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    Hi everyone, I've seen so many repeat 'do I have the grades to do law' and 'what universities can I apply to' questions, I'll just give a definitive guide to answer all of them.
    Please note this is a rough guide, and uni's take into account more than just grades, e.g. personal statement and the LNAT. But here:

    GCSE:
    6A*+ - won't hold you back at oxbridge
    4A*6/7A's+ - will be fine for UCL, LSE, KCL, providing LNAT and A levels go very well. Will struggle at oxford.
    Less than 4A*, or >2B's - Will struggle for oxbridge, UCL, LSE, KCL, durham. Bristol, Warwick, notthingham etc will not hold you back.

    AS levels. (in top 3 subjects)
    AAA over 90UMS - Ideal for oxbridge, LSE, UCL
    AAA under 90UMS - should be ok for UCL (if lnat is good), KCL, Durham etc. Struggle for LSE and oxbridge
    AAB- Struggle for UCL, LSE. KCL, Durham at a stretch with good GCSE/LNAT. Ok for bristol, warwick, nottingham etc.

    A2 Predictions
    A*AA+ - Ok for anything
    AAA - Bristol, warwick, manchester. No chance of LSE, UCL, oxbridge
    AAB and below - any not top 10 law uni.

    Hope this helps
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    (Original post by guest115)

    Hope this helps
    No it simply gives a lot of fatuous and misleading information.
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    (Original post by guest115)
    Hi everyone, I've seen so many repeat 'do I have the grades to do law' and 'what universities can I apply to' questions, I'll just give a definitive guide to answer all of them.
    Please note this is a rough guide, and uni's take into account more than just grades, e.g. personal statement and the LNAT. But here:

    GCSE:
    6A*+ - won't hold you back at oxbridge
    4A*6/7A's+ - will be fine for UCL, LSE, KCL, providing LNAT and A levels go very well. Will struggle at oxford.
    Less than 4A*, or >2B's - Will struggle for oxbridge, UCL, LSE, KCL, durham. Bristol, Warwick, notthingham etc will not hold you back.

    AS levels. (in top 3 subjects)
    AAA over 90UMS - Ideal for oxbridge, LSE, UCL
    AAA under 90UMS - should be ok for UCL (if lnat is good), KCL, Durham etc. Struggle for LSE and oxbridge
    AAB- Struggle for UCL, LSE. KCL, Durham at a stretch with good GCSE/LNAT. Ok for bristol, warwick, nottingham etc.

    A2 Predictions
    A*AA+ - Ok for anything
    AAA - Bristol, warwick, manchester. No chance of LSE, UCL, oxbridge
    AAB and below - any not top 10 law uni.

    Hope this helps
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    No it simply gives a lot of fatuous and misleading information.
    nulli tertius is right. Different admission tutors and colleges/departments have different requirements and expectations of applicants.
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    (Original post by asmuse123)
    nulli tertius is right. Different admission tutors and colleges/departments have different requirements and expectations of applicants.
    Isn't this the law section? Most colleges share fairly similar admissions methods.
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    (Original post by guest115)
    Isn't this the law section? Most colleges share fairly similar admissions methods.
    Not really. What might seem a very good applicant by one college is seen as inadequate by others. That's why Cambridge has the pooling system and Oxford interviews you at two colleges. That's also why UCAS lets you apply to five universities/courses, along with other reasons.
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    (Original post by asmuse123)
    Not really. What might seem a very good applicant by one college is seen as inadequate by others. That's why Cambridge has the pooling system and Oxford interviews you at two colleges. That's also why UCAS lets you apply to five universities/courses, along with other reasons.
    And the vast majority of candidates are not pooled, and end up in their desired college or rejected.

    As I've said, there's more factors involved, but I think the post gives people a rough idea of where to apply to based on their academic grades
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    (Original post by guest115)
    Isn't this the law section? Most colleges share fairly similar admissions methods.
    You have said that AAA at AS with under 90% UMS will struggle for Oxbridge admissions. Oxford has never collected UMS scores, so they wouldn't even know. Likewise the reference to UMS scores for universities other than Cambridge ignores the fact that this information is not collected by these universities.

