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There are too many people on benefits Watch

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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    Tax evasion, even though it's a bigger impact on society than benefit fraud, tax evasion seems to be more moral (is that the right word?) than benefit fraud. Reason being tax evasion is fighting for what you have earned, whereas benefit fraud is essentially theft.

    I guess you can argue that tax evasion is theft from the government and from those who need it. (But how much of what we tax genuinely goes to those who need it.)

    I think the thing that annoys me is that benefit fraud has a high level of "self-entitlement". Those frauding genuinely believe that life is one big free ride.

    I just feel like we are all capable of something. There are people out there with illnesses,wheelchairs etc who still go about doing their daily activities. If you can't stand for long periods of time, find a sitting down job, if you can't work with people find a job that's more individual, if you can't commute then work from home, if you can't find a job...volunteer! There's always an option or a way of participating somehow in society.
    I'm severely mentally ill. I tried working but the stress and anxiety made me suicidal after less than a week. It took about a month to recover. I tried volunteering but often I seriously struggle to get out of bed and I know there's no way I can do anything. I put a lot of pressure on myself but after a month of maybe 10-15 hours a week I crashed and was unable to cope with anything. I tried volunteering again but for only a couple of hours a week. My anxiety was so high I was effectively useless to them and so I stopped. Now I walk a neighbour's dog a couple of times a week while she's at work and sometimes go out and see my friends. I struggle to process how to do a food shop now. I participate in society in a way that is healthy for me: by having friends and trying to look after myself.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    It all goes into the same budget which is why they were talking about merging the taxes


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    It categorically doesn't, that's what hypothecated means. NI only goes into the pot, the pot is only spent on benefits.

    The elephant in the room is (IIRC) pensions and HB which are off balance sheet and paid for out of general taxation - because we have externalities in these areas, ageing population and low housing supply.

    Tax credits are also off balance sheet.
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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    Tax evasion, even though it's a bigger impact on society than benefit fraud, tax evasion seems to be more moral (is that the right word?) than benefit fraud. Reason being tax evasion is fighting for what you have earned, whereas benefit fraud is essentially theft.

    I guess you can argue that tax evasion is theft from the government and from those who need it. (But how much of what we tax genuinely goes to those who need it.)

    I think the thing that annoys me is that benefit fraud has a high level of "self-entitlement". Those frauding genuinely believe that life is one big free ride.

    I just feel like we are all capable of something. There are people out there with illnesses,wheelchairs etc who still go about doing their daily activities. If you can't stand for long periods of time, find a sitting down job, if you can't work with people find a job that's more individual, if you can't commute then work from home, if you can't find a job...volunteer! There's always an option or a way of participating somehow in society.
    You do realise there are 2,000,000 unemployed (massaged government figures) and 750,000 jobs (also massaged government figures).

    That's the bottom line: not even a Tory chancellor can make maths like that work. People in wheelchairs or who cannot for whatever reason do half of the jobs that are around are obviously at the back of the queue too.

    I would also like to see you fill in a form for any of these benefits. It is thought that long-term benefit claimants have more knowledge of the system than lawyers trained specifically in that area. And do you have any idea of how draconian the JSA system is these days? You have to apply for 20 jobs a week when in your average small town you'd be lucky to see that many in a month.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    Guess my employment is just imaginary then and someone else is putting that 4k in my bank account each month. Also are you suggesting that jobs either glue you to a desk or make you run track all day? You could also be self employed... People work with debilitating injuries work all the time and do fine, unless you are frickin' blind (know someone blind in one eye working) there is rarely an excuse but again this country is over PC.

    I also noticed you posted in the running thread pretty good for someone who has physical impairment, you do realize people with no legs can get jobs right? You must have it so hard. Fortunately for you this country does indeed have bigger issues to worry about than drain on benefits but unfortunately for you benefit claimants are going to end up as the scapegoats for the bigger issues.
    Right, you're getting £48k a year after tax working remotely, yeah I totally believe that...

