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Pro choice or pro life? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Pro choice or pro life?
    Pro choice
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    Pro life
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    24.85%

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    Pro-choice.

    Personally, I believe that abortion is fine, but it shouldn't happen purely because the foetus will be born with a survivable disability, as this just doesn't sit well with me. If there are other reasons to go through with the abortion then fine, but if the pregnancy was planned or wanted before the discovery of the disability then the family should really go through with it, as planned pregnancy generally involves being prepared to look after the planned child no matter what.

    I can see where pro-lifers are coming from with the whole murder argument, but I think that as long as the foetus is not considered medically 'brain-living' (as opposed to brain dead) then it's not murder. Lack of cognitive brain function is a requirement of death in terms of medicine, so therefore the foetus is not alive at this stage and it cannot be considered as murder.

    I'm not sure when cognitive functions begin, but even if that has already happened then I think it's up to the family and primarily the woman to make the choice. There are always exceptional circumstances and I believe the rights of a living mother precede the rights of an unborn foetus. Women should not be forced to go through pregnancies if they don't wish to, especially if that pregnancy will be harmful to themselves, both physically and emotionally.

    It's also important that women are not 'blamed' by pro-life organisations for abortions, as it is a difficult decision to make even when a staunch supporter of the pro-choice argument.
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    My point is just that, in today's world, the likelihood of people wanting to kill their newborn infant is incredibly low. Why would they have went through the whole pregnancy in order to just do that, for example?

    Ultimately, it's down to the parents in both cases - I was simply anticipating the objection of "why would anyone want to do that?".
    It's unpersuasive to say that it's not necessary for infants to have rights simply because parents are unlikely to want to kill them.


    The logical conclusion of your arguments is simple - no liability will follow if a mother kills an infant, whatever her motives are.

    I hold to a particularly demanding form of morality...
    Why? This is not about whether rights exist, this is about whether an act can ever be treated as occupying the same normative ground as an omission - and the onus lies on you to prove this.

    But, that's a separate question because in the real-life situations I mentioned, taking the baby off life support and actively killing it both have the same motives behind them, namely to prevent such a baby's miserable life continuing, and to give the parents some closure.
    With all due respect, I don't think some of your arguments merit a response. Throwing an assertion like "I don't believe in rights" doesn't win you an argument.


    We are clearly approaching the issue from very different premises, thus the continuation of this conversation is rather pointless.
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    Pro-choice. Forcing a woman to give birth to a child she doesn't want is an unpardonable interference in a woman's right to control her body.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    It doesn't matter if it's a fully grown baby or not, just because it doesn't look like a baby yet doesn't mean that it should be killed. A new life has already been formed during conception. Killing this life is just as sinful as the murder of an adult human.

    Yes I meant adoption. Your argument against adoption is invalid because the problem with adopted children having terrible lives can be solved if we had a better adoption system and better carers for those children, as well as providing incentives for people to adopt. This is what we should be trying to do- helping those children have as normal a life as possible- instead of killing them.
    Even if a fetus was alive, the "right to life" doesn’t imply a right to use somebody else’s body. People have the right to refuse to donate their organs, for example, even if doing so would save somebody else’s life. I think the mother is more important than the 'baby' and her needs and safety is more important. What if a mother could not afford a child and they had to live in poverty? what if she was raped and the baby reminds her of it everyday? what if she isn't emotionally stable to have a baby at that time? what if she's only a teen and it can ruin her own life and make it difficult? what if she simply doesn't want a baby? these are all valid reasons. Would you rather save the mothers life or an unborn child? Banning abortion violates a woman's right to control her own body.
    And the fact is though there isn't a good adoption system is there? If there was I wouldn't have said that. So many kids are in the adoption system have awful lives and its unfair to them to be thrown into adoption. Also abortion is not murder, murder is 'the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another'.
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    Pro choice. A woman should be able to decide what she does with her own body. Plus, if people are having children they never wanted in the first place, abuse and neglect are highly likely. Illegal, backstreet, coat hanger abortions would be inevitable if abortion was banned (look at what happened in Northern Ireland) - more women becoming ill because of them which results in more healthcare on the NHS needed for them. At the end of the day, it is a fertilised egg and the implications of people having children they never wanted can be horrendous.
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    Pro-choice.
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    I'm all for pro choice!
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    Pro choice just because people are going to find a way to terminate a pregnancy whether it is legal or not so it may as well be legal so women can do it safely and not risk their own lives.

