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Osborne's austerity hasn't worked, so he proposes more austerity. watch

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    I'm anti austerity. I have seen the impact austerity has on those affected by it. I have seen the impact on services struggling to cope with the budget that they've been given.

    Austerity also doesn't make sense from a pragmatic perspective. If the government spends less, then they have less income from tax. The poor have less money due to cuts to benefits so they spend less so the government has less income from VAT. The poor spending less also means that businesses struggle because they are getting less money. The businesses then pay less tax and may ultimately go out of business because they're making a loss, thus putting people out of work.

    The increased unemployment also means that the government has to pay more money in benefits and so increases the defecit. This means that the government ends up making more cuts and the downward spiral continues and everyone ends up worse off than if they'd just left it be.

    From a selfish standpoint, I don't want austerity. It will mean that it's harder for me to get a job in my chosen career, and if I do, I will have worse pay and conditions.

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    (Original post by Arsenal96)
    Greece had austerity imposed because they were spending way more than they could produce. The percentage of GDP they were spending was childish. Austerity was the only way forward for them
    yes, they were spending more than they should have but clearly the solution wasn't extreme austerity. their economy got way worse after the austerity measures. you cannot deny this.
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    In my opinion austerity has been the safe option which was guaranteed to increase the economy steadily, while anti-austerity in theory looks really nice but has the chance to put is us a horrible position. You could argue that anti-austerity was the better choice but I don't think we are in a grim enough position to warrant a gamble like that. Stuff like the New Deal will always go down in history as excellent economics but the situation in that time was very different from the one we face. But what do I know? I'm not even in the work force yet.

    At the end of the day, the British economy is on track to keep improving to the point where we can fully fund the things that we want without risking another crash in the economy. I'm not saying that I agree with Osborn or that I'm a tory, I just think it's important to take an objective view on the economic options and not just look at all the positives from one and all the negatives from the other solely because I identify with one political party.
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    We hit the iceberg in 2008, the economy will sink, the Tories are just delaying it with the pumps (QE / "austerity", maybe "helicopter money" in the future as part of a cashless economy).

    The recommended life boat is gold while it's still low price.
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    I'm anti austerity. I have seen the impact austerity has on those affected by it. I have seen the impact on services struggling to cope with the budget that they've been given.

    Austerity also doesn't make sense from a pragmatic perspective. If the government spends less, then they have less income from tax. The poor have less money due to cuts to benefits so they spend less so the government has less income from VAT. The poor spending less also means that businesses struggle because they are getting less money. The businesses then pay less tax and may ultimately go out of business because they're making a loss, thus putting people out of work.

    The increased unemployment also means that the government has to pay more money in benefits and so increases the defecit. This means that the government ends up making more cuts and the downward spiral continues and everyone ends up worse off than if they'd just left it be.

    From a selfish standpoint, I don't want austerity. It will mean that it's harder for me to get a job in my chosen career, and if I do, I will have worse pay and conditions.

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    i don't think it's a selfish standpoint

    austerity = working class people suffer a lot
    anti-austerity = rich people don't make quite as much money

    one has people suffering, one does not. very simple.

    i'd think the same if i was a billionaire too
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    (Original post by Louisb19)
    In my opinion austerity has been the safe option which was guaranteed to increase the economy steadily, while anti-austerity in theory looks really nice but has the chance to put is us a horrible position. You could argue that anti-austerity was the better choice but I don't think we are in a grim enough position to warrant a gamble like that. Stuff like the New Deal will always go down in history as excellent economics but the situation in that time was very different from the one we face. But what do I know? I'm not even in the work force yet.

    At the end of the day, the British economy is on track to keep improving to the point where we can fully fund the things that we want without risking another crash in the economy. I'm not saying that I agree with Osborn or that I'm a tory, I just think it's important to take an objective view on the economic options and not just look at all the positives from one and all the negatives from the other solely because I identify with one political party.
    the economy is not back on track. YOU may be doing better, but that doesn't mean the majority of people are
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    Austerity is a political choice disguised as economic necessity to roll back the state.
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    i would just like to point out that despite the fact that I believe in deficit reduction, does not mean that I agree with every cut that Osborne has made. I would place more emphasis on tax rises, and also believe that the government should build more homes.
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    (Original post by mangala)
    the economy is not back on track. YOU may be doing better, but that doesn't mean the majority of people are
    I'm from a six person middle class family who takes in sub 45k per year. 6 years ago both my parents got let go due to the economy crash and now they are both back to doing jobs that they enjoy. So I'd say the economy has improved quite a bit.

    You can't refuse to work hard and then expect the people who do work hard and who made sacrifices to pay for all of the things that you need. That's not how the world should work.
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    (Original post by Arsenal96)
    Austerity has worked. We are the fastest growing economy in Europe and the developed world. Countries who opposed austerity like France, Spain and Greece had the worst growth...in fact negative growth

    We are expected to overtake Germany as the 4th largest economy in the near future
    Greece are the poster boy for austerity lol