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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    Tax evasion, even though it's a bigger impact on society than benefit fraud, tax evasion seems to be more moral (is that the right word?) than benefit fraud. Reason being tax evasion is fighting for what you have earned, whereas benefit fraud is essentially theft.
    Babe, they're not going to give you any of it no matter how hard you lick their arse.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Babe, they're not going to give you any of it no matter how hard you lick their arse.
    My wife earns £2k per month i think. It is possible.
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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    In terms of tax - the reason why I get rather worked up, is not for myself, but for other people. Prior to my job, I worked in a payroll company. We were processing payment for those who were literally living on minimum wage, couldn't afford the electric bill, type of people. And I had to put their tax code on their paycheck and tax them, and I hated it. Because I knew that those people who worked hard, and honestly for their money were not getting their earn because the government think that just because they earn x amount, they can pay y amount of tax. A lot of these people owed money to pay back loans, had kids and dependents to feed etc and it was awful to know that the small amount they earned, they were taxed. The extra £5 a week that they were taxed on could have meant that they were able to keep the heating on a little longer during the night.

    I've seen my dad work 2 jobs, 14 hours a day work when I grew up, just to earn enough to live on. He would have probably only have had to work 11 hours a day if he wasn't taxed so much, and I would have been able to see him more as a child.

    Anyway , I hope I made sense. I personally don't mind tax that much, because I still get a decent wage a the end of it. But it's those on that borderline, of which there is a lot, that I wish were considered.
    But you do realise the tax was never theirs, don't you? It is quoted in your salary precisely so the company can go with the narrative of "well we could pay you 20% more tomorrow if only you voted for an anti-tax government!"

    And it simply seems like you should want a more progressive income tax, not tax swept away altogether, so that the poorer workers don't have to pay as much (see also working tax credits!).

    As it happens I don't really believe in income tax at all. Tax should be levied on rentiers, particularly land rentiers, and those profiteers whose product is counter to the national economic interest or economic aims of a democratically elected government.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    Guess my employment is just imaginary then and someone else is putting that 4k in my bank account each month. Also are you suggesting that jobs either glue you to a desk or make you run track all day? You could also be self employed... People work with debilitating injuries work all the time and do fine, unless you are frickin' blind (know someone blind in one eye working) there is rarely an excuse but again this country is over PC.

    I also noticed you posted in the running thread pretty good for someone who has physical impairment, you do realize people with no legs can get jobs right? You must have it so hard. Fortunately for you this country does indeed have bigger issues to worry about than drain on benefits but unfortunately for you benefit claimants are going to end up as the scapegoats for the bigger issues.
    Being blind in one eye is completely different to being partial in both. If you're blind in one eye, you can comepnsate. You can't do that if you're partially sighted in both eyes. I'm also mildly deaf in one ear and have other hearing problems too, which would also mean having to somehow work in complete silience, which would be impossible. I also have other disabilities which makes working difficult plus I have a learning disability which does make working difficult. I also take medication which causes a lot of problems.

    Having no legs is completely different to what I have.

    Maybe you should stop being so bloody judgemental. You obviously have no idea about the conditions I have.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    Being blind in one eye is completely different to being partial in both. If you're blind in one eye, you can comepnsate. You can't do that if you're partially sighted in both eyes. I'm also mildly deaf in one ear and have other hearing problems too, which would also mean having to somehow work in complete silience, which would be impossible. I also have other disabilities which makes working difficult plus I have a learning disability which does make working difficult. I also take medication which causes a lot of problems.

    Having no legs is completely different to what I have.

    Maybe you should stop being so bloody judgemental. You obviously have no idea about the conditions I have.
    The poster probably thinks people like you shouldn't be able to survive because of natural selection lol