    Some people think that women who want to abort are absolutely fine with abortion and would use it as a regular contraceptive sort of. However, almost every time it is a huge decision and has a huge emotional toll on them. If it is legal they will (I hope) not be using it regularly but instead in cases of accidents or failure of contraceptive.

    At the end of the day, if a woman is set and want to abort her baby, they will find a way and if it is legal then it just provides a safe way.
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    Funny how also most of the time (especially in USA), the same people who support gun ownership are the same ones who are pro life.
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    While legally i am pro choice, morally i am pro life.

    When a woman has an abortion, she is essentially saying that her right to control her body is more important than the foetuses right to life, which they helped create. I see it as no different to putting down a pet they dont want to look after.

    To use similar examples used before, if someone in a coma requires to be hookef up to you to survive for under a year, it is your right to disconnect yourself, but you would be a horrible person for doing so.

    Its unfortionate, but we are a society, and you should not just trample all over another living thing just because it inconveniences you.
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    Pro choice by every definition I've come across

    That being said I view certain alternates as better.

    Basically abortion should be safe, legal and as rare as possible.
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    (Original post by hxfsxh)
    I'm pro life unless its a major health risk to the mother. Even if the child is unwanted, they can be put up for adoption when born.
    We live in a country where our care system is barely functional, we have far more kids than we have the capacity to deal with effectively, kids spend 16 years bouncing around from house to house, never having a chance to settle, never having the chance to properly integrate with a family and the system takes babies and turns them into barely functional adults with damn near no chance of ever leading a successful life.


    Now I'll ask you the same question I ask anybody who says that they are completely against abortions.

    What happens if a woman gets raped and as a result falls pregnant. Should she be expected to carry her rapists child for 9 months?
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    (Original post by al_94)
    I'm pro life people need to take responsibility
    So what happens to the woman who falls pregnant after being raped?

    Should she have to carry her rapists baby for 9 months?
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    (Original post by djh2208)
    When it comes to abortion there is a conflict of rights. A child has a right to life, but a women also has the right to control her own body. I believe that a child's right to life is more important than a women's right to control her own body. The only exception is when the mothers life is in danger.

    I believe women have the right to control their own bodies. They can take drugs if they choose and can sell their bodies for sex if they choose, I just don't believe they can choose to end someone else's life.
    "The only exception is when the mothers life is in danger."

    So what if a woman falls pregnant after being raped? Should she be forced to carry her rapists child for 9 months?

    But I'd agree, a child does have the right to life, but what exists early on in pregnancy is not a child, it is a cluster of cells that will go on to form a child.

    An abortion before the point at which anything even vaguely resembling consciousness is present is no different to picking a scab or squeezing a spot.
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    (Original post by mackemforever)
    What happens if a woman gets raped and as a result falls pregnant. Should she be expected to carry her rapists child for 9 months?
    (Original post by mackemforever)
    So what happens to the woman who falls pregnant after being raped?
    (Original post by mackemforever)
    So what if a woman falls pregnant after being raped? Should she be forced to carry her rapists child for 9 months?
    Unfortionately, its not the childs fault their father is a rapist. So yes, she should carry the child.
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    (Original post by hxfsxh)
    I'm pro life unless its a major health risk to the mother. Even if the child is unwanted, they can be put up for adoption when born.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Unfortionately, its not the childs fault their father is a rapist. So yes, she should carry the child.
    So a woman who has already had a terrible act committed to her should have to suffer a constant reminder of what has been done to her. That to you seems more fair than removing a cluster of cells that is months away from being anything that could even vaguely be described as a human being?

    Essentially what you're saying is that the victim of a terrible crime should be punished for having been the victim.
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    Besides when it is performed for medical reasons, I think abortion is absolutely vile and it is shameful to me that our society now treats it with such a blasé attitude, as though it is no different to getting a wart removed.

    However, I still think it should be legal. The last thing we need is a return to barbaric, back alley abortions. I would rather see reproductive responsibilty heavily encouraged over any kind of ban on abortion.
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    Interesting view, for the leader of the TSR Greens. :holmes:
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Interesting view, for the leader of the TSR Greens. :holmes:
    How do you mean? I'm pro-life
 
 
 
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