    This posting could only be for the benefit of applicants for 2017 or afterwards, but those candidates will not have AS as part of their A levels. They will be doing linear A levels at the end of year 13. Accordingly all the information about AS is irrelevant.

    Oxbridge admit students every year with fewer GCSE A* grades than you regard as the minimum.

    Your suggestion that someone without a prediction of A*AA stands no chance at Oxford is nonsense.

    Your passing reference to LNAT distorts because it underplays the significance of that test for those universities which use it.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You have said that AAA at AS with under 90% UMS will struggle for Oxbridge admissions. Oxford has never collected UMS scores, so they wouldn't even know. Likewise the reference to UMS scores for universities other than Cambridge ignores the fact that this information is not collected by these universities.

    This posting could only be for the benefit of applicants for 2017 or afterwards, but those candidates will not have AS as part of their A levels. They will be doing linear A levels at the end of year 13. Accordingly all the information about AS is irrelevant.

    Oxbridge admit students every year with fewer GCSE A* grades than you regard as the minimum.

    Your suggestion that someone without a prediction of A*AA stands no chance at Oxford is nonsense.

    Your passing reference to LNAT distorts because it underplays the significance of that test for those universities which use it.
    1.Reference ums scores naturally do aid your application, and also with Less than 90 at AS, it's less likely you'll achieve over 90 at A2
    2.the AS results are useful for those taking a gap year this academic cycle
    3. For law that is unlikely, yet not impossible as there are exceptions to every rule, hence this is a rough guide
    4. Cambridge minimum requirements are A*AA and they will get a tonne of applicants with much more. Oxford is officially AAA but again most candidates had much more
    5. Nowhere do I play down the importance of the lnat

    If you can actually disprove anything I've said, I'm willing to here it and edit the post. I you can't, please stop trying to find fault in everything
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    (Original post by guest115)
    1.Reference ums scores naturally do aid your application, and also with Less than 90 at AS, it's less likely you'll achieve over 90 at A2
    You did not read what I said. Universities don't have the information so cannot take it into account.


    2.the AS results are useful for those taking a gap year this academic cycle

    Those people already have their A level results and see 1 above.

    3. For law that is unlikely, yet not impossible as there are exceptions to every rule, hence this is a rough guide

    It isn't a rule and we are not talking about odd exceptions here. A significant minority will score no better than AAA.


    4. Cambridge minimum requirements are A*AA and they will get a tonne of applicants with much more. Oxford is officially AAA but again most candidates had much more

    Most candidates will have more, but let me remind you what you said

    "No chance of ...oxbridge"

    That is simply untrue


    5. Nowhere do I play down the importance of the lnat

    Playing down the importance of something does not involve someone saying that they give something little importance. Saying little about something of extreme importance is ipso facto playing down its importance.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You did not read what I said. Universities don't have the information so cannot take it into account.

    Teachers often mention high ums scores in the reference, meaning universities do have this information. There are also FOI requests which give the average ums scores of successful candidates, and for one reason or another, it's above 90 in the top 3 subjects





    Those people already have their A level results and see 1 above.

    Yes so it's helpful for them to look at both the as and a2 section, as they've done both



    It isn't a rule and we are not talking about odd exceptions here. A significant minority will score no better than AAA.

    Cambridge won't allow anyone in who hasn't scored A*AA, aside from extenuating circumstances. Therefore, it is a rule for Cambridge. If you wish I will revise the Oxford comment, as it Is less clear cut with them




    Most candidates will have more, but let me remind you what you said

    "No chance of ...oxbridge"

    That is simply untrue

    No chance of Cambridge yes, not sure how you're disagreeing with that.



