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Motion of No Confidence in HM Government Watch

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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...1#post62758481

    Government Bills to date: 15
    Conkip bills to date :15

    Government Statements to date: 12

    You are actually outclassed in terms of activity
    Those figures are indeed wrong. Have a look in the division lobby yourself and count them. You'll arrive to an entirely different result.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Then your figures are biased.
    You need to look at things objectively, since Rakas updated his tally, there has been one bill from the Conservatives, and one from Barnetlad, however, the right-wing has produced 14 PMBs, and the left has produced 11 PMBs. It is a myth the government has equal output, combining the numbers;

    The right-wing

    UKIP: 10B
    Conservatives: 6B, the Expansion of Science Parks Bill was published after Rakas' count.
    Nigel Farage MEP: 4B
    Hazzer1998: 3B
    Jammy Duel: 2B
    Unown Uzer: 2B
    Adam: 1B
    Wellzi: 1B
    Adam: 1M
    Rakas: 1M
    Hazzer: 1M

    Total without PMBs: 16B
    Total with PMBs: 29B
    Total with motions: 32 items


    The Government

    The government: 15
    Aph: 3B
    United: 1B
    James Milibanter: 1B
    Cranbrook_aspie: 1B
    JoeL1994: 1B
    thehistorybore: 1B
    junaidk7: 1M

    Total without PMBs: 15B
    Total with PMBs: 23B
    Total with motions: 24 items

    Life_peer Those figures do not include the very recent Conservative Bill on science parks; he is wrong but does not want to admit it.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I also have many bills in the pipeline, I just want to make sure they all have the ability of passing the house before I release them all. I also have several motions, several amendments, 13 budgets and a Great Dane called Bob.
    The only difference is, UKIP is an established party, and we have the votes of the people. Up until 2 weeks ago, with the utter most respect, no one had heard of you, and what party do you belong to Lime-man?
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    You need to look at things objectively, since Rakas updated his tally, there has been one bill from the Conservatives, and one from Barnetlad, however, the right-wing has produced 14 PMBs, and the left has produced 11 PMBs. It is a myth the government has equal output, combining the numbers;

    The right-wing

    UKIP: 10B
    Conservatives: 6B, the Expansion of Science Parks Bill was published after Rakas' count.
    Nigel Farage MEP: 4B
    Hazzer1998: 3B
    Jammy Duel: 2B
    Unown Uzer: 2B
    Adam: 1B
    Wellzi: 1B
    Adam: 1M
    Rakas: 1M
    Hazzer: 1M

    Total without PMBs: 16B
    Total with PMBs: 29B
    Total with motions: 32 items


    The Government

    The government: 15
    Aph: 3B
    United: 1B
    James Milibanter: 1B
    Cranbrook_aspie: 1B
    JoeL1994: 1B
    thehistorybore: 1B
    junaidk7: 1M
    Total without PMBs: 15B Total with PMBs: 23B Total with motions: 24 items
    Total of Bills and Statements: 27 items
    Not counting motions and PMBs, the government outmatch you.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...1#post62758481

    Government Bills to date: 15
    Conkip bills to date :15

    Government Statements to date: 12

    You are actually outclassed in terms of activity
    There is no statement count there

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    There is no statement count there

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    No, but this term the government has released 12, check the MHoC forum, I cba to tag every single one.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Not counting motions and PMBs, the government outmatch you.
    Statement of Intents should not be included because they do not have the complexity of bills, or are withdraw after 24 hours, the count can be done to include, or not include PMBs, the result still puts the right-wing ahead.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    No, but this term the government has released 12, check the MHoC forum, I cba to tag every single one.
    But as said earlier, there have been no more than 4 that are anything but fillers or so incredibly flawed they were almost immediately withdrawn.

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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    If you want to include Statement of Intents, then PMB should be included which gives the right-wing outproducing the government, if Statement of Intents are not going to be included, nor are PMBs, the right-wing beats the government by one bill; there has been a Tory bill after Rakas updated his figures.
    Government

    Total output altogether: 36 items

    ConKip

    Total output altogether: 32 items
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Government

    Total output altogether: 36 items

    ConKip

    Total output altogether: 32 items
    Did you include all of Aph's PMBs given I think they were all whilst he was a green, they certainly weren't all whilst on the government benches

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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Statement of Intents should not be included because they do not have the complexity of bills, or are withdraw after 24 hours, the count can be done to include, or not include PMBs, the result still puts the right-wing ahead.
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    But as said earlier, there have been no more than 4 that are anything but fillers or so incredibly flawed they were almost immediately withdrawn.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If that's truly the case, then I suppose it changes things slightly. Although, I doubt the balanced nature of the reasoning because you're bound to disagree with a lot of what the government says and does. At any rate though, you've not proven the government to be inactive, and I must say the petty pleading of "give us a chance in government" was rather embarrassing.

    On the quality of statements though, I'd like to hear the governments rebuttal. Saracen's Fez
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    If that's truly the case, then I suppose it changes things slightly. Although, I doubt the balanced nature of the reasoning because you're bound to disagree with a lot of what the government says and does. At any rate though, you've not proven the government to be inactive, and I must say the petty pleading of "give us a chance in government" was rather embarrassing.

