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Economic Sanctions on Russia vs Boycott on Israel watch

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    Isn't it funny that there was no fuss about publicly funded institutions imposing economic sanctions on Russia over the conflict in Ukraine but when it comes to half a dozen public bodies boycotting Israel about their numerous human rights violations, well that's just wrong apparently.

    I understand that public bodies were legally obliged to implement these economic sanctions determined by central government and the European Union but you'd think the UK government would have some humility about cutting ties with countries that occupy others.

    Please take a gander at the government website below that outlines the actual sanctions that were placed against Russia because some of them are identical to what local government, quangos and publicly funded institutions will not be allowed to boycott under the new proposals that are also below.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/d...nctions-latest
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6874006.html
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    Local councils do not dictate their own foreign policy.

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    If the BDS campaign were merely a campaign for economic sanctions of the type used in the wake of the annexation of Crimea and such, it might actually have some sliver of moral standing. After all, many people do agree that the West Bank settlements are illegal under international law. Unfortunately, the history and naked intent of the BDS movement is to go much further than the sanctions against Russia. The BDS movement has previously advocated and still advocate some things that go pretty far beyond what could be considered a minimum amount of disengagement to encourage compliance with international law. Let's have a look at some of these.

    The Academic Boycott: This essentially advocates cutting off a channel that should always be left open. It makes no distinction between scientific research for the benefit of humanity, and research which might be directly connected to the Israeli military.

    "Before discussing the various categories of academic activities that fall under the boycott call, and as a general overriding rule, it is important to stress that all Israeli academic institutions, unless proven otherwise, are complicit in maintaining the Israeli occupation and denial of basic Palestinian rights, whether through their silence, actual involvement in justifying, whitewashing or otherwise deliberately diverting attention from Israel’s violations of international law and human rights, or indeed through their direct collaboration with state agencies in the design and commission of these violations"

    In plain English, if you are associated with an Israeli academic institution in any capacity you are automatically guilty and thus a legitimate target of the boycott. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    The Russian sanctions don't involve any form of academic disengagement, though there are some articles suggesting those universities have had trouble acquiring 'dual-use' goods that could feasibly be used in military applications; since restrictions have been placed on the export of those.

    The Consumer Boycott: Makes no distinction between products produced in Israel or the West Bank, although some campaigns in the UK have only targeted the latter to have a veneer of legitimacy.

    The Cultural Boycott: Another policy with no mirror in Russian sanctions. This is even less explicit than the academic boycott in its goals, but the idea is that if you host Israeli musicians and artists or go to Israel to perform, in any capacity, you are somehow enabling human rights violations. Skip to the second-to-last paragraph if you're under mistaken impression they're more moderate than that.

    Divestment: Starts off almost reasonable "Divestment calls for the withdrawal of stocks and funds from corporations complicit in the violation of international law and Palestinian rights". Later, "There are a variety of funds in which individuals and constituents hold considerable stake and influence such as churches, unions, universities" uh oh we're back on the loony train.

    Sanctions: Oh look the only section which mirrors western sanctions against Russia.

    Military Embargo: Actually more severe than the Russian sanctions since it forbids the supply of dual-use goods regardless of end usage.

    In summary:

    Russian sanctions: A limited set of economic measures designed to weaken the power of certain Russian individuals and institutions and put pressure on Russia to end its occupation of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Though they have weakened the Russian economy they don't specifically target civilians that don't have significant political, military or economic power. You can still trade with Russia, hold Russian cultural exchanges, and cooperate with Russian academics.

    Israeli settlements in the West Bank and occupation of Gaza: Illegal under international law. There is justification for sanctions against Israel on these grounds, though due to the geopolitical landscape in the Middle East it's unlikely they would ever happen.

    BDS: An extremist movement made up of borderline lunatics that seeks a complete academic, cultural and economic blackout of relations with Israel. It makes no distinction between civilians and institutions regardless of their level of influence, or the purpose of their activities. In its 'logic' it uses plenty of arguments which effectively deny the human rights of Israelis; guilt by association, guilty until proven innocent. Their literature reads like a thinly-veiled hate campaign, which is essentially what it is.

    Well, subtracting my absolute disgust for the academic boycott and language on that website, another interpretation is that BDS is nothing more than a propaganda campaign. The ultimate goal is to swing public opinion just enough to increase the urgency of finding a settlement and elevate Palestine's position. The anti-Semites and corduroy-jacketed lefty academics, as Boris Johnson put it, are just useful idiots. And no one wants public money spent on this **** OP. Stuff it.
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    To be honest, I would lift the sanctions on Russia


    I don't like Putin, I don't like what he stands for, but when I our friends (i.e. Turkey) are funding Islamic State, bombing Kurdish people and threatening to send millions of migrants into Europe unless we give them money, I think our enemies are worse than our friends.