    Playing down the importance of something does not involve someone saying that they give something little importance. Saying little about something of extreme importance is ipso facto playing down its importance.
    I mention the lnat twice, each time stating its importance as an external factor. You're stretching it to find fault with that
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    (Original post by guest115)

    Teachers often mention high ums scores in the reference, meaning universities do have this information. There are also FOI requests which give the average ums scores of successful candidates, and for one reason or another, it's above 90 in the top 3 subjects
    I am not aware of any successful FOI request other than to Cambridge and Cambridge is exceptional because it requires this information.

    Whilst some teachers mention UMS scores in references, universities know that this is incomplete and partial data and that they cannot draw any conclusions from a failure to give this unrequired information. That means you cannot draw the conclusion that you wish to draw that a UMS score of below a certain level hampers an application.

    Moreover, as it would have been very easy for UCAS to have sought this information from candidates routinely, what is shows is the relative lack of interest in this information from any significant number of universities.

    Yes so it's helpful for them to look at both the as and a2 section, as they've done both
    That is your personal opinion. I do not think you will find any source pointing to the importance of AS results for post A-level applicants.

    Cambridge won't allow anyone in who hasn't scored A*AA, aside from extenuating circumstances. Therefore, it is a rule for Cambridge. If you wish I will revise the Oxford comment, as it Is less clear cut with them
    Be careful. You are confusing three things here. The key thing is that Cambridge will make A*AA offers. If there are any schools left that do not predict A* grades, then candidates with AAA predictions will receive A*AA offers. The Cambridge summer pool is for candidates who do not achieve their offers and some candidates will be fished from that pool despite not getting A*AA.

    The same principle will apply to other universities that make A*AA law offers. They may still be faced with schools who refuse to predict A* and they may let in candidates who fail to reach those offers. Queen Mary requires A*AA but has been in clearing at AAB.

    I mention the lnat twice, each time stating its importance as an external factor. You're stretching it to find fault with that
    This is necessarily subjective but I do not think you have given it the importance it deserves.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I am not aware of any successful FOI request other than to Cambridge and Cambridge is exceptional because it requires this information.

    Whilst some teachers mention UMS scores in references, universities know that this is incomplete and partial data and that they cannot draw any conclusions from a failure to give this unrequired information. That means you cannot draw the conclusion that you wish to draw that a UMS score of below a certain level hampers an application.



    Moreover, as it would have been very easy for UCAS to have sought this information from candidates routinely, what is shows is the relative lack of interest in this information from any significant number of universities.

    I'm not sure where I mention a large number of universities interested in high ums. Of course it is limited to a very small minority of top uni's, mainly Cambridge,and lse (who do recommend candidates displaying ums scores'.






    Be careful. You are confusing three things here. The key thing is that Cambridge will make A*AA offers. If there are any schools left that do not predict A* grades, then candidates with AAA predictions will receive A*AA offers. The Cambridge summer pool is for candidates who do not achieve their offers and some candidates will be fished from that pool despite not getting A*AA.

    I'm not sure what you think I'm confusing. This post is not about those who already have offers, surely by now you're aware of that.
    If candidates have already done their A2's and apply late with AAA, they will not get into Cambridge law, aside from extenuating circumstances.
    Very few schools do not predict a*'s, and it is very unlikely to receive an offer unless you meet the entry requirements with your predictions. Thus it's more of an exception to the rule.

    The same principle will apply to other universities that make A*AA law offers. They may still be faced with schools who refuse to predict A* and they may let in candidates who fail to reach those offers. Queen Mary requires A*AA but has been in clearing at AAB.

    You mention queen mary, however Oxbridge and lse do not use clearing, and ucl have very few spaces, so your example is irrelevant to my original post.


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    (Original post by guest115)
    ..


    I'm not sure where I mention a large number of universities interested in high ums. Of course it is limited to a very small minority of top uni's, mainly Cambridge,and lse (who do recommend candidates displaying ums scores'.