    On the quality of statements though, I'd like to hear the governments rebuttal. Saracen's Fez
    You expect the government to say anything other than "they were near flawless, hence why there were so few rebuttals". Why not look at them yourself?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You expect the government to say anything other than "they were near flawless, hence why there were so few rebuttals". Why not look at them yourself?

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    I've read the budget and it looks like it was the longest one produced in the MHoC, in terms of quality it was on par with the others. A few mistakes, though that was to be expected. As for the others, it seems James Milibanter put a lot of work and effort into his ones, and though a few were rather poor, it doesn't make them inactive or incompetent as a whole, and you've not proven that you could have done a better job. The quality of some, if not most, of the statements was very adequate for a bunch of students.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I've read the budget and it looks like it was the longest one produced in the MHoC, in terms of quality it was on par with the others. A few mistakes, though that was to be expected. As for the others, it seems James Milibanter put a lot of work and effort into his ones, and though a few were rather poor, it doesn't make them inactive or incompetent as a whole, and you've not proven that you could have done a better job. The quality of some, if not most, of the statements was very adequate for a bunch of students.
    You joined TSR three weeks ago. Are you seriously trying to persuade us that you've read all MHoC budgets to date and managed to get adequate feel for what's adequate based on a history of ten years? Very funny and also rather suspicious.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I've read the budget and it looks like it was the longest one produced in the MHoC, in terms of quality it was on par with the others. A few mistakes, though that was to be expected. As for the others, it seems James Milibanter put a lot of work and effort into his ones, and though a few were rather poor, it doesn't make them inactive or incompetent as a whole, and you've not proven that you could have done a better job. The quality of some, if not most, of the statements was very adequate for a bunch of students.
    The budget had glaring mistakes that Jammy Duel corrected for James when the budget was published; the Statement of Intents do not match up with the funding given in the budgets, for instance the defence Statement of Intent that gives a figure for defence spending nearly £20bn higher than the budget does; and the Alternative Tax Act that gave poor people a £7000 council tax bill, but the amendment to correct their errors failed in the Division Lobby. The mistakes are embarrassingly obvious, it is clear more research, more effort, and a very basic understanding of government finance would have avoided the errors.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    You joined TSR three weeks ago. Are you seriously trying to persuade us that you've read all MHoC budgets to date and managed to get adequate feel for what's adequate based on a history of ten years? Very funny and also rather suspicious.

    I read the 2010, 2012, 2014 and 2015. If there's more then I apologise but as for the ones I read, it's not too bad.

    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    The budget had glaring mistakes that Jammy Duel corrected for James when the budget was published; the Statement of Intents do not match up with the funding given in the budgets, for instance the defence Statement of Intent that gives a figure for defence spending nearly £20bn higher than the budget does; and the Alternative Tax Act that gave poor people a £7000 council tax bill, but the amendment to correct their errors failed in the Division Lobby. The mistakes are embarrassingly obvious, it is clear more research, more effort, and a very basic understanding of government finance would have avoided the errors.
    I'm not saying I agree with the proposals or that it was perfect, but compared to the others I've read, it's not too different in terms of quality (except the 2015, but there was enough badmouthing of it in the thread, I also understand that you had some involvement in it). So wait, why did an amendment to correct the errors fail? Sorry, it's a little confusing.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    On the quality of statements though, I'd like to hear the governments rebuttal. Saracen's Fez
    I'm content overall with the standard of statements.

    They are not of a noticeably worse standard than the work of any other government I have seen in my two years here.

    Nor do I buy the argument that our material is of a noticeably worse standard than that of the opposition parties.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    I'm content overall with the standard of statements.

    They are not of a noticeably worse standard than the work of any other government I have seen in my two years here.

    Nor do I buy the argument that our material is of a noticeably worse standard than that of the opposition parties.
    Does that mean they are worse, or are you being modest?
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    A Vote of No Confidence has been called against the TSR Government.

    A 3 day discussion period will be followed by a 4 day vote in the Division Lobby as per the Guidance Document. If the result of the poll is in favour of the motion of no confidence then a period of 7 days shall be allowed for other parties to form a new government (using all the usual regulations for it).If the result of the poll does not favour the motion of no confidence then usual business will resume in the House of Commons.


    Motion of No Confidence
    Motion of No Confidence in Her Majesty's Government
    Proposed by: Life_peer MP (CON)
    Seconded by: Jammy Duel MP (CON), mobbsy91 MP (CON), Nigel Farage MEP MP (UKIP), Unown Uzer MP (UKIP)

    This House has no confidence in Her Majesty’s Government.

    Since the beginning of this year, the Government have managed to produce only two bills, one of which failed and the other, previously drafted for and proposed within another MHoC, managed to dramatically compromise the operation of our security services, and one disastrous and technically flawed budget.

    Prior to that, in the month of December 2015, the Government attempted yet another failed House of Lords reform, passed a fairly minor bill to ‘protect’ negligent customers from energy companies, recklessly permitted trade unions to use unsafe and obscure online voting, and gave asexuality ‘the same legal recognition and protection’ as other trendy forms of sexual behaviour while neglecting and discriminating against the other exotic permutations of sexual attributes.

