Oxford Uni Labour Club co-chair resigns over anti-semitism within OULC Watch

GoldenFang
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A very sad day indeed; Alex Chalmers, the co-chair of Oxford University Labour Club, has resigned over the anti-semitic and pro-terrorism tendencies of many within that organisation.

Unfortunately, these views are becoming more common as the hard left swarms into the Labour Party.

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GoldenFang
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Just as shocking, Holocaust denial statements are now appearing on the Labour Party forum. It seems to me that the old political "horseshoe" theory (that the hard left and hard right have more in common with each other than with the centre... see adoration for Putin, anti-semitism, isolationism, anti-Americanism... is becoming truer by the day)

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KimKallstrom
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Well the leader of The Labour Party makes a habit of befriending and brown nosing Holocaust deniers like Ibrahim Hewitt and people who openly despise Jews (not Israelis or "Zionists" but Jews as a whole) like Ra'ed Salah so what do you expect? This Oxford Union Labour Club is merely following the lead....
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username878267
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(Original post by KimKallstrom)
Well the leader of The Labour Party makes a habit of befriending and brown nosing Holocaust deniers like Ibrahim Hewitt and people who openly despise Jews (not Israelis or "Zionists" but Jews as a whole) like Ra'ed Salah so what do you expect? This Oxford Union Labour Club is merely following the lead....
I know, and could you imagine if the Israeli Prime Minsiter for example tried to absolve Hitler and the Nazis of blame for the Holocaust....oh wait.

Could you also imagine if due to bullying within the tory party a young activist committed suicide and the man who caused it was given a promotion by the chairman of your party..oh wait.

Don't seem to remember you hugely condemning those issues.

All racism and antisemitism and bullying is awful, yet you continuously pick and choose and ignore others, the very accusation you so readily throw at others.
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Saoirse:3
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(Original post by GoldenFang)
Just as shocking, Holocaust denial statements are now appearing on the Labour Party forum. It seems to me that the old political "horseshoe" theory (that the hard left and hard right have more in common with each other than with the centre... see adoration for Putin, anti-semitism, isolationism, anti-Americanism... is becoming truer by the day)

Wow. One holocaust denier, who may or may not even be a Labour member, on a forum with 25,000 members. Solid evidence for the Labour Party being a haven of anti-Semitism.
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pol pot noodles
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(Original post by Bornblue)
I know, and could you imagine if the Israeli Prime Minsiter for example tried to absolve Hitler and the Nazis of blame for the Holocaust....oh wait.

Could you also imagine if due to bullying within the tory party a young activist committed suicide and the man who caused it was given a promotion by the chairman of your party..oh wait.

Don't seem to remember you hugely condemning those issues.

All racism and antisemitism and bullying is awful, yet you continuously pick and choose and ignore others, the very accusation you so readily throw at others.
He didn't absolve Hitler and the Nazi's of blame. He claimed Hitler was persuaded to commit the Holocaust by a Palestinian religious leader. That's not absolution in the slightest; it's understanding the motivations behind what happened.

And you've even thrown in a nice does of whataboutism, as if that has any relevance to the topic in discussion. This isn't a thread about racism, bullying and anti-semitism in general, it's about a specific topical news story.
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username878267
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(Original post by pol pot noodles)
He didn't absolve Hitler and the Nazi's of blame. He claimed Hitler was persuaded to commit the Holocaust by a Palestinian religious leader. That's not absolution in the slightest; it's understanding the motivations behind what happened.

And you've even thrown in a nice does of whataboutism, as if that has any relevance to the topic in discussion. This isn't a thread about racism, bullying and anti-semitism in general, it's about a specific topical news story.
Oh yes he did. So much so he was condemned by even the Israeli right and Yad Vashem.

He made out that Hitler didn't want to kill jews, he made out that it was the influence of the Palestinians in a very calculated move which even the Israeli right saw straight through.
Despite the fact that his claim has been thoroughly discredited by almost every credible Holocaust historian, Jewish and non-Jewish alike.
Ergo he reduced the culpability of the Nazis, making out that really it was the influence of the Palestinians.
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Lehoe
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Oh yes he did. So much so he was condemned by even the Israeli right and Yad Vashem.

He made out that Hitler didn't want to kill jews, he made out that it was the influence of the Palestinians in a very calculated move which even the Israeli right saw straight through.
Despite the fact that his claim has been thoroughly discredited by almost every credible Holocaust historian, Jewish and non-Jewish alike.
Ergo he reduced the culpability of the Nazis, making out that really it was the influence of the Palestinians.
Report this troll for off-topic commenting


This discussion is about Labour and Oxford university, not Israel :confused:
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pol pot noodles
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Oh yes he did. So much so he was condemned by even the Israeli right and Yad Vashem.