    Perhaps it's time to accept that the Cold War has ended and side with all countries which are dedicated to destroying terrorists such as Israel and Russia.
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    (Original post by Unkempt_One)
    If the BDS campaign were merely a campaign for economic sanctions of the type used in the wake of the annexation of Crimea and such, it might actually have some sliver of moral standing. After all, many people do agree that the West Bank settlements are illegal under international law. Unfortunately, the history and naked intent of the BDS movement is to go much further than the sanctions against Russia. The BDS movement has previously advocated and still advocate some things that go pretty far beyond what could be considered a minimum amount of disengagement to encourage compliance with international law. Let's have a look at some of these.

    The Academic Boycott: This essentially advocates cutting off a channel that should always be left open. It makes no distinction between scientific research for the benefit of humanity, and research which might be directly connected to the Israeli military.

    "Before discussing the various categories of academic activities that fall under the boycott call, and as a general overriding rule, it is important to stress that all Israeli academic institutions, unless proven otherwise, are complicit in maintaining the Israeli occupation and denial of basic Palestinian rights, whether through their silence, actual involvement in justifying, whitewashing or otherwise deliberately diverting attention from Israel’s violations of international law and human rights, or indeed through their direct collaboration with state agencies in the design and commission of these violations"

    In plain English, if you are associated with an Israeli academic institution in any capacity you are automatically guilty and thus a legitimate target of the boycott. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    The Russian sanctions don't involve any form of academic disengagement, though there are some articles suggesting those universities have had trouble acquiring 'dual-use' goods that could feasibly be used in military applications; since restrictions have been placed on the export of those.

    The Consumer Boycott: Makes no distinction between products produced in Israel or the West Bank, although some campaigns in the UK have only targeted the latter to have a veneer of legitimacy.

    The Cultural Boycott: Another policy with no mirror in Russian sanctions. This is even less explicit than the academic boycott in its goals, but the idea is that if you host Israeli musicians and artists or go to Israel to perform, in any capacity, you are somehow enabling human rights violations. Skip to the second-to-last paragraph if you're under mistaken impression they're more moderate than that.

    Divestment: Starts off almost reasonable "Divestment calls for the withdrawal of stocks and funds from corporations complicit in the violation of international law and Palestinian rights". Later, "There are a variety of funds in which individuals and constituents hold considerable stake and influence such as churches, unions, universities" uh oh we're back on the loony train.

    Sanctions: Oh look the only section which mirrors western sanctions against Russia.

    Military Embargo: Actually more severe than the Russian sanctions since it forbids the supply of dual-use goods regardless of end usage.

    In summary:

    Russian sanctions: A limited set of economic measures designed to weaken the power of certain Russian individuals and institutions and put pressure on Russia to end its occupation of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Though they have weakened the Russian economy they don't specifically target civilians that don't have significant political, military or economic power. You can still trade with Russia, hold Russian cultural exchanges, and cooperate with Russian academics.

    Israeli settlements in the West Bank and occupation of Gaza: Illegal under international law. There is justification for sanctions against Israel on these grounds, though due to the geopolitical landscape in the Middle East it's unlikely they would ever happen.

    BDS: An extremist movement made up of borderline lunatics that seeks a complete academic, cultural and economic blackout of relations with Israel. It makes no distinction between civilians and institutions regardless of their level of influence, or the purpose of their activities. In its 'logic' it uses plenty of arguments which effectively deny the human rights of Israelis; guilt by association, guilty until proven innocent. Their literature reads like a thinly-veiled hate campaign, which is essentially what it is.

    Well, subtracting my absolute disgust for the academic boycott and language on that website, another interpretation is that BDS is nothing more than a propaganda campaign. The ultimate goal is to swing public opinion just enough to increase the urgency of finding a settlement and elevate Palestine's position. The anti-Semites and corduroy-jacketed lefty academics, as Boris Johnson put it, are just useful idiots. And no one wants public money spent on this **** OP. Stuff it.
    I always have a good chuckle at the idea of European academics boycotting Israel when you compare the productivity of Israeli PhD holders with that of European ones.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Local councils do not dictate their own foreign policy.

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    "their" is whose?
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    Political Ambassador
    There is a clear distinction between a central government pursuing foreign policy, for which it is responsible for, and a local council pursuing its own foreign policy, despite having no authority to do so.
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    (Original post by questionmark15)
    Isn't it funny that there was no fuss about publicly funded institutions imposing economic sanctions on Russia over the conflict in Ukraine but when it comes to half a dozen public bodies boycotting Israel about their numerous human rights violations
    Not really. The sanctions on Russia are determined by our national government, an area of policy that is and should be solely within the purview of the executive.

