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    before i get flamed for this, i'm just gonna put across 2 points of view in this topic add whatever you feel necessary

    view one:
    no jesus was nailed to a cross by the romans/jews and so was executed not committing suicide

    view two:
    yes jesus did commit suicide, he had the power to remove himself from the cross but did not thus taking his own life.


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    (Original post by _Alan)
    before i get flamed for this, i'm just gonna put across 2 points of view in this topic add whatever you feel necessary

    view one:
    no jesus was nailed to a cross by the romans/jews and so was executed not committing suicide

    view two:
    yes jesus did commit suicide, he had the power to remove himself from the cross but did not thus taking his own life.


    discuss
    I guess in a convoluted way, he commited 'suicide by cop' as he could have easily denied the accusations and avoided his own execution. Not sure what relevance that would have though.
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    If someone commits a murder in a country with the death penalty, gets caught and executed, would that also consitute suicide? If someone were to go to Venezuela on a holiday and then fall off a cliff, would that be suicide as that person could have chosen never to go to Venezuela and hence not die? Where is the boundary for your definition of suicide?
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    Suicide...wanting to die.
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    (Original post by jumpunderaboat)
    Suicide...wanting to die.
    You should stop taking those pills... What are you on about?
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    I thought Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross to save humanity. Hence, even if he had the power to remove himself from the cross he didn't. Doesn't mean he comitted suicide as he did not take any actions to kill himself.
    If your arguement is true then does that mean anyone joining the army or going into battle is comitting suicide? Or more like sacrificing themselves for their country?
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    (Original post by parvati)
    I thought Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross to save humanity. Hence, even if he had the power to remove himself from the cross he didn't. Doesn't mean he comitted suicide as he did not take any actions to kill himself.
    If your arguement is true then does that mean anyone joining the army or going into battle is comitting suicide? Or more like sacrificing themselves for their country?
    Yes, He sweat blood because he didn't want to go to the cross. If you were going to commit suicide then you would do it in a quick and painless fashion. Only a nutter would commit suicide with a cross.
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    to expand on a comment made earlier



    suicidal means you want to die

    suicide is the act of taking your own life, sacrificing yourself is in a way suicide


    and my arguement is neither i just wanted to see what other people would make of the views i posted.
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    the reason why jesus did not remove himself from the cross was because he was to die for our sins. - he was born to die, so that we may live, read the bible.
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    (Original post by _Alan)
    to expand on a comment made earlier
    suicidal means you want to die
    suicide is the act of taking your own life, sacrificing yourself is in a way suicide
    and my arguement is neither i just wanted to see what other people would make of the views i posted.
    Sacrificing is not taking actions to preserve you life in a deadly situation (or apparently dieing in service to something greater than yourself) because your death will fulfill some pupose, either long term or short term. I.g. A soldier dies in battle to preserve his country just that much longer.
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    (Original post by _Alan)
    before i get flamed for this, i'm just gonna put across 2 points of view in this topic add whatever you feel necessary

    view one:
    no jesus was nailed to a cross by the romans/jews and so was executed not committing suicide

    view two:
    yes jesus did commit suicide, he had the power to remove himself from the cross but did not thus taking his own life.


    discuss
    Excuse my ignorance, but how did Jesus have the power to remove himself? Do you mean ask by asking God for help or could he just have got down?
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    (Original post by sarah101)
    Excuse my ignorance, but how did Jesus have the power to remove himself? Do you mean ask by asking God for help or could he just have got down?
    Jesus is fully God while at the same time being fully human. He could have just got down.
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    Jesus was demi god... he died remember.

    the ressurection was a miracle on God's behalf
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    (Original post by moncal)
    Jesus is fully God while at the same time being fully human. He could have just got down.
    Does that make sense then?
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    God cannot be human, for God must be, by definition; perfect.

    Humans are contingent, therefore they have no intrinsic maximum on perfection, they can always be improved by adding something like a hair or a cell of skin etc.

    For God to be perfect, he must be transient, and therefore not human... basically what I said earlier... but obviously nobody read it lol.
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    according to the bible Jesus IS perfect

    and in response to you read the bible comment, i know the bible i used to study it with my local vicar at a youth group
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    Jesus cannot be God... for by definition of christianity, there is one god... you cannot deny the holly triad... god the son and the spirit, but the is one god, the son cannot be the god.

    jesus maybe perfect, but he cannot be more perfect then god, for this is illogical.

    are you telling me jesus is god?

    are you aware of the ontological argument...

    Gaunilo argues against Anselm who says that God must exist, because perfection implies existence, his perfect island says that If Gaunilo thinks of a perfect island, it must exist if perfection implies existence.

    Anslem's argument against this is to say that the difference between Gods perfection is God is transient, the island has no intrinsic maximum for perfection. Therefore Gods perfection must implie existence, whereas the perfect island cannot exist as it is contingent.

    The point is that Jesus was contingent, therefore he cannot be perfect, if the bible says jesus was perfect, it is illogical as he cannot be, as perfection can only exist in the transient realm.

    2 years of philosophy there, hope it made sense!
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    (Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
    are you telling me jesus is god?
    Did my earlier post not clearly state that? The trinity of God is an illistration to show the aspects of his majesty. He is the father because we are his children, he is the spirit because he dwells within us, he is the son because he came to this earth as a man with all of his power. The fact that jesus is God isn't that hard to comprehend when you consider that God is all knowing and all present.
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    (Original post by moncal)
    Did my earlier post not clearly state that? The trinity of God is an illistration to show the aspects of his majesty. He is the father because we are his children, he is the spirit because he dwells within us, he is the son because he came to this earth as a man with all of his power. The fact that jesus is God isn't that hard to comprehend when you consider that God is all knowing and all present.
    It must be obvious then, that Jesus was in no way human. Only at the superficial level.
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    (Original post by Do Chickens Fly)
    It must be obvious then, that Jesus was in no way human. Only at the superficial level.
    The only thing he lacked from being a human was a sin nature. He got hungry, he got tired, he felt pain, he felt greif, he was happy, he laughed, he ate, he drank, he was merry. He just resisted temptation in all forms.
 
 
 

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