    In November 2015, right when the Government were fresh after they had won the general election and formed their coalition, they only managed to create a single bill which has passed only by a hair, having been labeled ‘a travesty to democracy’ even by some of their own.

    At the same time, various members of the Government proposed a couple of PMB and arguably many needless constitutional amendments, giving the impression of a severe lack of unity further indicated by their very low engagement in debates and members who had simply disappeared. Two of their seats held by the Liberal party are now highlighted for removal and the number would have been higher had the current Speaker started the review where the previous one left off.

    In total, three and a half months since the general election, more than halfway into the current term, the Government's output of mere six bills has been surpassed by single parties with fewer members such as UKIP, Greens, or even Socialists.

    Even worse, the Government don't act on their promises to the electorate – the very promises they've been elected upon! TSR Liberal party have addressed only two out of their quite specific twelve election pledges and TSR Labour party have been even a bit less successful – about two out of fourteen!

    Moreover, the contents of the statement of intent from the Department of the Environment, Energy and Climate Change from 18 November 2015 were not only flawed but have also not been put into law to date.

    Moving on to the much postponed budget after the former Liberal leader and Chancellor had simply disappeared, this has been a term of two Chancellors. We've had an absent Chancellor (a state that was maintained for a month before finally the Government managed to replace him), and we've had an inept Chancellor (who at least finally resigned), and a financially inept Government as a whole. Sadly, this financial ineptitude has not been limited to the Chancellor, but is a common symptom within the entire Government, with arbitrary figures often used and cases where expensive pieces have had no costing at all. He, and the leadership of the Government, appear to let Government items be released without even running a sanity check on the figures used.

    Perhaps the greatest example of this is the SoI from the former Rt. Hon. SoS for Defence, an item that was withdrawn in less than twenty four hours with figures apparently pulled out of a hat to make it look like nice things are being done. It included spending almost half of the foreign aid budget, misappropriated into the Defence budget to try to hide a significant nominal funding cut, on the Afghan government, doubling their budget with a sum of money that is greater than 25% of their GDP, and to do this the government intended to cut our nuclear budget not only to zero, but to approximately minus six hundred percent.

    Further, it more than doubled the annual budget of MI5 and GCHQ, further highlighting how little research the government does, but this problem goes further. After withdrawing the SoI, the Government did not go and reconsider the figures in any real detail, in fact all they did was cram the very same SoI into the budget with all figures slashed by 90% and parts of it with no support from the former SoS for Defence; this along with a number of other arbitrary figures apparently pulled out of thin air for the budget.

    The issue goes the other way as well; it's not just arbitrary costing that needs dealing with, it is no costing at all. The former SoS for Health who has recently resigned published her own SoI, one that not only neglected to consider changes made in the budget, but failed to include any costing at all despite including projects costing several billion pounds, the only alternative being that the SoS in fact wishes to cut other services, which is perhaps even worse.

    Beyond this we've had a Chancellor often incapable of accurate costing, with there being at least two notable cases beyond the budget. The first major error was with the original Alternative Tax Act which stated revenues of £83bn, however a more in-depth look has shown this figure to, in reality, be at least double that figure with a lower bound of £165bn, and up to five times with an absolute upper bound of £415bn. This is only compounded when we look at the amendment also put forwards by the former Chancellor, once again severely underestimating the revenues from another regressive tax designed to replace it, with the figure put forwards by the Government only covering residential properties, and not extending the costing to commercial and industrial lands. The Government have also promised to spend £56.1bn on environment with no plans on where that it going to come from.

    We see in this Government poor research and financial irresponsibility. We see numbers being randomly plucked out of the air, severe underestimates from poor research, and even a lack of costing. We've seen a Chancellor who has difficulty with even some of the most basic concepts, a Chancellor who fails to accept when they are objectively wrong, a Chancellor who was simply not fit for his job.

    In short, the recently most active member of the Government appears to have been their weakest link, but he wasn't the only weak link. Only a very minor portion of the Cabinet is active in debates and even fewer have released a bill or a Statement of Intent. They lack defence, education, foreign and social policies, the Foreign Secretary's only work has been a statement calling for Britain to leave the Commonwealth, the former Defence Secretary couldn't even defend his own and the new Secretary has a history of absurdity, with motions calling for the opening of our borders to the deployment of our armed forces into Syria for the purpose of protecting some birds and an archaeological site!

    These countless failings and errors are almost unprecedented, perhaps saved only by the two subsequent disasters last term, and we believe it should change.

    Unfortunately, they are simply not up to the job.



    Notes: The number of bills doesn't include those expired or withdrawn, in other words those currently in the Division Lobby.


    Please keep discussion civil.


    I thought a motion of no confidence in Government required a majority to support the motion before there would any voting whatsoever?
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Does that mean they are worse, or are you being modest?
    If Byronichero, Rakas, Life_peer, Toronto, and Birchington all make comments about the declining standards, when all of them have been here for over half a decade, I think it is acceptable to believe their words.
 
 
 
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