move to Australia or NZ... A lot of things can change in 6+ years but a NZ passport and a UK medical degree ought to give you plenty of options in terms of places to work.
Hey there, thanks for the insight its quite interesting as I just read from another thread this morning (lost it somewhere I'll try dig it up) that there was a serious concerns for the international graduates but from the replies so far it doesn't seem to be a problem. Furthermore could you expand on what you mean or why you say the doctors in UK are "unhappy" and moving out?

Btw I got a low percentile in the umat (kind of like the oceania version of UKCAT) so was basically eliminated from all the australian med schools
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navarre
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A Kiwi applying for UK med schools with the long-term goal of practising in the UK? Fascinating.
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MonteCristo
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(Original post by Michael9695)
Furthermore could you expand on what you mean or why you say the doctors in UK are "unhappy" and moving out?
It's difficult to know where to start but:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016...n_9208422.html
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-jobs-contract
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ON-THOMAS.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35568628

Basically the Secretary of State for Health has declared war on junior doctors, worsened their terms and conditions, and slashed their pay. In the meantime, we are struggling to deliver effective healthcare despite horrendous rota gaps (50% A&E training places and 33% GP training places unfilled) in a chronically underfunded service. There is a perception of increasing punishment of doctors (by an astonishing array of different bodies) for perceived inadequacies that are almost certainly worsened by system failings. The NHS is a fantastic concept but a monopoly employer and so we are all at the whim of government meddling.

The Secretary of State has little understanding of how health service delivery works and even less insight into that lack of understanding. As a consequence, the situation is likely to worsen for as long as this government remains in office. We have no effective opposition party and so it seems that we will be left with this government for the foreseeable future.

There we go - a two paragraph summary of junior doctor life in the UK. The actual job of being a doctor is great, though, so train here and then join the exodus overseas if things haven't improved!
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thenextchemist
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(Original post by Michael9695)
So from what you're saying is that there is no intern year after FY1 and FY2 and it's a straight progression into registration after those 2 years?
Yes, but there are exams and interviews involved. However, overall, I guess it's straight progression.
During F2 year, doctors can apply for specialist or GP post.


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Wing:)
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Hello. I am also from NZ and I think I will be doing medicine in the UK (most likely) via another route. I am going to Malaysia for the first 2.5 years and do the clinical years in the UK.
I remember I have seen a page saying all applicants got a place for F1. I am sure you will be fine in getting foundation years, and I do not think you will rank lower than the UK citizens for specialist training.
Once you finish you F1, you will have no problems working in NZ and Aussie. I am planning to stay in the UK until I finish F1 and decide where to go later.
Anyway, wish you all the best with your application. Are you doing A levels in the UK?


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axccl389
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I'm in a similar position as you, not from NZ but also an international. I think if we study in the uk we can likely get a foundation place but it's not guaranteed anymore (like it says on the uni medical course webpage) so if someone has to go it'll have to be us first probably even though we pay so much more Anyways are you choosing Birmingham or St Georges? Personally I liked St Georges and firmed it instead of King's because they do USMLE with US clinical years too so it's another option maybe? Getting in US is tough but it'll be easier with St Georges course I guess and it seems to make the student loans easier to pay off I guess hahah
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Michael9695
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(Original post by Wing:))
Hello. I am also from NZ and I think I will be doing medicine in the UK (most likely) via another route. I am going to Malaysia for the first 2.5 years and do the clinical years in the UK.
I remember I have seen a page saying all applicants got a place for F1. I am sure you will be fine in getting foundation years, and I do not think you will rank lower than the UK citizens for specialist training.
Once you finish you F1, you will have no problems working in NZ and Aussie. I am planning to stay in the UK until I finish F1 and decide where to go later.
Anyway, wish you all the best with your application. Are you doing A levels in the UK?


