Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    S10 - Retaliative action against DaeshStatement from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office

    After the recent events of Islamic extremists, including an attack on the Cabinet of the United Kingdom, the British Government will be formally recognising Daesh after the Joint Intelligence Committee formally identified the 11 terrorists involved in the Cabinet attack as members of Daesh. This recognition also identifies the attack on the cabinet meeting as a declaration of war through invasion, a direct threat to the British people and the country we live in. It is, with great regret therefore, that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office sees the only option left to safeguard against further invasion or other attempts to seriously injure or kill British is a direct attack on Daesh held territories. The attacks will focus on the 4 main Daesh controlled cities and the surrounding area; Kobani, Hasakah, Deir ez-Zor, and Raqqa. After discussion with the Ministry of Defence, personnel of the British Army will be transported to Iraq to await further deployment, while the Royal Navy will assemble and deploy a task force to the Mediterranean. On Cyprus, RAF Akrotiri shall be supplied with an additional 10 Tornado aircraft (currently undergoing refit) and a further 2 Reaper drones to assist in daily airstrikes against targets high in value to Daesh. This declaration of war has not been taken lightly. Member states of the European Union and NATO have been informed, along with a proposal to divide the territories claimed by Daesh amongst the UK, USA, France and Germany, until a democratically elected Government can be restored.


    Speaker's Note: This SOI references Crisis 02.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    So are we now recognising IS as a state?

    Further, any rough budget for the war?

    Also is indirectly contradictory to the other statement pushed out today

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    Aye .... Sensible Action
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Undecided. Given the necessary lack of access of MHoC members to military intelligence, I don't really think military matters are very interesting to discuss here.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Undecided. Given the necessary lack of access of MHoC members to military intelligence, I don't really think military matters are very interesting to discuss here.
    I'd agree, it has made my contribution to such matters in the subforum rather dull
    • Study Helper
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    Welcome Squad
    Meh, I'll abstain because my vote would be void. I can somewhat advise on weaponry and military tactics if detailed military information is provided, which it hasn't. So it'd be like asking a fish to climb a ladder.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Funny how none of this was mentioned in the MoD review...
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So are we now recognising IS as a state?

    Further, any rough budget for the war?

    Also is indirectly contradictory to the other statement pushed out today

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    We're recognising Daesh as the illegal terrorist organisation it is parading as a nation, rejecting it's claim to the areas it claims to govern.

    Honestly? Not yet. It will take some time to work out, but will be started this weekend when I'm home from HMS Temeraire. This action needs to be taken though before further atrocities are committed, we have a moral obligation.

    Contradictory in what way?
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by Wellzi)
    Many hours we none of this was mentioned in the MoD review...
    Its not an MoD matter until it passes.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Okay, and what do we do about Assad? Who has committed equally as awful atrocities and is the direct source of the massive influx of immigrants into Europe.

    If we are bombing ISIS, we are indirectly supporting Assad.

    Instead, make a petition which involves removing Assad and sorting out the country once and for all. ISIS only really participated in the Syrian Civil War since 2014, the war started in 2011. There's no reason this war will get any better if ISIS is removed from the game. ISIS needs to exist in Syria to give the opponents solidarity.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    We're recognising Daesh as the illegal terrorist organisation it is parading as a nation, rejecting it's claim to the areas it claims to govern.

    Honestly? Not yet. It will take some time to work out, but will be started this weekend when I'm home from HMS Temeraire. This action needs to be taken though before further atrocities are committed, we have a moral obligation.

    Contradictory in what way?
    We can easily run into arguments as to what makes a state, a nation, etc but you are declaring war, doing so would make the UK the first nation in the world to recognise IS as a legitimate state.

    We have such a strong moral obligation that it takes a petition and a MoNC for this to be published? If it were such a moral imperative should we not have seen this 3 months ago? Or even in the last parliament? Or even the parliament before that? I need to take a look through Hansard later. In fact actually your own words "We should focus on our own country and the state of our Armed Forces before sending them to the Middle East again." Is the government undergoing an identity crisis or just trying to look tough given that last time the matter was raised a massive portion of the government stuck they're head in the sand and said "no invasion", not to mention a massive U turn on defence spending releasing a review that has a level of spending above that declared excessive.

    And it's in indirect contradiction because you're saying invade, it's saying sit around in our barracks and drop a few bombs.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Aye. Finally a sensible Government Statement.
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Okay, and what do we do about Assad? Who has committed equally as awful atrocities and is the direct source of the massive influx of immigrants into Europe.

    If we are bombing ISIS, we are indirectly supporting Assad.

    Instead, make a petition which involves removing Assad and sorting out the country once and for all. ISIS only really participated in the Syrian Civil War since 2014, the war started in 2011. There's no reason this war will get any better if ISIS is removed from the game. ISIS needs to exist in Syria to give the opponents solidarity.
    Assad is going to have to be dealt with diplomatically for now, until the situation with Daesh is resolved as far as it can be. 3.3 million people alone have been displaced in Iraq, approx. 11 million more in Syria due to expansion and the civil war. We focus on Daesh and bring stability to the northern region before focussing on the Syrian Civil War.

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    We can easily run into arguments as to what makes a state, a nation, etc but you are declaring war, doing so would make the UK the first nation in the world to recognise IS as a legitimate state.

    We have such a strong moral obligation that it takes a petition and a MoNC for this to be published? If it were such a moral imperative should we not have seen this 3 months ago? Or even in the last parliament? Or even the parliament before that? I need to take a look through Hansard later. In fact actually your own words "We should focus on our own country and the state of our Armed Forces before sending them to the Middle East again." Is the government undergoing an identity crisis or just trying to look tough given that last time the matter was raised a massive portion of the government stuck they're head in the sand and said "no invasion", not to mention a massive U turn on defence spending releasing a review that has a level of spending above that declared excessive.