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    Tax is like the round at a pub ...you end up paying for everyone's drink .... I would be in favour of Spending Cuts than higher taxes
    1) Cut Foreign by 80%
    2) Privatise the NHS A people pay for it by Tax
    3) Leave the EU
    This way you can lower taxes , increase wages , reduce welfare as much as possible .... Foreign Aid is ridiculous charity starts at home so you can spend the saved money on things like Defence , Education etc rather than the endless welfare bill
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    (Original post by AdjectiveNoun)
    More money is lost through tax evasion than spent on benefits.
    Tax avoidance is an international issue and not one that is fixed by regional law. The left wingers claim to oppose tax avoidance yet support the EU membership (which is the greatest culprit of tax avoidance) so stop complaining. Since you guys will vote for the EU anyway and since you have no power to change international laws (only a left winger would think they could reform laws when up against the EU, USA, India, China, Russia ect. Ha good luck), there is nothing you can do about tax avoidance
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    don't trust those channel 5 programmes for any kind of unbiased look into 'benefits Britain'
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    (Original post by Vicodin)
    don't trust those channel 5 programmes for any kind of unbiased look into 'benefits Britain'
    The benefits system is a farse, half of the people getting maximum benefits are claiming them illegally because they dont want to work. Benefuts really should be for the disabled, those injured in war and young people who have come from nothing and cant earn a minum wage
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    (Original post by Warren95)
    The benefits system is a farse, half of the people getting maximum benefits are claiming them illegally because they dont want to work. Benefuts really should be for the disabled, those injured in war and young people who have come from nothing and cant earn a minum wage
    link?
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    link?
    Ok, I took that a bit too far. It just bugs me thats all
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    You make it sound so bloody simple. It really isn't. I can't stand for long periods of time. I also can't sit for long periods of time. Just what do you suggest I do then? Most jobs require you to interact with people in some way and most work from home jobs either don't exist or are scams.
    How long is a "long period of time" ...are you talking an hour, or a couple of hours? And so, if you can't sit or stand for long periods of time, then err...in daily life, what do you actually do? Do you have to keep moving or something? I don't know about your illness and I don't intend to, but I'm sure there is something out there for you. Even making a youtube video, starting a blog, photography...you wouldn't need to work for "long periods of time" ..just here and there, and you'd be able to make quite a bit of money.

    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    I'm severely mentally ill. I tried working but the stress and anxiety made me suicidal after less than a week. It took about a month to recover. I tried volunteering but often I seriously struggle to get out of bed and I know there's no way I can do anything. I put a lot of pressure on myself but after a month of maybe 10-15 hours a week I crashed and was unable to cope with anything. I tried volunteering again but for only a couple of hours a week. My anxiety was so high I was effectively useless to them and so I stopped. Now I walk a neighbour's dog a couple of times a week while she's at work and sometimes go out and see my friends. I struggle to process how to do a food shop now. I participate in society in a way that is healthy for me: by having friends and trying to look after myself.
    It's good to know that you have tried, that's more than a lot of people can say. How about getting paid to dog walk? Is work perhaps something that you need to build up your stamina to do? One hour a day, then two hours a day etc.? Maybe have a councilor to coach you into being able to control your anxiety in a way that is manageable - I'm just making a few suggestions here, but no doubt you have tried them all.


    I know now (in part) what both of you go through on a daily basis, but I repeat, I'm sure there's something. I fail (and hate) to believe that there are people on this earth who are unable and cannot contribute to society in any way shape or form. We all have something to give. You can't genuinely believe you have been put on this Earth for nothing.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    You do realise there are 2,000,000 unemployed (massaged government figures) and 750,000 jobs (also massaged government figures).

    That's the bottom line: not even a Tory chancellor can make maths like that work. People in wheelchairs or who cannot for whatever reason do half of the jobs that are around are obviously at the back of the queue too.

    I would also like to see you fill in a form for any of these benefits. It is thought that long-term benefit claimants have more knowledge of the system than lawyers trained specifically in that area. And do you have any idea of how draconian the JSA system is these days? You have to apply for 20 jobs a week when in your average small town you'd be lucky to see that many in a month.
    Of course they do, how do you think they cheat the system otherwise.

    What else can you tell me about the JSA system - what percentage are regular smokers or drinkers? How many are living in 3 bedroom semi's? I wonder if these stats are out there.

    I'm not saying that everyone needs to be employed, I'm saying to do SOMETHING. ANYTHING. Volunteer? Schools are always looking for staff to help out, charities need fund raisers and staff, the NHS isn't exactly winning points... there's something out there. What I have realised is that people would rather go on benefits than clean roadsides and toilets. It's a pride thing.

