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Please Assess my chances of a TC at a major London commercial firm Watch

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    Title says it!

    I am a third year UG student of the UEA (University of East Anglia) Law School.
    My current average is 65% (I have mostly 2:1's with some 2.2's and 1/2 1st)


    My I.B. score is 33 (no bonus points awarded)

    I have completed 4 work experience placements (not vacation schemes, but 2 weeks "internships" at law firms (1 in london and 3 in Italy) through unsolicited applications.

    I have done volunteering activities in high school but no probono or volunteering in UNI

    I speak 3 languages (English, Italian and Spanish), and I have always practiced lots of sports (mostly boxing at UNI).

    Please assess what are my chances of doing straight T/C applications for top commercial firms be it USA, National or International, I am talking about Top 15/20 UK or in the world.
    My aim is to work at an elite commercial firm though I have so far only received rejections for both TC's (last year) and Vac schemes and never went past the online application stage!

    Is there any hope left for me?

    Also I am planning to do a Master's next year in order to "fill in the gap" until 2018, since I would have to do my LPC in 2017.

    Any help/suggestions are more than welcome!

    Cheers,
    Anthony
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    Hi Anthony, didn't you just post?

    What's the Italian connection?

    I know J-SP is going to give you a steer.

    Do you lack commercial awareness do you think? I think l the idea that you have to do UN work ex is a is of a myth but what's your stand out achievement? What's the thing you are most proud of?

    If it seems on paper similar to lots of other students then perhaps this is your problem.

    There is also the quality of your apps. How good are they?

    Go and find on Linked in profiles of trainees or future trainees and see if you look like you might be similar to them.

    I would also say, get more experience in English law environment and do pro bono or expect in areas relevant to your commercial area ambitions. Your legal exp might need beefing up.

    I am guessing you are seeking reassurance on here. Well, your chances seem fine but you will have to make it happen, just like all trainees make it happen somehow.

    It is doable but you have to believe!

    Don't panic!




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    If you wnat honesty then imho you wnat to go to elite firms but im not seeing an elite cv.

    You should try anyway, but your application has to be excellent as do your interviews.
    How many applications did you make last year and was it to the same range of firms?

    What are your usps?

    If you are talking 10-20 then yes.

    I put US firms separately.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    If you wnat honesty then imho you wnat to go to elite firms but im not seeing an elite cv.

    You should try anyway, but your application has to be excellent as do your interviews.
    How many applications did you make last year and was it to the same range of firms?

    What are your usps?

    If you are talking 10-20 then yes.

    I put US firms separately.
    Please excuse my ignorance, what do you mean for usps?

    Do you have any suggestions as how I could make my cv "more elite"? I really fill as I am just another fish in the ocean, and do not
    really stand out despite meeting and doing beyond several criteria.
    Last year I did about 10 TC apps (all sent out in July after my second work experience at PwC Legal in Rome.
    I also did other 8 Vac Scheme apps (just recently), and got once again straight rejections after just completing the online form.
    In all honesty I am just mind bogged. I do not really lack anything, and most of my applications seemed really good to me, yet I never ever made it
    past the online application stage.
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    (Original post by happyinthehaze)
    Hi Anthony, didn't you just post?

    What's the Italian connection?

    I know J-SP is going to give you a steer.

    Do you lack commercial awareness do you think? I think l the idea that you have to do UN work ex is a is of a myth but what's your stand out achievement? What's the thing you are most proud of?

    If it seems on paper similar to lots of other students then perhaps this is your problem.

    There is also the quality of your apps. How good are they?

    Go and find on Linked in profiles of trainees or future trainees and see if you look like you might be similar to them.

    I would also say, get more experience in English law environment and do pro bono or expect in areas relevant to your commercial area ambitions. Your legal exp might need beefing up.

    I am guessing you are seeking reassurance on here. Well, your chances seem fine but you will have to make it happen, just like all trainees make it happen somehow.

    It is doable but you have to believe!

    Don't panic!




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    Thank you for replying!
    Yes J-SP has given me some useful feedback, nevertheless after having done about 20 apps (TC/Vac Schemes) all at firms where I would want to work and having ultimately received only straight rejections after just completing the online form I am feeling beyond stressed.
    Once again I have no vac scheme secured and will try to secure whatever legal experience I will find prior to applying once again for straight T/C at "top" commercial firms... I really feel I do not even stand a chance, yet I have to commence the countless hour of work involved in the application process, it feels nearly physically painful.

    Do you recommend anything for "beefing up" the cv? Should I find some pro-bono in third year? Or in general, what do you think would make me really stand out or demonstrate a higher level of commitment to the career path (top notch commercial career) I wish to follow?
    Sorry for the multitude of generic questions, as of now, any sort of help/suggestion is more than welcome!
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    Unique selling points. the thing that makes you stand out.

    If you dont stand out then how do you expect to be called for interview. Think about your competitors. there will be hundreds if not thousands all with 2:1s or higher, some with further degrees.