    And it's in indirect contradiction because you're saying invade, it's saying sit around in our barracks and drop a few bombs.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    It is recognising it as a state, albeit an illegal one.

    The plan was to release it when the vote finished on it which was back in January but the budget and some family commitments got in the way (which I'd rather not post in public - feel free to PM me if you care that much for the reason).

    The new defence review is the start of the improvement of the military that will allow us to be able to carry out an operation to cripple Daesh once and for all.

    The two go hand in hand, but this will be sent to vote, it is the MoDs plans that the air strikes carry on regardless.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    Assad is going to have to be dealt with diplomatically for now, until the situation with Daesh is resolved as far as it can be. 3.3 million people alone have been displaced in Iraq, approx. 11 million more in Syria due to expansion and the civil war. We focus on Daesh and bring stability to the northern region before focussing on the Syrian Civil War.



    It is recognising it as a state, albeit an illegal one.

    The plan was to release it when the vote finished on it which was back in January but the budget and some family commitments got in the way (which I'd rather not post in public - feel free to PM me if you care that much for the reason).

    The new defence review is the start of the improvement of the military that will allow us to be able to carry out an operation to cripple Daesh once and for all.

    The two go hand in hand, but this will be sent to vote, it is the MoDs plans that the air strikes carry on regardless.
    There is no such thing as an "illegal state", they do not work on a system of legality but legitimacy, much like monarchy. Pretenders to the throne, whether that be due to the lack of existence of the throne or another sitting there with a greater legitimacy, is not an illegal monarch, they are an illegitimate one. Declaring war declares that this government recognises the legitimacy of the government of IS and IS as a state.

    And it's an interesting insight into the efficiency or lack of of this government if a statement in response to the Paris attacks took two months to sort out.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    There is no such thing as an "illegal state", they do not work on a system of legality but legitimacy, much like monarchy. Pretenders to the throne, whether that be due to the lack of existence of the throne or another sitting there with a greater legitimacy, is not an illegal monarch, they are an illegitimate one. Declaring war declares that this government recognises the legitimacy of the government of IS and IS as a state.

    And it's an interesting insight into the efficiency or lack of of this government if a statement in response to the Paris attacks took two months to sort out.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Illegitimate then, whichever term works for you.

    Like I said, I had other commitments and I gave you the chance to PM me, not that you have the capacity for empathy to give a ****, don't blame the Government for that.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    Illegitimate then, whichever term works for you.

    Like I said, I had other commitments and I gave you the chance to PM me, not that you have the capacity for empathy to give a ****, don't blame the Government for that.
    If it's illegitimate then why recognise them by declaring war?

    And the way you wrote it implied the plan was for it to take two months and then delays were kicked in. The budget certainly isn't an excuse for most of the period.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RayApparently)
    S10 - Retaliative action against DaeshStatement from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office

    After the recent events of Islamic extremists, including an attack on the Cabinet of the United Kingdom, the British Government will be formally recognising Daesh after the Joint Intelligence Committee formally identified the 11 terrorists involved in the Cabinet attack as members of Daesh. This recognition also identifies the attack on the cabinet meeting as a declaration of war through invasion, a direct threat to the British people and the country we live in. It is, with great regret therefore, that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office sees the only option left to safeguard against further invasion or other attempts to seriously injure or kill British is a direct attack on Daesh held territories. The attacks will focus on the 4 main Daesh controlled cities and the surrounding area; Kobani, Hasakah, Deir ez-Zor, and Raqqa. After discussion with the Ministry of Defence, personnel of the British Army will be transported to Iraq to await further deployment, while the Royal Navy will assemble and deploy a task force to the Mediterranean. On Cyprus, RAF Akrotiri shall be supplied with an additional 10 Tornado aircraft (currently undergoing refit) and a further 2 Reaper drones to assist in daily airstrikes against targets high in value to Daesh. This declaration of war has not been taken lightly. Member states of the European Union and NATO have been informed, along with a proposal to divide the territories claimed by Daesh amongst the UK, USA, France and Germany, until a democratically elected Government can be restored.


    Speaker's Note: This SOI references Crisis 02.
    I would just continue bombing - maybe upgrade to a nuclear bomb then our current paper thin army will not decrease again
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheHelpfulMan)
    I would just continue bombing - maybe upgrade to a nuclear bomb then our current paper thin army will not decrease again
    "The attacks will focus on the 4 main Daesh controlled cities and the surrounding area; Kobani, Hasakah, Deir ez-Zor, and Raqqa"

    There are innocents and children living in those cities, so the pacifists would freak out. But more importantly, there would be way too much collateral.

    The only thing that I can say is that I'd rather see boots on the ground and a more detailed plan, involving more than just the RAF.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lime-man)
    "The attacks will focus on the 4 main Daesh controlled cities and the surrounding area; Kobani, Hasakah, Deir ez-Zor, and Raqqa"

    There are innocents and children living in those cities, so the pacifists would freak out. But more importantly, there would be way too much collateral.

    The only thing that I can say is that I'd rather see boots on the ground and a more detailed plan, involving more than just the RAF.
    It may kill innocent children but if it nullifies the threat its worth it
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheHelpfulMan)
    It may kill innocent children but if it nullifies the threat its worth it
    And then we have a whole load of people all around the world pissed off at us for nuking a load of kids, remove one problem by creating 12 more
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: February 24, 2016
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.