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If you had complete control over our education system, how would you handle it? watch

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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    This is what I hate about the Grammar system. The pressure it puts on young children.
    But most of the kids will have alreadty done one set of SATs, have another coming up a few months after the enterance exams, will probably have end of year exams at secondary school and may have had them at primary schools. They will have more SATS in three years, GCSEs after that and A-levels after that.

    The education system is very exam orientated, so to tkae an exam at 11 is good practice.

    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    But most of the kids will have alreadty done one set of SATs, have another coming up a few months after the enterance exams, will probably have end of year exams at secondary school and may have had them at primary schools. They will have more SATS in three years, GCSEs after that and A-levels after that.

    The education system is very exam orientated, so to tkae an exam at 11 is good practice.
    At eleven, I would say that children are not emotionally ready for such a potentially life-altering test.
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    At eleven, I would say that children are not emotionally ready for such a potentially life-altering test.
    The system has worked for hundreds of years. All Grammars and most Independants have enterance exams. In the 50's and before everyone took an 11 plus. Or do you not think children these days are as capable as children of the 18th/19th early 20th century.

    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    The system has worked for hundreds of years. All Grammars and most Independants have enterance exams. In the 50's and before everyone took an 11 plus. Or do you not think children these days are as capable as children of the 18th/19th early 20th century.
    I'm thinking of emotional stress, UNNECESSARY emotional stress.
    Your argument of "the system has worked for hundred of years" is invalid. As there are many examples, such as the death penalty, which "worked" but have been changed.
    It has nothing to do with ability, as tests change with time anyway.
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    As I have said- we don't have grammar schools in my area (think my county abolished that system?) but I don't feel deprived ...there is a range of pupils of different levels of academic ability and of course a handful very irritating-no-work-doing-trouble-makers but their presense doesn't make it impossible for others to perform-there are lots of high acheivers at my school- basically if you want to learn and get the grades you can! For starters, a lot of subjects are set (not enough though! I was very irritated when they put arts into mixed ability half way through the year- I can understand why they changed the system but it should have been set for effort atleast! *grumbles*), so you don't always have to put up with the people who don't want to learn...
    There will always be the sterotypes at school but I think opinions always depend on what sort of person you are...ok, so there are a few people who get called 'Boffs' etc, but that is perhaps to do with their attitudes as much as their intelligence (?)...and just because one 'group' might think badly of another doesn't mean the entire school thinks a certain person to be a 'stig'/'boff'/'tart' etc...I know a lot of intelligent people who are not disliked or thought of as 'sad' for doing well academically...and if there are people with that opinion then it's likely to be those who can't be arsed to put any effort into anything at school- and to be honest most people wouldn't care if they were given flimsy insults by people they've never had any respect for anyway...
    (Original post by It'sPhil...)
    Comprehensives are full of chavvas who do nothing but start fights, disrupt classes and generally cause trouble. I'm glad i don't have to put up with these people.
    There are a fair share however as I have said- there's a lot of people- 1000 odd in my school, and despite a reasonable percentage being total **some swear word to suit**s there are loads of very nice, very intelligent people aswell...and as I have said- sets do the trick (although form time is admittidly very tedious...)

    However having put my case up in defense of my schooling I totally appreciate the Grammar school scheme...It seems a good idea to me and attending a grammar school would propbably greatly reduce my home-moans after irriating lessons...(? )

    (Original post by Leekey)
    I do agree that people should be given the choice at an earlier age as to what they would prefer to do
    Perhaps...but I think chosing GCSEs is set at reasonably good time- you need to have studied a range of subjects for a few years before chosing which suits your needs, that way you know what the subject will entail and whether you perform well in it etc etc...
    What really p***** me off is having to continue subjects such as R.E. throughout our GCSEs- valuable periods that could be spent improving knowledge and coursework etc for your real options are wasted on these subjects that will probably have little relevance or use to our future career options etc...

    Hmmm...well I have mumbled on for a while, and I'll prob reread this later to see I have totally misrepresented myself...ah well...