    AAA over 90UMS - Ideal for oxbridge, LSE, UCL
    AAA under 90UMS - should be ok for UCL (if lnat is good), KCL, Durham etc. Struggle for LSE and oxbridge
    I'm not sure what you think I'm confusing
    Because you said:-

    A*AA


    You mention queen mary, however Oxbridge and lse do not use clearing, and ucl have very few spaces, so your example is irrelevant to my original post.
    I think you are being deliberately obtuse here, Cambridge's summer pool proves that Cambridge accepts "near misses". I was using the example of QMU to show another A*AA university accepts near misses. On occasion, other leading universities also accept "near misses". However, as they do not operate a pool or enter clearing, there isn't the same visibility for the fact they take students who miss their offers.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)


    'AAA over 90UMS - Ideal for oxbridge, LSE, UCLAAA under 90UMS - should be ok for UCL (if lnat is good), KCL, Durham etc. Struggle for LSE and oxbridge'

    Are you quoting this to support your argument or mine? I only said struggle for LSE and oxbridge, and make the point that under 90ums is fine for KCL, Durham, etc. 3 universities is certainly a big minority.




    Because you said:-


    I think you are being deliberately obtuse here, Cambridge's summer pool proves that Cambridge accepts "near misses". I was using the example of QMU to show another A*AA university accepts near misses. On occasion, other leading universities also accept "near misses". However, as they do not operate a pool or enter clearing, there isn't the same visibility for the fact they take students who miss their offers.
    At the LSE law open day talk last september, they specifically mentioned it is very unlikely for candidates to have missed their grades to be accepted, however they are still considered by the admissions tutor. I would suggest it is a minority figure who are accepted, and those who are have extenuating circumstances.

    QM is far less competitive than cambridge, so not a great example. They will naturally offer many more clearing places, and also will need to fill spaces where candidates have rejected QM. Cambridge will likely not have this issue. Although a generalisation, it is also more likely that the cambridge applicant will achieve A*AA than the QM applicant - hence the greater leniency shown by QM.
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    (Original post by guest115)
    I would suggest it is a minority figure who are accepted, and those who are have extenuating circumstances.
    Of course it is a minority. A minority means fewer than 50%

    Cambridge will likely not have this issue.
    Not only does Cambridge have the issue, it has a unique system, the summer pool, for managing the issue.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Of course it is a minority. A minority means fewer than 50%



    Not only does Cambridge have the issue, it has a unique system, the summer pool, for managing the issue.
    I don't think many people would rationally argue that cambridge has a notable problem of law candidates rejecting their university, its much more likely that QM will have more rejections.

    Judging by the level of nit picking I assume the arguments over?
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    (Original post by guest115)
    I don't think many people would rationally argue that cambridge has a notable problem of law candidates rejecting their university, its much more likely that QM will have more rejections.

    Judging by the level of nit picking I assume the arguments over?

    You have worn me down. You are spouting rubbish. You are changing the goalposts, every time I tell you are spouting rubbish and I will leave it to the judgement of readers of the thread whether you have any clue about this.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You have worn me down. You are spouting rubbish. You are changing the goalposts, every time I tell you are spouting rubbish and I will leave it to the judgement of readers of the thread whether you have any clue about this.
    How come you're so heated? I thought you're a lawyer. Aren't you supposed to be calm, cool and collected?
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    (Original post by Nameless Ghoul)
    How come you're so heated? I thought you're a lawyer. Aren't you supposed to be calm, cool and collected?
    Probably!

    I got annoyed when something went wrong with a complex response (not the OP's fault).

    I do not think the OP is a troll, but I dislike folk who send an argument off on a tangent.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Probably!

    I got annoyed when something went wrong with a complex response (not the OP's fault).

    I do not think the OP is a troll, but I dislike folk who send an argument off on a tangent.
    Talking about tangents you seemed much keener on disagreeing with everything I had to say, rather than actually providing readers proof to disprove my initial post.
    You argue with minor points and provide exceptions, but largely you haven't said anything to suggest the post provides incorrect advice to applicants.
 
 
 
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