    The bodies that are seeking to boycott Israel are local councils, who are not entitled to run their own foreign policy. If they want to do so, they should stand for a seat in the House of Commons and make their case there.
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    Listen to this Former-Jew

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    (Original post by Unkempt_One)
    The Academic Boycott: This essentially advocates cutting off a channel that should always be left open. It makes no distinction between scientific research for the benefit of humanity, and research which might be directly connected to the Israeli military.
    Well said. The academic and cultural boycott gets to the heart of the xenophobia and anti-semitism of the BDS movement.

    They call for Israeli musicians and filmmakers to be boycotted not for anything they've personally done, but purely because they are Israeli. That is treating someone detrimentally based on their nationality; in other words, illegal discrimination.

    Furthermore, Israeli Arabs are not subject to these boycotts, which means they are boycotting people purely based on the fact of their Jewish identity. And then they complain when they are called out on their anti-semitism?
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    "their" is whose?
    What?
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    There's an important distinction between Russia and Israel which is that Russia has annexed states seeking to integrate with the west while Israel is holding strips of land full of poor Arab's with a propensity to commit terrorism.

    It's in our self interest to back one but not t'other.
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    The purpose of a boycott is to make light of an injustice; as you have made clear there are some big distinctions between how they are achieving in this in the case of Russia and in the case of Israel. But the point is boycotts are being condoned for one and not for the other, despite them being equally worrying in regards to human welfare. The cultural boycott you mentioned is unfair against Israeli artists agreed, however anti-Russian sentiment pervades throughout western culture and I am sure that has influenced people’s attitudes towards Russianpeople also.

    In regards to the effects of these boycotts on individuals it is bad, but at the end of the day, how are people going to make a stand against a regime if their government is not willing to condemn significant political figures from that regime… the only way they can civilly (new favourite word)… by boycotting individuals or companies who associate.
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    (Original post by MostUnciviIised)
    Not really. The sanctions on Russia are determined by our national government, an area of policy that is and should be solely within the purview of the executive.

    The bodies that are seeking to boycott Israel are local councils, who are not entitled to run their own foreign policy. If they want to do so, they should stand for a seat in the House of Commons and make their case there.
    Local councils are in a better position to reflect the views of the people whom they serve, but more importantly, what about Universities, can't they boycott ?
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    (Original post by questionmark15)
    The purpose of a boycott is to make light of an injustice
    Justice is done in court, mate. And the boycott is a political matter: you just support one side of the conflict and dislike the other side. Of course you have such right. But the right assumes responsibility and reasonability.
    This week an Israeli firm (Ravello) was sold to Oracle. Nothing was changed but the ownership. Are you going now to boycott Oracle?
    Two leading Israeli universities - Weizmann Institute of Science and Technion (Israel Institute of Technology) - are working to developed cancer cure. Do you support boycott of these universities?
    Israeli farmers are working in harsh conditions: limited water supply, incredible heat, dust storms. And they are proud by their production and are happy to provide fresh vegetables and fruits in the middle of European winter. Now tell me please: why the hell these products should be bought by people like you, who dislike or maybe hate Israel?
    So, please, stand firmly and don't buy Israeli goods. You want justice? Let Israeli goods boycott you.
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Justice is done in court, mate. And the boycott is a political matter: you just support one side of the conflict and dislike the other side. Of course you have such right. But the right assumes responsibility and reasonability.
    This week an Israeli firm (Ravello) was sold to Oracle. Nothing was changed but the ownership. Are you going now to boycott Oracle?
    Two leading Israeli universities - Weizmann Institute of Science and Technion (Israel Institute of Technology) - are working to developed cancer cure. Do you support boycott of these universities?
    Israeli farmers are working in harsh conditions: limited water supply, incredible heat, dust storms. And they are proud by their production and are happy to provide fresh vegetables and fruits in the middle of European winter. Now tell me please: why the hell these products should be bought by people like you, who dislike or maybe hate Israel?
    So, please, stand firmly and don't buy Israeli goods. You want justice? Let Israeli goods boycott you.
    The world welcomes and applauds the self-imposed boycott of Israeli goods by Israeli firms.

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    (Original post by admonit)
    Let Israeli goods boycott you.
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    The world welcomes and applauds the self-imposed boycott of Israeli goods by Israeli firms.
    "you" means you, my quick-witted friend. :cool:
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    Can't speak as to the sanctions on Russia, but the UNSC-imposed sanctions on Serbia in the 1990s called for more or less everything BDS campaigns for and more - and mandated it upon all UN states, rather than simply pushing for it through a grassroots campaign movement.
 
 
 
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