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Hi there

I sat my A levels in New Zealand and achieved 2 A* and 3 A's
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Michael9695
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(Original post by axccl389)
I'm in a similar position as you, not from NZ but also an international. I think if we study in the uk we can likely get a foundation place but it's not guaranteed anymore (like it says on the uni medical course webpage) so if someone has to go it'll have to be us first probably even though we pay so much more Anyways are you choosing Birmingham or St Georges? Personally I liked St Georges and firmed it instead of King's because they do USMLE with US clinical years too so it's another option maybe? Getting in US is tough but it'll be easier with St Georges course I guess and it seems to make the student loans easier to pay off I guess hahah
Haven't given it too much thought as of yet since I have not gone to do the interviews yet (their in March). I'd definitely like to see the actual school environment and the city around it before I'd make a decision on anything. However for now I am slightly leaning towards St Georges as they've offered me a medicine course specifically targeted towards internationals and as you've said, the USMLE offers another option
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Michael9695
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(Original post by navarre)
A Kiwi applying for UK med schools with the long-term goal of practising in the UK? Fascinating.
I'd think of it more as a Kiwi who wishes to go for direct entry med, however got cut out of the picture down in Ocenia due to his low marks in logical reasoning exams however had a chance in the UK due to his above average grades.

In all honesty though, I'd liked to have stayed down in NZ/AUS to study and eventually practice but I wouldn't mind going overseas as medicine really is the only profession I am determined to pursue.
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axccl389
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(Original post by Michael9695)
Haven't given it too much thought as of yet since I have not gone to do the interviews yet (their in March). I'd definitely like to see the actual school environment and the city around it before I'd make a decision on anything. However for now I am slightly leaning towards St Georges as they've offered me a medicine course specifically targeted towards internationals and as you've said, the USMLE offers another option
Good luck with it, the interviewers are quite nice just remember to be confident The university is attached to the teaching hospital and its gorgeous. And yeah one of the biggest reason I chose it over King's is because of the US clinical placement and USMLE which I heard is crazy hard. Anyways all the best to you!
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Jckc123
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All the best fellow internationals!

USA is definitely not easy and you have to fork out quite a large sum overall.
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Wing:)
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(Original post by Michael9695)
I'd think of it more as a Kiwi who wishes to go for direct entry med, however got cut out of the picture down in Ocenia due to his low marks in logical reasoning exams however had a chance in the UK due to his above average grades.

In all honesty though, I'd liked to have stayed down in NZ/AUS to study and eventually practice but I wouldn't mind going overseas as medicine really is the only profession I am determined to pursue.
Omg same here. I did so badly in my UMAT. I don't want to do med in NZ just because of the biomed first year.


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Michael9695
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(Original post by Wing:))
Omg same here. I did so badly in my UMAT. I don't want to do med in NZ just because of the biomes first year.


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amen brother
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prospectivemed56
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(Original post by Michael9695)
So from what you're saying is that there is no intern year after FY1 and FY2 and it's a straight progression into registration after those 2 years?
FY1 *is* your intern year. You get full registration before starting FY2, which is an SHO-level job. However, if people leave, it's usually after finishing the entire foundation year programme.
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suckmycoke
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Current Scarfie here. Always curious when I hear people who haven't managed in one jurisdiction figure that by changing their location/programme, suddenly the gates will fly open. So you did OLY1 in Auckland or HSFY at Otago and screwed your UMAT. Unless you got under 20th percentile your grades can't have been that great or you'd still have gotten in. Do you think they take a lesser caliber of candidate in the UK? If so, why would you want to study there?
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Michael9695
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Havent done first year in uni yet, im straight out of college and my grades were good, umat was crap

(Original post by buraddo)
Current Scarfie here. Always curious when I hear people who haven't managed in one jurisdiction figure that by changing their location/programme, suddenly the gates will fly open. So you did OLY1 in Auckland or HSFY at Otago and screwed your UMAT. Unless you got under 20th percentile your grades can't have been that great or you'd still have gotten in. Do you think they take a lesser caliber of candidate in the UK? If so, why would you want to study there?
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