    (Original post by Louisb19)
    I'm from a six person middle class family who takes in sub 45k per year. 6 years ago both my parents got let go due to the economy crash and now they are both back to doing jobs that they enjoy. So I'd say the economy has improved quite a bit.You can't refuse to work hard and then expect the people who do work hard and who made sacrifices to pay for all of the things that you need. That's not how the world should work.
    Natural economic justice :puke:
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    Only gullible people with no understanding of economics actually believe that austerity is an effective economic strategy. The economy is NOT a larger version of a household budget. It was John Maynard Keynes who demolished the concept of austerity back in the 1930s with his theory of Keynesian economics which was proven to be quite successful at combatting recession and putting the economy back on track. Our Conservative cabinet minister are opposed to Keynesian economics and the EU Commission will not allow EU member states to implement it because of (unfair) competition regulations.
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    (Original post by Arran90)
    Only gullible people with no understanding of economics actually believe that austerity is an effective economic strategy. The economy is NOT a larger version of a household budget. It was John Maynard Keynes who demolished the concept of austerity back in the 1930s with his theory of Keynesian economics which was proven to be quite successful at combatting recession and putting the economy back on track. Our Conservative cabinet minister are opposed to Keynesian economics and the EU Commission will not allow EU member states to implement it because of (unfair) competition regulations.
    You have to balance the budget at some point though and the UK is out of recession and has seen growth for some time. If you don't cut now when are you going to cut?
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    (Original post by LordMallard)
    You have to balance the budget at some point though and the UK is out of recession and has seen growth for some time. If you don't cut now when are you going to cut?
    Bear in mind that Britain has had a continuous national debt since the 16th century so austerity measures to balance the budget comes at the behest of bankers more so than anything else. The "We won't lend to you in the future if you don't impose cuts now" type of request. The danger of GDP as a yardstick is whether the increase in economic growth trickles down to common folk or not. The richest 1% can get richer whilst the poorest 99% can get poorer yet GDP can still rise. A jobless economic recovery or an economic recovery with stagnant salaries and no evident increase in living standards is technically possible by taking GDP as the sole yardstick.
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    We have not experienced true Austerity in this country as of yet and Osbornes policy have not gone far enough. We can't keep spending above our means so yes we have to cut, get over it, it has to happen, fact!
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    (Original post by kieran12321LFC)
    In real terms it's completely unfeasible to just kill all the rich people.Then we'd end up like a sub-Saharan African country
    correct there would be no line of credit into the uk
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    (Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
    We have not experienced true Austerity in this country as of yet and Osbornes policy have not gone far enough. We can't keep spending above our means so yes we have to cut, get over it, it has to happen, fact!
    what cuts you fancy we should do next?

    1. abolish personal independence payments and scrap employment support allowance?
    2. abolish housing benefit and make the unemployed and low paid live in cramped conditions (10 people to a 2 bedroom house).
    3. abolish the universal credit and tax credit system and replace it with nothing.
    4. allow pensioners and the disabled to be sanctioned.
    5. increase taxes on the working classes?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    No its not its because of central bank manipulation leading to a inflated stock market that is on life support. Since April 2015 we have been in recession.

    What has really pushed the whole western economy over the head isn't China but a more complex problem.

    Thing is the base currency of the USD is dwindling and this is preventing the Federal Reserve in the ability to print more money though quantitative easing. The same thing is causing diminishing returns on any QE that the Bank of Japan do and the European Central Bank.

    All this cheap money has been used over the last 15 years to buy cheap Chinese rubbish. However I am afraid the currency war is going to come to a end soon and you won't see it coming until its too late.

    Basically we are 1 min until doomsday for the central bankers. The only option they have left now is QE infinity which causes hyper inflation and world wide civil unrest due to austerity measures.

    So what is going to happen is this. In 18 days time George Osborne is going to announce some really devastating austerity cuts. They are going to be nasty and they are going to hit the poor the hardest.

    And as for students on TSR? Well lol your never be able to pay your debts back because when the economy crashes there will be no one to save it so expect a good 10-20 years of unemployment in the UK.

    There is a reason I am a part time student without £50,000 of debt to pay back.

    But ...... It doesn't matter how wealthy or how debt free we are ...... we are all screwed!
    You may find that the USA is doing less QE for two reasons 1 the economy is growing more strongly than previous years there hence the rate rise and 2 because the USA's debts have a cap on them this cap was raised a year or two ago a bit and it's difficult for Obama to raise it again as he has little power in the other house, it caused havoc last time.

    Cutting cheap money has effects on the markets as we can see as does the slow down in China and the continued stagnation in Europe.

    We're not heading for an apocalyptic crash just a period of crap growth and re adjustment that will go on for many years.


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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    what cuts you fancy we should do next?

    1. abolish personal independence payments and scrap employment support allowance?
    2. abolish housing benefit and make the unemployed and low paid live in cramped conditions (10 people to a 2 bedroom house).
    3. abolish the universal credit and tax credit system and replace it with nothing.
    4. allow pensioners and the disabled to be sanctioned.
    5. increase taxes on the working classes?
    1. Membership of the EU?
    2. Overseas aid?
    3. Tax breaks and loopholes for wealthy multinationals like Google and Starbucks?
    4. Propping up the Zionist project in the Middle East?
    5. The war on terror?

    Also introduce a land value tax and a Tobin tax. Change our system of taxation away from taxing productive activities towards taxing speculative activities.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    You may find that the USA is doing less QE for two reasons 1 the economy is growing more strongly than previous years there hence the rate rise and 2 because the USA's debts have a cap on them this cap was raised a year or two ago a bit and it's difficult for Obama to raise it again as he has little power in the other house, it caused havoc last time.

    Cutting cheap money has effects on the markets as we can see as does the slow down in China and the continued stagnation in Europe.

    We're not heading for an apocalyptic crash just a period of crap growth and re adjustment that will go on for many years.


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    Okay then Paul. Go and put all your savings into the Dow Jones Index. I'll put all mine into Gold. We'll see who comes on top k?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Okay then Paul. Go and put all your savings into the Dow Jones Index. I'll put all mine into Gold. We'll see who comes on top k?
    No thanks stocks and assets are over valued due to cheap money.

    K


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