Who thinks tuition fees ar BS?
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Original post by Darkphilosopher
Why does it matter, it'll barely effect you once you've finished...
Meh it just does.
*affect
Original post by djh2208
It's called having a principled position rather than trying to promote your own self-interest.
Call it what you will. It's still like Turkeys voting for Christmas. The rest of Europe can invest in their youth, why not England? Why is following the US model so important?
Original post by I_Mir
There are thousands of people who end up saddled with heaps of debt. Its disgusting. University degrees mean less and less as so many people have them these days. I really feel sorry for people who take out huge loans to go to uni and then go and work in low paid jobs that they are overqualified for. Unis are just big money making machines now. Its vile!
Well how do you rationalise your opposing problems with university?
You say degrees mean less and less, but then in the same breath you want them to cost less... surely if they're cheapened in price then more people will want to take degrees in less meaningful subjects since cost won't be a factor?
Original post by mackemforever
It's overpriced is it?
I'm doing a 4 year degree in Electronic Engineering. I get a loan of £9k per year for tuition fees and approximately £3800 per year in maintenance loans.
Over the course of my degree I will take on £51,200 worth of debt.
Working on the average salary progression for graduates in my field, over the 30 years after graduation I will pay a total of just under £50,000 towards my student debt before the remainder and any interest that is built up over the years is written off.
Now, I graduate at 25 and assuming I work to retirement age of 65 that gives me a 40 year career.
To make University financially worth it I need to, over the course of my career, earn at least £50,000 more than I would without a degree, because if my career earnings are at least £50,000 more than they would be if I didn't have the degree then even once you have taken into account my student loan payments I am still financially better off.
Will my degree in Electronic Engineering allow me to earn £1250 more per year than I would be able to without my degree? Of course it will.
Therefore my degree is worth every penny.
I'm doing a 4 year degree in Electronic Engineering. I get a loan of £9k per year for tuition fees and approximately £3800 per year in maintenance loans.
Over the course of my degree I will take on £51,200 worth of debt.
Working on the average salary progression for graduates in my field, over the 30 years after graduation I will pay a total of just under £50,000 towards my student debt before the remainder and any interest that is built up over the years is written off.
Now, I graduate at 25 and assuming I work to retirement age of 65 that gives me a 40 year career.
To make University financially worth it I need to, over the course of my career, earn at least £50,000 more than I would without a degree, because if my career earnings are at least £50,000 more than they would be if I didn't have the degree then even once you have taken into account my student loan payments I am still financially better off.
Will my degree in Electronic Engineering allow me to earn £1250 more per year than I would be able to without my degree? Of course it will.
Therefore my degree is worth every penny.
I said it's overpriced, not impossible to pay off or not worth it.
Original post by Elise213
I said it's overpriced, not impossible to pay off or not worth it.
But if something is worth the money then it's not overpriced.
So either it's overpriced or it's not worth what they're charging, make your mind up.
Original post by I_Mir
There are thousands of people who end up saddled with heaps of debt. Its disgusting. University degrees mean less and less as so many people have them these days. I really feel sorry for people who take out huge loans to go to uni and then go and work in low paid jobs that they are overqualified for. Unis are just big money making machines now. Its vile!
My opinion is social mobility shouldn't be taxed it's as simple as that and that's what tuition fees are.
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Original post by mackemforever
But if something is worth the money then it's not overpriced.
So either it's overpriced or it's not worth what they're charging, make your mind up.
So either it's overpriced or it's not worth what they're charging, make your mind up.
Firstly, if something is overpriced then automatically its not worth what they are charging so what is your point?
Do you think doctors will sit here and say the debt they are in is "worth it" when they are underpaid? At the end of the day people are going to uni knowing it is overpriced but will still go to have an opportunity of getting a decently paid job. Most will not be able to pay back that debt in this lifetime.
People pay 9k a year to chase lecturers down, listen to someone reading off a powerpoint slide and be told they have to use their own money to use a printer. If that is not what you call overpriced then I don't know what is.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by DougallnDougall
Call it what you will. It's still like Turkeys voting for Christmas. The rest of Europe can invest in their youth, why not England? Why is following the US model so important?
Because the current system is fair. There's no reason why you can't invest in your own future rather than forcing other people to do so.
Original post by Elise213
Firstly, if something is overpriced then automatically its not worth what they are charging so what is your point?
Do you think doctors will sit here and say the debt they are in is "worth it" when they are underpaid? At the end of the day people are going to uni knowing it is overpriced but will still go to have an opportunity of getting a decently paid job. Most will not be able to pay back that debt in this lifetime.
People pay 9k a year to chase lecturers down, listen to someone reading off a powerpoint slide and be told they have to use their own money to use a printer. If that is not what you call overpriced then I don't know what is.
Do you think doctors will sit here and say the debt they are in is "worth it" when they are underpaid? At the end of the day people are going to uni knowing it is overpriced but will still go to have an opportunity of getting a decently paid job. Most will not be able to pay back that debt in this lifetime.
