Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

VS10 - Retaliative action against Daesh watch

  • View Poll Results: Should this statement of intent be approved?
    As many are of the opinion, Aye
    33.33%
    On the contrary, No
    43.75%
    Abstain
    22.92%

    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    As stated to declare out and out war is to accept that Daesh becomes a state actor. (In the context of conventional war)

    The one thing that worries me is the international law side of things, as it was indeed made illegal accept in cases of self defence...

    I'll sleep on this
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by DanE1998)
    As stated to declare out and out war is to accept that Daesh becomes a state actor. (In the context of conventional war)

    The one thing that worries me is the international law side of things, as it was indeed made illegal accept in cases of self defence...

    I'll sleep on this
    I would argue there is a case for self-defence after they took hostages in a Cabinet meeting.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    I would argue there is a case for self-defence after they took hostages in a Cabinet meeting.
    So you aren't concerned that you and your government intend to be the first in the world to recognise IS as a legitimate state?
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    Please change my vote from Abstain to Nay. On further consideration, the recognition of Daesh is not acceptable.
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So you aren't concerned that you and your government intend to be the first in the world to recognise IS as a legitimate state?
    With the intent to wipe it out.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    With the intent to wipe it out.
    Which does not necessitate recognition as a state

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Which does not necessitate recognition as a state
    It's a means to an end, it's not like we're starting diplomatic relations or anything. It just further legitimises our action.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    It's a means to an end, it's not like we're starting diplomatic relations or anything. It just further legitimises our action.
    Arguably it doesn't, I've it's not just myself that have told you that declaration of war is illegal

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by The Financier)
    Please change my vote from Abstain to Nay. On further consideration, the recognition of Daesh is not acceptable.
    Understood.

    I have removed one Abstention and added one No.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    I would argue there is a case for self-defence after they took hostages in a Cabinet meeting.
    Okay so that satisfies the legalities of the 'war'

    I'll go with it

    Aye

    (watch out for the whole ratifying ISIS though)
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by DanE1998)
    Okay so that satisfies the legalities of the 'war'

    I'll go with it

    Aye

    (watch out for the whole ratifying ISIS though)
    We run into the whole matter of what is defined as a law, and even in retaliation war is not legal, hence why declarations of war don't happen, even as retaliatory action. Although on the whole it is a matter that is very complicated and even the world leading legal minds in the area don't exactly know what is and is not allowed, much like the threat and use of nuclear weapons where the ICJ ruled that current law makes it neither legal nor illegal to threaten or use nuclear weapons, but agreed that it might be legal to use, or threaten to use,them to prevent your own destruction. We either way still run into the issue of needing to recognise ISIS to instigate a state of (un)declared war unless of course we wage it against Syria.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    If anybody is interested in my armchair general and diplomat suggestion as to how this should be done if you really want to do this, whilst avoiding legitimising ISIS it would be as follows.

    First we approach the Iraqi government about providing boots on the ground assistance against ISIS, we then put boots on the ground in Iraq officially at the request of the Iraqi government. We then spend however long it takes pushing them back to the border, at this point we wait. We don't cross the border en masse, we put s moderate force near the border with occasional crossings to assess the reactions of Assad, Putin and the international community as a whole, and we just sit there for a while.

    Then depending on the state of the conflict we could push for the UNSC to pass a resolution to allow us to cross legally, with the assistance of other states, although perhaps not the best idea because Russia will just veto. Build up allies and try entering into a new dialogue with Damascus and probably not until the end of the decade enter into Syria to make a push for Raqqa. The conflict should be started in Iraq and then leak into Syria, just like thebair strikes.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    This is a motion from the Government on a Declaration of War? I seriously hope that this is a free vote, and I am beginning to think that this is a motion in response to the Vote of No Confidence because it is out of character.

    It's a strong nay from me, as well as a scoff of derision at the attempt to reference Crisis 2.
    How can you attempt to suggest an all-out invasion of a country already being torn apart by civil war?
    I really don't want to rant so I'll link Tony Benn's speech.
    Is that a rather scruffy Jez Corbyn in the background?
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    I am strongly against what has been proposed here. There is simply no need for Britain to get involved in another bloodbath. By using military force in this way, you are encouraging there to be more terrorist attacks in our own country. It is a firm nay from me on this issue.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Is that a rather scruffy Jez Corbyn in the background?
    It is yes
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Is that a rather scruffy Jez Corbyn in the background?
    It is.
    I wouldn't say he was scruffy though.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    It is.
    I wouldn't say he was scruffy though.
    Nor would I, one of his smarter outfits I'd go as far to say, I guess the image of scruffiness comes more from the beard imo
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Nor would I, one of his smarter outfits I'd go as far to say, I guess the image of scruffiness comes more from the beard imo
    Quite true, although alongside Tony Benn I wager most people'd look scruffy
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Quite true, although alongside Tony Benn I wager most people'd look scruffy
    Tony Benn put most of the house to shame with how he dressed aye. Also if you haven't I'd suggest watching Tony Benn - Labour's Lost Leader, a certain scruffy MP appears about 8 minutes from the end, it's only a small, and sad, segment, but makes me smile when I see it
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Tony Benn put most of the house to shame with how he dressed aye. Also if you haven't I'd suggest watching Tony Benn - Labour's Lost Leader, a certain scruffy MP appears about 8 minutes from the end, it's only a small, and sad, segment, but makes me smile when I see it
    Sounds very good, I must watch it!
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: February 28, 2016
Poll
Are you going to a festival?
Useful resources

Articles:

Debate and current affairs forum guidelines

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.