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Gove tells a string of fibs in his "why we should leave the EU" statement watch

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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    He didn't say I am going to wait to see if there is damage and then move.
    He equally didn't say that he wouldn't.

    I think you are choosing to ignore the Could mentioned multiple times throughout the article.

    You've also totally ignored the:

    Any decision to move those jobs would depend on the terms of a British exit from the EU, including the extent to which the UK could continue to access the financial services 'passporting' regime, which allows member states to trade seamlessly across national borders, Mr Gulliver said.

    Which again gives weight to the understanding that jobs wouldn't automatically move entirely based on just an Out-Vote.. as you've tried to suggest they would.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    You claimed we'd have no mechanism to co-operate with Europe if we left the EU.
    I proved your statement to be patently false. The EU is not required for us to co-operate with Europe. I've made nothing up; that's a straw man on your part.
    Pretty sure s/he didn't state that as s/he's already made fairly clear.

    You've confused "cooperation with Europe will be harder" with "there is no possible way to cooperate with Europe" and bashed the latter down.

    What was that about a straw man?
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    Why on earth would u want to be governed and bound by unelected people who you wouldnt even recognise if you walked past them in the street and who's interests are not the UK's?
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Why on earth would u want to be governed and bound by unelected people who you wouldnt even recognise if you walked past them in the street and who's interests are not the UK's?
    1) Who are those unelected people?

    2) What exactly is governing and binding you right now that you don't like?
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    (Original post by Reue)
    He equally didn't say that he wouldn't.

    I think you are choosing to ignore the Could mentioned multiple times throughout the article.

    You've also totally ignored the:

    Any decision to move those jobs would depend on the terms of a British exit from the EU, including the extent to which the UK could continue to access the financial services 'passporting' regime, which allows member states to trade seamlessly across national borders, Mr Gulliver said.

    Which again gives weight to the understanding that jobs wouldn't automatically move entirely based on just an Out-Vote.. as you've tried to suggest they would.
    You are choosing to take the "could" out of context.

    They will move jobs out of the UK since a Brexit could cause damage.

    Sure, I ignored it. That part is meaningless since there have been no discussions with regards to that situation. As it stands, it has no bearing on whether 1000 jobs will move or not.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Yes, in the situation that there COULD be damage to HSBC then he would move jobs.

    He didn't say I am going to wait to see if there is damage and then move.
    It's exactly what he is saying though...

    He said that in the event of brexit there COULD be damage. IF there is damage there would be jobs moved. Tell me how exactly they determine if there is any damage without waiting to see if there is any damage.

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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    I said you have no evidence that Britain would have any mechanism on how we would cooperate on common issues such as Energy once we leave the EU.

    I didn't say after we leave the EU, the world is coming to end and all cooperation will cease.
    The fact that the UK is still able to co-operate with European nations on a wide range of issue without any input of the EU?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's exactly what he is saying though...

    He said that in the event of brexit there COULD be damage. IF there is damage there would be jobs moved. Tell me how exactly they determine if there is any damage without waiting to see if there is any damage.

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    No, he didn't say that.

    He did not say "IF there is damage" then they will move.

    He said since there could be damage, they would move.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    You are choosing to take the "could" out of context.
    Again ironic because thats exactly what you seem to be doing to me
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    (Original post by Reue)
    Again ironic because thats exactly what you seem to be doing to me
    Well, I think we are just reading the same thing in different ways. That is all.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    The fact that the UK is still able to co-operate with European nations on a wide range of issue without any input of the EU?
    Again, that is not mechanism on how it will happen.

    Saying that the UK will magically cooperate does not replace not being part of EU institutions on energy, finance and etc.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, I think we are just reading the same thing in different ways. That is all.
    Perhaps. But then I'm not trying to use what we've proven to be an extremely subjective comment as proof of a certainty...
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    (Original post by paddy25)
    1) Who are those unelected people?

    2) What exactly is governing and binding you right now that you don't like?
    28 EU council members - 750 odd MEPS of which about 50 are elected by Britain
    http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-mak...s/index_en.htm


    Things like small business having to revamp their whole shop at a huge expense to comply to EU rules whilst smaller EU nations dont even bother

    Small businesses like farms not being allowed to to put 6 eggs they just sold in the egg basket the customer brought with him due to EU laws on re using egg boxes lol

    And you cant even send an strongly worded letter to anyone who can control it lmao

    There are hundreds of examples like this dreamt up by non elected Brits sat in a luxury hotel conferences eating caviar and champagne paid for by our £55m PER DAY along with their huge celeries
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    (Original post by Reue)
    Perhaps. But then I'm not trying to use what we've proven to be an extremely subjective comment as proof of a certainty...
    Perhaps. I am more than happy to admit that I took an off the cuff comment by one HSBC man too seriously.
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    (Original post by paddy25)
    Pretty sure s/he didn't state that as s/he's already made fairly clear.

    You've confused "cooperation with Europe will be harder" with "there is no possible way to cooperate with Europe" and bashed the latter down.

    What was that about a straw man?
    I've not confused anything. DoriaGrayism's stance has already been clarified and it changes little since I still disagree and the points still stand, but thanks for your completely unwanted snarky input on the matter.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Again, that is not mechanism on how it will happen.

    Saying that the UK will magically cooperate does not replace not being part of EU institutions on energy, finance and etc.
    You consider the concepts of diplomacy and negotiation to be magic?
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    You consider the concepts of diplomacy and negotiation to be magic?
    Well, you just state the words as if that means that it will magically lead to the same level of Cooperation.

    Saying negotiation and diplomacy does not provide a framework for us to exert the same amount of influence within these organisations once we are outside it.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    No, he didn't say that.

    He did not say "IF there is damage" then they will move.

    He said since there could be damage, they would move.
    "In that situation a number of jobs would leave the UK."

    That's a reaction to an event, not an action in case of an event

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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, you just state the words as if that means that it will magically lead to the same level of Cooperation.

    Saying negotiation and diplomacy does not provide a framework for us to exert the same amount of influence within these organisations once we are outside it.
    I'm sure our bureaucrats will earn their paydays. They've been quite effective thus so far in ensuring that the UK remains internationally influential in so many fields.
    What areas do you believe the UK will suffer in if it was to leave the EU?
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    (Original post by iEthan)
    TeeEm's right… but then again… a very large majority of people in the country are of the opinion that Gove is a moronic idiot anyway so I doubt his opinion carries much weight…
    Sadly some people do listen to him, even though listening never seemed to be a skill of his whilst he was Secretary of State for Education. Other than Boris, he is the only Tory MP on the Leave side whose views however factually incorrect will be taken much notice of.

    Even though as you point out he is hated by many.
 
 
 
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