He made out that Hitler didn't want to kill jews, he made out that it was the influence of the Palestinians in a very calculated move which even the Israeli right saw straight through.
Despite the fact that his claim has been thoroughly discredited by almost every credible Holocaust historian, Jewish and non-Jewish alike.
Ergo he reduced the culpability of the Nazis, making out that really it was the influence of the Palestinians.
How is that absolution from blame of the holocaust? It was indeed a cynical attempt at inciting hatred against Palestinians, but he did not once ever say or imply that the Nazis were not at fault for the holocaust, only that they were persuaded to do it.
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GoldenFang
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(Original post by Bornblue)
I know, and could you imagine if the Israeli Prime Minsiter for example tried to absolve Hitler and the Nazis of blame for the Holocaust....oh wait.
How did Netanyahu absolve Hitler and the Nazis of blame for the Holocaust? That sounds unlikely to me.

And what does it have to do with the racism and anti-semitism amongst the Corbynista?

Could you also imagine if due to bullying within the tory party a young activist committed suicide and the man who caused it was given a promotion by the chairman of your party..oh wait.
Again, what does this have to do with racism and anti-semitism amongst the Corbynista?

Trying to change the subject could be construed as evidence of bad faith in the discussion of anti-semitism, and it is interesting how Corbynista always try to change the subject when anti-semitism comes up
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username878267
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(Original post by pol pot noodles)
How is that absolution from blame of the holocaust? It was indeed a cynical attempt at inciting hatred against Palestinians, but he did not once ever say or imply that the Nazis were not at fault for the holocaust, only that they were persuaded to do it.
Try not to take such a literal interpretation. We broadly agree, that it was a cynical attempt at inciting hatred against the Palestinians which resulted in him unintentionally absolving Hitler of some blame, that it wasn't his idea. Despite the fact his claim has been refuted by Yad Vashem and near enough every credible Holocaust historian.
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username878267
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(Original post by GoldenFang)
How did Netanyahu absolve Hitler and the Nazis of blame for the Holocaust? That sounds unlikely to me.

And what does it have to do with the racism and anti-semitism amongst the Corbynista?



Again, what does this have to do with racism and anti-semitism amongst the Corbynista?

Trying to change the subject could be construed as evidence of bad faith in the discussion of anti-semitism, and it is interesting how Corbynista always try to change the subject when anti-semitism comes up
Netanyahu did actually, by claiming Hitler never wanted to execute the Jews. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525
I'm most certainly not a Corbynista given how I neither voted for him, have announced several times that Gordon Brown was my favorite politician and that I want Corbyn replaced.

I'm centre left of the party, about where Miliband was.
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GoldenFang
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(Original post by Saoirse:3)
Wow. One holocaust denier, who may or may not even be a Labour member, on a forum with 25,000 members.
The fact that these kinds of views even have currency in the Labour Party is a very worrying trend. And it's clearly not just one person, there are numerous anti-semites on the Corbyn wing of the Labour Party

Solid evidence for the Labour Party being a haven of anti-Semitism.
I'm not saying the Labour Party as a whole is. Clearly people like Liz Kendall are not. I'm saying the Corbynista give sanctuary and succour to anti-semites and are constantly praising them, befriending them and sucking up to them all in the name of "peace" (which is ludicrous as they never try to befriend Israelis in the name of peace, nor is some obscure hard left Labour figure sucking up to Hamas actually going to bring about any sort of peace given they have no actual power to bring it about)
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GoldenFang
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Netanyahu did actually, by claiming Hitler never wanted to execute the Jews. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525
Okay I just looked into that. How did he absolve Hitler and the Nazis of responsibility? He's saying the Palestinian Mufti gave him the idea.

If someone gives me an idea about how to rob a bank, and I then go and do it, it wouldn't be absolving me of responsibility for robbing the bank for someone else to point out where I got the idea.

Netanyahu is grotesque, but try to criticise him on things he's actually done.

I'm most certainly not a Corbynista given how I neither voted for him, have announced several times that Gordon Brown was my favorite politician and that I want Corbyn replaced.
My original comment stands. I pointed out Corbynista always try to change the subject when anti-semitism comes up (when they aren't frothing at the mouth accusing the Rothschilds of running the world). I also said that it could be evidence of bad faith to try to change the subject.

Whether you are a Corbynista or no, you do appear to be engaging in whataboutery over a very serious subject. Why would you bring up Netanyahu when someone raises the issue of anti-semitism in the OULC?
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username878267
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(Original post by GoldenFang)
Okay I just looked into that. How did he absolve Hitler and the Nazis of responsibility? He's saying the Palestinian Mufti gave him the idea.

If someone gives me an idea about how to rob a bank, and I then go and do it, it wouldn't be absolving me of responsibility for robbing the bank for someone else to point out where I got the idea.

Netanyahu is grotesque, but try to criticise him on things he's actually done.
He absolves him of some responsibility albeit unintetionally by claiming it was not his idea.
Yet there is absolutely no evidence for this assertion given that almost every credible Holocaust historian, jewish and non-jewish disagrees with him. Even Yad Vashem, the National Holocaust Museum in Israel came out and called BS.