    I dont think you are making enough apps and I think you have to aim at the places you stand a fighting chance to get into. How does your uni rate? Theres a chap on here who reviews applications. he might come along. I forgot his username.

    You also have the problem that the ten firms who rejected you may not entertain your application again or will be looking for something more.
    Its harder to get on a vacation scheme than get a TC as its a massive advantage. its really just a point on improving and being the best you can in each section, grades, experience and extra currics along with how you sell them. Get your careers service to look at your apps. Being effective at selling yourself will help you improve your apps.

    JSP will give you the heads up.
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    Besides improving your app you have limited time to do something a bit different from what they normall see to make you stand out and sell it on the extra curric front. Think about what they might find interesting.
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    have belief in yourself. you dont need the top grades, compensate and show that you will be a good hire
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    (Original post by Anthony I)
    Please excuse my ignorance, what do you mean for usps?

    Do you have any suggestions as how I could make my cv "more elite"? I really fill as I am just another fish in the ocean, and do not
    really stand out despite meeting and doing beyond several criteria.
    Last year I did about 10 TC apps (all sent out in July after my second work experience at PwC Legal in Rome.
    I also did other 8 Vac Scheme apps (just recently), and got once again straight rejections after just completing the online form.
    In all honesty I am just mind bogged. I do not really lack anything, and most of my applications seemed really good to me, yet I never ever made it
    past the online application stage.
    Ok - I have to be really frank with you.

    I gave you extensive feedback on what needed to be improved and there was a lot there - especially both in terms of your written style and motivational answers. If you now can't see why you weren't getting an interview, then I doubt anyone can help you with this. You even said yourself you struggled on the "why this firm?" part which is absolutely key.

    It doesn't matter how "elite" your CV is, without getting those points right it is unlikely you will be invited through to interview.

    As I also said a lot of firms will be slightly hesitant with your grades too.

    It seems like you have just ignored the feedback I've given you if you're still confused as to why you have been unsuccessful, which is highly disappointing given the time spent giving it.


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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Ok - I have to be really frank with you.

    I gave you extensive feedback on what needed to be improved and there was a lot there - especially both in terms of your written style and motivational answers. If you now can't see why you weren't getting an interview, then I doubt anyone can help you with this. You even said yourself you struggled on the "why this firm?" part which is absolutely key.

    It doesn't matter how "elite" your CV is, without getting those points right it is unlikely you will be invited through to interview.

    As I also said a lot of firms will be slightly hesitant with your grades too.

    It seems like you have just ignored the feedback I've given you if you're still confused as to why you have been unsuccessful, which is highly disappointing given the time spent giving it.


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    Ok it seems J-SP has seen your application and there are obvious reasons why you are not getting interviews.

    You have to be honest and look at what you have compared to others.

    Everyone will have a 2:1 or higher.
    Everyone will have some work experience.
    Everyone will have some extra curriculars.

    The point is theirs might be just that bit better so you need to stand out. the standard is high and its much higher at what you call the elite firms.

    Your applications from last year should give you an indication that somewhere along the line your applications are not strong enough. That may be becayse the raw ingredients are not strong enough.

    Alternatively your answers are not strong enough and you have failed to appreciate what they are looking for and then sell yourself. Other students know how to do this and therefore they beat you.

    The questions are always the same.

    Why do you want to be a lawyer?
    Have you go the skills we are looking for?
    Why do you want to work for us in particular?
    Do you sound like someone who would fit in and be good to work with?

    Your answers need to be smart , understand what they are looking for and make it easy to pick you. Its like a dating game where you tick all the boxes of what the other one wants.

    Going on what J-SP says then he's pointed things out and you dont seem to have taken things on board.

    Imo go back to your careers and get them to look at your application. You arent making the most of yourself. To some extent its up to you to get help and teach yourself how to do a good application rather than a poor one. There are plenty of articles on this and you will just have to put effort in. Use your careers library and online resources.

    The other point is target your applications to the correct level. Dont just chase American firms and Magic circle.

    Look at your applications in explaining what you can do for them and not what they can do for you. Take onboard what J-sp said that there are easy areas to improve, so work on those first.
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    It seems a lot of anxiety is coming from trying to stick to a career plan which has obviously not fallen into place perfectly.

    Sometimes that happens, but it doesn't mean you can't work a way through it. Are you following someone else's plan for you?

    Do you actually want to be a lawyer at 'an elite firm'?

    Do you want to do law?

    I would certainly think about opening your horizons a little. Consider more law firms.

    And listen to J-SP


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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Ok - I have to be really frank with you.

    I gave you extensive feedback on what needed to be improved and there was a lot there - especially both in terms of your written style and motivational answers. If you now can't see why you weren't getting an interview, then I doubt anyone can help you with this. You even said yourself you struggled on the "why this firm?" part which is absolutely key.

    It doesn't matter how "elite" your CV is, without getting those points right it is unlikely you will be invited through to interview.

    As I also said a lot of firms will be slightly hesitant with your grades too.