People pay 9k a year to chase lecturers down, listen to someone reading off a powerpoint slide and be told they have to use their own money to use a printer. If that is not what you call overpriced then I don't know what is.
You said that it was both overpriced and worth it, and my point is that you're contradicting yourself.
Firstly, whether or not somebody can "pay back that debt in this lifetime" is irrelevant. The debt is written off after 30 years, so I suppose it is relevant but only for those who die before the age of 52 (approximately).
Now we have the problem that you seem to be approaching this from an emotional standpoint, whereas I am looking at it purely financially.
If your degree allows you to earn more over the course of your career than it has cost, then it is financially worth it. You invested a sum of money and that investment enabled you to earn back that sum plus some more, so you have over the course of your career gotten good value from your investment.
Sure, if you asked junior doctors now if their degree was "worth it" I'm sure a lot of them would say no, but I guarantee that very few of them would say that it wasn't worth it due to the cost. A lot of them would say it wasn't worth the time it took them, the stress it caused, the hours they put in, but I bet you'd struggle to find people who cited the cost of it as the main reason why they no longer think it was worth it.
And no I'm not saying that University is financially worth it for everybody, because for it to be worth the financial outlay it needs to enable the student to earn enough extra over the course of their career, when compared to what they would earn without their degree, in order to cover the amount they pay out on their loan, and there are most certainly students who would end up working the exact same job regardless of whether they have a degree or not, and of course for them it's not worth the financial outlay because they are paying for a loan which has granted them no financial benefit.
However the argument of whether it is financially worth it isn't one that can be made emotionally, because it is a stone cold matter of fact. If as a result of your degree you are, over the course of your career, financially better off than you would be without it, it is worth the money.
Original post by Architecture-er
Well how do you rationalise your opposing problems with university?
You say degrees mean less and less, but then in the same breath you want them to cost less... surely if they're cheapened in price then more people will want to take degrees in less meaningful subjects since cost won't be a factor?
You say degrees mean less and less, but then in the same breath you want them to cost less... surely if they're cheapened in price then more people will want to take degrees in less meaningful subjects since cost won't be a factor?
What your saying about if tuition fees were free more peopele would go is common sense but actually do you know that the number of uni students in the uk has risen since tuition fees were implemented? Degrees mean less and less anyway but that does not change the fact they should be free.
Original post by JohnGreek
We need to shut down the ex-polys and send their students back into the coal mines
Original post by paul514
My opinion is social mobility shouldn't be taxed it's as simple as that and that's what tuition fees are.
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No a university education make social mobility possible, it's the money you earn that makes you socially mobile. So by your logic we shouldn't be charging income tax
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Original post by Elise213
Firstly, if something is overpriced then automatically its not worth what they are charging so what is your point?
Do you think doctors will sit here and say the debt they are in is "worth it" when they are underpaid? At the end of the day people are going to uni knowing it is overpriced but will still go to have an opportunity of getting a decently paid job. Most will not be able to pay back that debt in this lifetime.
People pay 9k a year to chase lecturers down, listen to someone reading off a powerpoint slide and be told they have to use their own money to use a printer. If that is not what you call overpriced then I don't know what is.
Do you think doctors will sit here and say the debt they are in is "worth it" when they are underpaid? At the end of the day people are going to uni knowing it is overpriced but will still go to have an opportunity of getting a decently paid job. Most will not be able to pay back that debt in this lifetime.
People pay 9k a year to chase lecturers down, listen to someone reading off a powerpoint slide and be told they have to use their own money to use a printer. If that is not what you call overpriced then I don't know what is.
Don't doctors have cheaper fees? I thought the NHS paid at least some of their tuition fees. Most doctors will earn more than enough to pay any loans back.
You also pay £9k a year for the opportunities you have upon graduation
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Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
No sweetheart I just don't want to leave uni with a ton of debt. I'm sure students who come from a ghetto area of London like me would agree.
Problem?
Problem?
Being from a 'ghetto' area makes it even more important to attain an education, a degree and a high paying career. I say that as someone from Walthamstow, one of the poorest areas in London.
Whether or not a debt is viable is directly in relation to repayments on earnings.
Some studies put graduates as earning £500k more over their lifetimes than non-graduates. So £50k of debt, paid back in tiny instalments, is extremely worthwhile.
Original post by Underscore__
No a university education make social mobility possible, it's the money you earn that makes you socially mobile. So by your logic we shouldn't be charging income tax
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No it's the education that gets you the money so to tax the education is different from income tax
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(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by paul514
No it's the education that gets you the money so to tax the education is different from income tax
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No it's the education that gives you the opportunity to get a better job but it's the job that gets you money
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Original post by Underscore__
No it's the education that gives you the opportunity to get a better job but it's the job that gets you money
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Jesus Christ
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Original post by paul514
Care to expand?
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Original post by Underscore__
No, you understand the point and are being pedantic
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Original post by paul514
I'm not being pedantic. You get paid from a job, plenty of people come out of uni and don't end up getting good jobs so it isn't the degree that gets you money and social mobility.
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