It was an attempt to rewrite history to incite hatred against the Palestinians and in doing so absolved Hitler of some blame, making out he was persuaded into it rather than it being his idea.
My original comment stands. I pointed out Corbynista always try to change the subject when anti-semitism comes up (when they aren't frothing at the mouth accusing the Rothschilds of running the world). I also said that it could be evidence of bad faith to try to change the subject.

Whether you are a Corbynista or no, you do appear to be engaging in whataboutery over a very serious subject. Why would you bring up Netanyahu when someone raises the issue of anti-semitism in the OULC?
Anti-semitism is clearly abhorrent, as a Jewish person I know that all to well.
But to suggest Corbyn is an anti-semite is ludicrous. He's many things but anti-semitic is not one of them.
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GoldenFang
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(Original post by Bornblue)
He absolves him of some responsibility albeit unintetionally by claiming it was not his idea.
How does that absolve them of responsibility?

It was an attempt to rewrite history to incite hatred against the Palestinians
You agree, though, that the Palestinian Imam was a Nazi sympathiser? That he was an ally of the Third Reich?

in doing so absolved Hitler of some blame, making out he was persuaded into it rather than it being his idea.
But how does that absolve him of responsibility? It seems like a reach

But to suggest Corbyn is an anti-semite is ludicrous. He's many things but anti-semitic is not one of them.
I don't agree. An example would be, if someone spends lots of time around homophobes, they publicly praise known homophobes, they are close friends with people who kill LGBT, they defend said homophobes from criticism, then it's very clear that they don't care about LGBT people to the point that they will give support to their enemies. That person is a homphobe, whether they've convinced themselves they're not is irrelevant. Actions are what matters.

The same situation applies to Corbyn's close friendships and business relationships with Holocaust deniers, with organisations that call for the death of Jews, with organisations that have murdered Jewish people simply because they are Jewish.
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username878267
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(Original post by GoldenFang)
How does that absolve them of responsibility?



You agree, though, that the Palestinian Imam was a Nazi sympathiser? That he was an ally of the Third Reich?



But how does that absolve him of responsibility? It seems like a reach

Perhaps 'absolve' is too strong a word. He certainly tries to reduce the culpability though. If I claim I only did something because I was persuaded to by someone else, it is an attempt to reduce responsibility, however slight.
Netanyahu's claim is that Hitler would not have done it but for Mufti.
Despite the fact there is not one jot of evidence to support Netanyahu's claim. Not one. I don't doubt Mufti was an anti-semite, but he did not persuade Hitler to kill jews ad BB made out.

It was a cynical attempt to incite hatred against Palestinains.
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GoldenFang
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Perhaps 'absolve' is too strong a word. He certainly tries to reduce the culpability though. If I claim I only did something because I was persuaded to by someone else, it is an attempt to reduce responsibility, however slight.
I disagree. I would interpret it as that there is additional responsibility, but not that the primary offender's has been reduced

Netanyahu's claim is that Hitler would not have done it but for Mufti.
Despite the fact there is not one jot of evidence to support Netanyahu's claim. Not one. I don't doubt Mufti was an anti-semite, but he did not persuade Hitler to kill jews ad BB made out.

It was a cynical attempt to incite hatred against Palestinains.
There is a serious point here, which is that the Palestinians have never owned up to the alliance between their leadership and the Nazis, that to this day anti-semitic incitement is rife in Palestinian society and in their media, and much violence has come as a result. Palestinian society needs to come to terms with their deep anti-semitism

Also, it could be argued your actions here were a cynical attempt to derail the thread to a discussion of Netanyahu. Netanyahu's actions do not "absolve" those people in the OULC who are singing "Rockets over Tel Aviv",
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username878267
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(Original post by GoldenFang)
I disagree. I would interpret it as that there is additional responsibility, but not that the primary offender's has been reduced



There is a serious point here, which is that the Palestinians have never owned up to the alliance between their leadership and the Nazis, that to this day anti-semitic incitement is rife in Palestinian society and in their media, and much violence has come as a result. Palestinian society needs to come to terms with their deep anti-semitism

Also, it could be argued your actions here were a cynical attempt to derail the thread to a discussion of Netanyahu. Netanyahu's actions do not "absolve" those people in the OULC who are singing "Rockets over Tel Aviv",
Netanyahu tried to reduce the responsibility on behalf of Hitler and the Nazis, not erode it, but reduce it.

Yes there was an allegiance, yes Mufti was an anti-semite. But there is not on ejot of historical evidence to suggest that Hitler only did it because he was persuaded to by Mufti- which is the exact claim being made.

Why would Netanyahu make a claim, disputed by Yad Vashem and every credible Holocaust historian, without a single jot of evidence? Why? Quite clearly to incite hatred against the Palestinians and in doing so, reducing the blame on the Nazis.
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GoldenFang
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Netanyahu tried to reduce the responsibility on behalf of Hitler and the Nazis, not erode it, but reduce it.
Why are you trying to derail this thread? It looks like my initial instinct was correct. Anything to avoid discussing the anti-semitism of the OULC
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