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    (Original post by moncal)
    The only thing he lacked from being a human was a sin nature. He got hungry, he got tired, he felt pain, he felt greif, he was happy, he laughed, he ate, he drank, he was merry. He just resisted temptation in all forms.
    And since we cannot, we find it impossible to believe that anyone could. Although jesus let himself be crusified does not mean he committed suicide. He was praying, asking if another way existed.
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    (Original post by _Alan)
    before i get flamed for this, i'm just gonna put across 2 points of view in this topic add whatever you feel necessary

    view one:
    no jesus was nailed to a cross by the romans/jews and so was executed not committing suicide

    view two:
    yes jesus did commit suicide, he had the power to remove himself from the cross but did not thus taking his own life.


    discuss
    Did Jesus commit suicide... Yes, he said "God, I just cant take it any more, Im never going to make it as a rock star" and then he jumped from a bridge... the rest they say, is history...

    Jeez! I dunnow, I guess the only way of knowing is to go back and ask someone who was there. Go on, build a time machine...
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    (Original post by Everdawn)
    Did Jesus commit suicide... Yes, he said "God, I just cant take it any more, Im never going to make it as a rock star" and then he jumped from a bridge... the rest they say, is history...

    Jeez! I dunnow, I guess the only way of knowing is to go back and ask someone who was there. Go on, build a time machine...
    Is this an example of Aussie humour?
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Is this an example of Aussie humour?
    nah mate its just me being stupid.
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    moncal... so when jesus was on the cross he did not say 'father forgive give them as they do not know what they do'... so he was talking to himself was he?

    Jesus was not god... if he was god could they kill him?

    Jesus was not perfect... if he was perfect then he would be more perfect or as perfect as god, which is quite clearly illogical, since he was human, and thus contingent!

    re-read my other post.
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    (Original post by Everdawn)
    Jeez! I dunnow, I guess the only way of knowing is to go back and ask someone who was there. Go on, build a time machine...
    Eye witnesses of the event wrote it all down. Its called the bible.

    Christ as man/God? The idea of Christ as both human and God is a fundamental tenant of christian belief. The bible states it repeatedly and Christ himself made many a claim to divinity. Almost everything he done or said pointed to it. Thats why they got him nailed up.

    Furthermore - can we move past this 6 year old sunday school understanding of 'Son of God'. This is not only a claim to general sonship as we know it to be, but was seen as a claim to equality with the devine. To claim to be the Son was to claim to be as good as God.

    And finaly - on the topic - Jesus knew he would be resurected to eternal life. Could his death be thought of a suicide in this light? Suicide had a whole different meaning for Jews at this time. Just ask Judas Iscariot. The Law of moses states that without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sins - hence the system of temple worship. Some Jeswish theologians of the time believed that this meant that suicide could pay for sins that you had commited in much the same way as a lamb. I still think that Jesus was perfect though and as such didnt neet to atone for himself.

    Phew. Fundamentalist stream of thought over. Please return to your programmed thread.
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    Jesus is God... whether the bible says it or not, it is fundamentally impossible.
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    (Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
    Jesus is God... whether the bible says it or not, it is fundamentally impossible.
    Is this because you cant fit a proper understanding of the infinite into your clearly finite (like mine - no offence) cranium? The trinity is un-understandable by human muinds, while still managing to make sense at some level - think of it as neopolitain Ice Cream. You have three seperate flavours, but they all come in the same tub. The tub would still be called neopolitain if it only had the strawberry bit, or if it only lacked the chocolate (is your family like mine - choco hording ice cream assasins?). Its kind of the same with the trinity.

    Its miraculous - and mirracles by their very definition happen outside the laws of physics,the measurment of science and the realm of human understanding.

    We will obviously not convince each other though.
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    whilst my mind is not infinite, niether quite frankly is yours.

    this is why people philosophise, short of revelation we will never know the truth. but i understand what you are saying, the holly spirit is god around us, the father created the earth, jesus was god on earth etc.

    so explain to me why jesus was talking to 'the father' on the cross, surely if they are different parts of the same being jesus cannot be talking to the father, this would raise the question of seperate conscienceness (sp?) - which if your argument is correct and they are all the same 'God' surely one cannot be asking the other to forgive?

    I just want to understand how u justify this.
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    equaly one and equaly seperate.

    Jesus spoke to God the father and followed his directions as an example to his followers, but was also God the Son. Collosians states that 'The fullness of the deity was pleased to dwell within Him'.

    We cant get it. Its what them thar theologans call a mystery (cue spooky music).
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    (Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
    Jesus is God... whether the bible says it or not, it is fundamentally impossible.
    Why is it impossible for you to think of god, who is omnipotent, to make his son, one of the three parts of the godhead, human. It seems to me that you are missing out on the fact that there are 3 parts to god, the father, to son and the holy spirit.
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    (Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
    whilst my mind is not infinite, niether quite frankly is yours.

    this is why people philosophise, short of revelation we will never know the truth. but i understand what you are saying, the holly spirit is god around us, the father created the earth, jesus was god on earth etc.

    so explain to me why jesus was talking to 'the father' on the cross, surely if they are different parts of the same being jesus cannot be talking to the father, this would raise the question of seperate conscienceness (sp?) - which if your argument is correct and they are all the same 'God' surely one cannot be asking the other to forgive?

    I just want to understand how u justify this.
    The three parts of the godhead are both one and seperate.
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    yes i understand this; uncledougsie cheers for lettin me know... as with all things a deal of blnd faith is necessary, but it does seem a bit of cop-out to say simply we dont understand... because we aren't smart enough, i suppose it will always be a niggle for me.

    wiwarin... i said in a previous post that i understand the three part god thing, if you read the post i was asking for an explaination, out of interest how a believer can justify such a lack in consistency.
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    (Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
    wiwarin... i said in a previous post that i understand the three part god thing, if you read the post i was asking for an explaination, out of interest how a believer can justify such a lack in consistency.
    One thing a believer knows is that god is infinitely more inteligent than them, so they could never even comprihend god, they must just have faith in god's action.
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    lol... don't get me started on this... the classic attributes of the theistic god: omnipotency, omnisciency, omnibenevolence.

    the fact that evil exists suggests that God lacks at least one of these qualities.
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    (Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
    lol... don't get me started on this... the classic attributes of the theistic god: omnipotency, omnisciency, omnibenevolence.

    the fact that evil exists suggests that God lacks at least one of these qualities.
    or that god planned it from the start, knowing exactly what would happen. This is the thing most people cannot comprihend, why did god make evil.
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    sorry for being cynical... but if god is all loving would he want even one of his creations to suffer as a result of evil... no. therefore how could a theistic god comprehend making evil as part of a plan?
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    (Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
    sorry for being cynical... but if god is all loving would he want even one of his creations to suffer as a result of evil... no. therefore how could a theistic god comprehend making evil as part of a plan?
    but how do we know how a god thinks? We are looking at this entire thing from a human point of view. In the bible it says that even angels cannot comprihend the ways of god.
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    (Original post by Uncledougsie)
    Eye witnesses of the event wrote it all down. Its called the bible.
    .
    EDITED TEXT! EDITED TEXT!
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    its a cop-out... we dont understand god... therefore we cannot comprehend why he justifies the existence of evil... the bible offers no logical explaination, niether has any philosopher, including the theodicies in my opinion... all we are given is an excuse, also not logical, lets just put it down to him being smarter then us, ignoring the fact that the reason why evil exists, is more realsitically down to God not existing, then for an all powerful being who has a plan for all of us.

    we arent goin to convince each other eitherway.
 
 
 
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