    There are people trying to support their family having 2-3-4 jobs, working literally day and night. Just this weekend I was talking to a guy who worked at the petrol station who was saying how he has worked 7 days a week for the last 6 years, not one day off, or sick day, because he can't afford it. And then someone claims they can't even get a part time job? Right.

    Take time out for someone to check over your CV, brush up your interview skills etc and you're ready to go. If all fails, turn back time, take advantage of the tax money which goes towards public schooling to actually learn, rather than to have sex at 14 years old and undermine your maths teacher by saying "when will this come up in real life".
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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    How long is a "long period of time" ...are you talking an hour, or a couple of hours? And so, if you can't sit or stand for long periods of time, then err...in daily life, what do you actually do? Do you have to keep moving or something? I don't know about your illness and I don't intend to, but I'm sure there is something out there for you. Even making a youtube video, starting a blog, photography...you wouldn't need to work for "long periods of time" ..just here and there, and you'd be able to make quite a bit of money.
    Photography as someone who is severely colourblind and partially sighted? lol ok
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    Photography as someone who is severely colourblind and partially sighted? lol ok
    It was just mentioned that they can't sit or stand for long periods of time. So unless they are flying, I don't really know what the hell they do during the day.

    I don't know the ins and outs of the illness. Being colourblind wasn't mentioned, and also there might be a lot of success doing black and white photographs / shadow work.
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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    How long is a "long period of time" ...are you talking an hour, or a couple of hours? And so, if you can't sit or stand for long periods of time, then err...in daily life, what do you actually do? Do you have to keep moving or something? I don't know about your illness and I don't intend to, but I'm sure there is something out there for you. Even making a youtube video, starting a blog, photography...you wouldn't need to work for "long periods of time" ..just here and there, and you'd be able to make quite a bit of money.



    It's good to know that you have tried, that's more than a lot of people can say. How about getting paid to dog walk? Is work perhaps something that you need to build up your stamina to do? One hour a day, then two hours a day etc.? Maybe have a councilor to coach you into being able to control your anxiety in a way that is manageable - I'm just making a few suggestions here, but no doubt you have tried them all.


    I know now (in part) what both of you go through on a daily basis, but I repeat, I'm sure there's something. I fail (and hate) to believe that there are people on this earth who are unable and cannot contribute to society in any way shape or form. We all have something to give. You can't genuinely believe you have been put on this Earth for nothing.
    You really don't understand disability, do you? You are trying to tell two people that we should 'try harder' to not be disabled. It doesn't work like that. You've admitted you don't want to understand Tiger Rag's disabilities but yet you think you can tell them that you know what work they can do?

    The VAST majority of people who blog or vlog make very little (or no) money from it. It takes dedication and time to decide content, comment on other blogs or vlogs that are similar to yours to get readers/viewers. It's not 'record a couple of youtube videos a month with no effort required and suddenly thousands of pounds falls into your bank account'.

    I'm not telling you I've tried to persuade you that you can tell me to try harder. I'm telling you how ill it made me so you realise how ableist you are. I'm not sure you understand how employment works because no-one's going to employ someone who says they can work 'one hour a day'.

    And you really think I can get therapy? Mental health services are so underfunded that my support didn't increase (from getting meds from my GP) after I tried to kill myself. And private therapists cost money (which unsurprisingly I don't have much of).

    I do contribute. But that contribution doesn't have to involve having a job. I'm not sitting in my room never communicating with anyone. What I 'give' is my friendship and love to the people in my life. And I spent a lot of time trying to educate people like you on why your ignorant views on disability and especially mental illness are awful.

    I don't believe in the idea that we all have a 'purpose'. There's no plan. I was born. I'll die. The bits in between are about maximising happiness and minimising hurt in every way I can. If that's just comforting a friend when they're struggling and waving at children on the bus because I can't do more and stay healthy then that's what I'll do.

    I want to work. Not because I feel like I need to to be a worthwhile person. Not because people like you think I'm a scrounger. Not because I want more money. But because being able to hold down a job would mean I would be recovering. That there might be an end to this pain and darkness and fear. But pushing myself towards that too fast will only do damage.
 
 
 
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