    It seems like you have just ignored the feedback I've given you if you're still confused as to why you have been unsuccessful, which is highly disappointing given the time spent giving it.


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    I am sorry to have given the wrong impression.
    The feedback you have given me has really been useful and extensive, and the only reason why I created this post was to get feedback from other perspectives and people.
    I have taken on board your useful remarks and I really appreciate the time you have spent in providing me with it!
    Had I known that this thread would have seem like I had ignored your feedback or have not appreciated it, I would have never have created it.
    For that I apologise,
    As I said, this is a crucial process for me, and I am just trying to obtain as much feedback as possible from different people.
    On a sidenote, I have nearly finished re-drafting my cv according to the specific points you mentioned, would it be possible to send it your way once again tomorrow?
    Have a nice day!
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    (Original post by Anthony I)
    I am sorry to have given the wrong impression.
    The feedback you have given me has really been useful and extensive, and the only reason why I created this post was to get feedback from other perspectives and people.
    I have taken on board your useful remarks and I really appreciate the time you have spent in providing me with it!
    Had I known that this thread would have seem like I had ignored your feedback or have not appreciated it, I would have never have created it.
    For that I apologise,
    As I said, this is a crucial process for me, and I am just trying to obtain as much feedback as possible from different people.
    On a sidenote, I have nearly finished re-drafting my cv according to the specific points you mentioned, would it be possible to send it your way once again tomorrow?
    Have a nice day!
    It's fine. I just get peeved by threads like this asking what your "chances" are - no one can tell you what they are.

    Your chances of a TC are defined by you not by other people. Where there are things you can develop its up to you to develop them. But the vast majority of people have something they need to develop. People have to stop looking at it as what are my chances right now, and instead think about what they can do to improve their chances.




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    (Original post by J-SP)
    It's fine. I just get peeved by threads like this asking what your "chances" are - no one can tell you what they are.

    Your chances of a TC are defined by you not by other people. Where there are things you can develop its up to you to develop them. But the vast majority of people have something they need to develop. People have to stop looking at it as what are my chances right now, and instead think about what they can do to improve their chances.


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    I understand and agree. I will do my best to make that happen, and if I will eventually succeed, the feedback you have provided me with will definitely have been part of that reason. The thread can be closed, I apologise for posting this thread and I will first work hard on what you have provided me with prior to seeking other feedback!
    I wish everyone a nice day!
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    (Original post by Anthony I)
    Please excuse my ignorance, what do you mean for usps?

    Do you have any suggestions as how I could make my cv "more elite"? I really fill as I am just another fish in the ocean, and do not
    really stand out despite meeting and doing beyond several criteria.
    Last year I did about 10 TC apps (all sent out in July after my second work experience at PwC Legal in Rome.
    I also did other 8 Vac Scheme apps (just recently), and got once again straight rejections after just completing the online form.
    In all honesty I am just mind bogged. I do not really lack anything, and most of my applications seemed really good to me, yet I never ever made it
    past the online application stage.
    In terms of the specific issue of not getting past the application stage, you should ask a native English speaker to proofread your applications before you send them. Your written style is slightly off in places (although I understand you may not put the same care into forum posts as you would an application).

    Also, understand that the calibre of applicants to the MC is generally very high. You need to mitigate any weakness on your CV.

    Remember that training is only the beginning - you don't have to give up on working for a so-called 'elite' firm just because you didn't train at one.
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    Your last point is a very good one cretin.
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)

    Remember that training is only the beginning - you don't have to give up on working for a so-called 'elite' firm just because you didn't train at one.
    Thank you for your reply Turbo. I heard many people say the transitioning from Regional or even less prestigious commercial firms into the Elite commercial such as the Magic Circle is nearly impossible. Is this just a false myth?
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    (Original post by Anthony I)
    Thank you for your reply Turbo. I heard many people say the transitioning from Regional or even less prestigious commercial firms into the Elite commercial such as the Magic Circle is nearly impossible. Is this just a false myth?
    It depends on a lot of factors. state of the market, specialism, experience, luck. It is possible. You seem to be going big on this idea of elite and prestige.
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    (Original post by Anthony I)
    Thank you for your reply Turbo. I heard many people say the transitioning from Regional or even less prestigious commercial firms into the Elite commercial such as the Magic Circle is nearly impossible. Is this just a false myth?
    I've not been involved in hiring but I imagine it is more complicated than that. Undergrads usually have in mind a vague ranking of the 'eliteness' of various firms, or groups of firms, however that is a very undergrad way of looking at things. I am fairly confident that firms do not make lateral hiring decisions in that way.

    I imagine that the core question in a recruiter's mind is 'does this person have the experience needed for this job?' They will probably consider what kinds of clients the person has worked with, what kinds of transaction he has worked on and what he did in relation to those transactions. Those criteria may overlap to a certain extent with the prestige of the firm the person is coming from, but if they're coming from a relatively unknown boutique which is fantastic in a given area, that person may well end up beating out MC alumni. It all comes down to the individual and what he has to offer.
 
 
 
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