    Egan

    well in my school (comprehensive) we have those ppl who are really intelligent (9a*and 1a at gcse) and a at aslevel , and they also excel at sports and are on most teams
    when it comes to end of yr assemblies its always the same faces that go up for certificates trophies etc
    so you could say that we have at kinda cross-breed of ppl -jocks and boffs - 'perfect combo'
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    i'm not against grammar schools as such but I don't necessarily think they are better than the comps. For example people that get loads of A* at a grammar school will proabably get similar results at a comp. Also I know people that went to the grammar and ended up in the bottom sets and were largely ignored cos the focus was generally on the top achievers. Also they felt like failures when they couldn't compete with the genius type people As a result they lost motivation and just scrapped their 5 a-c's. Perhaps if they were at a comp and in the top 2 sets they might have done better.

    On the other hand, the competitive environment is probably good encouragement for some people. Also if the local comp is a bit crappy then it's good that people that want to do well get the opportunity to go to a good school.

    I feel really sorry for people that have gone to a comp and have been targeted cos their clever. My school's not perfect but i've never really seen anyone being bullied for being clever. It sort of went the other way in my year and was a sort of status symbol to be in all the top sets. Also cos the top sets were stuffed full especially in english where there were 2 equal top sets, it wasn't really a minority thing. Out of 1500 kids there are obviously some dregs( to be honest loads in 9-11 year) but they tended to get the abuse rather than the people that succeed. Also cos the school starts at year 9 -13 I think people are a bit more mature. I would hate to be surounded by year 7's
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    (Original post by emom100)
    . Also I know people that went to the grammar and ended up in the bottom sets and were largely ignored cos the focus was generally on the top achievers. Also they felt like failures when they couldn't compete with the genius type people As a result they lost motivation and just scrapped their 5 a-c's. Perhaps if they were at a comp and in the top 2 sets they might have done better.
    I totally agree with you there. I generally don't do well in a class where I'm near the bottom. When you're at the top you have more confidence and do better. My school really focuses on the clever people.

    As to whoever though that the 11 plus is stressfull, did you even do it. It is the least stressful exam ever. And I don't remember being aware of the repurcusions of failing it and I felt no pressure even though my mum is the queen of pressure. The 11 plus is not an emotional strain on anyone......except possibly whoever's marking it when they really wanna be watching Eastenders.

    (Original post by byb3)
    still, they were able to afford it before. Its a vote winner if you ask me.
    You're dead right there I'm sure, but there are some problems; firstly there are a lot more students now than before, and secondly the majority of students still come from middle class backgrounds. This means that giving grants to students would actually be a huge give away to "the middle classes"!
    Wouldnt it be better to give grants to poor students, a small grant and a loan to students whose parents are on middle incomes and loans at full commercial interest rates to students who are well off enough that their parents can easily support them? What makes me mad are students from wealthy families whose parents support them, but they take the loan anyway and stash it away in the building society so that they make a profit, or like one girl I know who spent her student loan on a breast implant - no kidding! Low paid workers in shops and call centres are paying taxes subsidising this lot!!!

    (Original post by Toyosi)
    If you're trying to say that grammar school students think they're better then you're wrong.. At the end of the day its all about choice. Why is the government trying to lump everyone into the same catergory. If people want to go to grammar schools why shouldn't they? If comprehensive school students do just as well then what's the problem? Its just a different type of school and they are open to everyone unlike private schools. GS aren't still in the age of middle class clever white so I'm not sure the socially diverse argument is very good. There are loads of ethnic minoritys at my school which is quite good considering its in Lincolnshire, land of the white farmer. I can't think of any good reason why grammar schools should be abolished. If there are good reasons then I'd like to know them.
    The biggest problem is that the method of selecting children for grammar school just isnt fair. Children from better off more "educated" backgrounds perform much better in these tests than children of similar intelligence who come from disadvantged backgrounds. Middle class parents know how to help their children from an early age to become good readers and to develop their vocabulary, they teach them to think in a logical way, they make sure they do their homework properly and many give them extra work to do (you've only to see all the workbooks sold for children at Smiths) or send them for coaching. They send them for music lessons and swimming and tennis so the children learn to concentrate and practise, and so they learn to persevere with things till they improve. Most scandalous of all many well off parents send their children to a private primary school, quite openly, so that they will be more likely to pass to a grammar school! The majority of people at grammar schools are not super intelligent they are just average or above intelligence and have had a lot of advantages.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    If you see what I mean (probably not, words are feeble objects when used to express thoughts).
    No no no no no!!!! Words are only feeble if you don't know how to use them. Perhaps you should start turning up to your English lessons.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    Not to sound pretentious, but they are. Grammar schools are like the very top set of the state education system, that's the whole idea of them.
    Grammar schools are unfair. Performance in the eleven plus exam can be improved by private tuition and the emphasis placed on the importance of education by parents and primary schools etc.
    I personally would like to see all forms of elitist education abolished, grammar schools, private schools as the quality of education should not depend on parents ability to pay. If these institutions were abolished it would place children on a level (ish) playing field and help to get the right people in the right vocations. I also think a greater emphasis should be placed on vocational subjects as there is an increasing skills shortage in the UK. Too many people are being forced into the academic route, there is often a stigma attached to vocational occupations such as electricians and plumbers.
    And grammar schools can't be the very top of the state education system, they don't exist in most parts of the country. Do the brightest children in the UK all live in Kent? I don't think so
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    (Original post by Trousers)
    No no no no no!!!! Words are only feeble if you don't know how to use them. Perhaps you should start turning up to your English lessons.
    Words can be used in an amazing way, but never to full express the inner thoughts of the mind.
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    I would cut out all the unnecessary paperwork so that teachers can go ahead and teach.

    Also I would make secondary school a year less. Think about it, isn't Year 8 just a repeat of Year 7? There's no need for it! It's a waste of a year. I did a really good speech on this in my GCSE English oral exam, saying how it would cut costs and improve the standards of our schoolkids. What do you reckon?
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    I'd put a hell of a lot more money into careers services (for example my careers adviser had me down as a curator - even though I was studying maths, physics and chemistry and hadn't even studied history GCSE :rolleyes: ). He really didn't have a clue and the careers library was pretty poorly stocked too.

    The government has made a start with the connexions service but I'd like to see it extended and improved more - I'd like to see them recruit more recent graduates/school leavers to act as mentors to students taking GCSEs/A levels/choosing universities. I'd like to see a greater online presence (like an official connexions version of the BBC radio 1 onelife site plus a decent open chat room/forum which is moderated by careers/life advisers who can also offer confidential advice/help via pm).

    TBH though I agree with the government policy of putting the bulk of education spending into the under 5s - it's the only thing that can be fully justified, it's just a shame it wasn't started 20-25 yrs ago by the torys (after all it's been proven that every £1 spend on pre-schoolers is the equivalent of about £50 spent on them in later yrs...anyone would think the torys would jump on it as a money saving way of improving public services and the quality of the Uk workforce).
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    I go to a comp that's second from bottom my borough's league table. I took my 11+ and didn't get in by a couple of marks, but does that mean I'm not as able as kids who go to a grammer school? Although I've had a few bad experiences at my school and witnessed things that I otherwise wouldn't I still would prefer to go to that school than a grammer school (if I had got in) because I know that you get rich kids and poor kids from of all races in a grammer school you still don't have to learn to get along with the really desruptive people who you will inevatibly encounter later on in life. Going to a school such as mine I've had to do this, but I believe that it's made me a more mature person because I've had to put up with people like this from a young age.

    Also the catchment area for my school is the worst school in the borough but luckily I didn't go there because it has an even worse repuation than my school... The rep of my school is the kind that can turn people's faces when you say you go there, it's actually quite funny to watch really and they're like 'oh... you go there?!'

    And yeah being clever at my school isn't 'cool' and I've occasionally been called a 'boff', lol even a 'naughty boff' once, that was my favourite cos I got 100% in a test... but I hadn't done my homework. But saying that people don't want to be thought of as 'thick' ... Actually I don't really know what I'm saying... But I still think that going to a comp does give the student more a broader education and vital life skills.

    One boy at my school he didn't get into the grammer school but at KS3 he got and E.P in science and maths!!!

    One last point, streaming doesn't really work... in the top set for maths people regually get thrown out and disrupt the lesson...
 
 
 
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