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An interesting difference between Chinese and western leaders watch

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    (Original post by Mutsuhito)
    I’m a Martian looking to establish close ties with the ruling clan of your planet. I shall deceive them into thinking that I’ve come in friendship, and reveal my true intentions only once I know the security weaknesses of your planet. In this endeavour I first visited China, as sources had led me to believe the country carried some degree of importance to my quest, I believe such a fallacious conclusion came about through reference to its colossal population size. However I realised within a short space of time that population is all China has. And despite it being home to one fifth of the world’s population, its GDP is a mere one tenth. Then I soon concluded that it’s an insignificant place and that there was little I could learn whilst being there.

    Well,China'GDP is increasing at a speed of 4 percent a year.so do you know some math,then could you tell me the how is China in about 20 to 40 years??
    Oh ,i forget that your math is .........
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    (Original post by 旗人天相)
    Well,China'GDP is increasing at a speed of 4 percent a year.so do you know some math,then could you tell me the how is China in about 20 to 40 years??
    Oh ,i forget that your math is .........
    Is a strong economy more important than living in a free country where the people make the decisions through a democratically elected government and everyone has many civil and political rights?
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    (Original post by Shane_Filan)
    Is a strong economy more important than living in a free country where the people make the decisions through a democratically elected government and everyone has many civil and political rights?
    I didn't mean that.
    But you know ,the economy is the base of a nation's political regime.Or we can say political situation depends on the type/situation of the economy.
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    (Original post by 旗人天相)
    That's the situation about decades ago ,you see China' political policy and it regime revolution have improved a lot these years,you shouldn't always talk about others mistakes which is a long time ago.
    Others' mistakes? The people now at the top of the party and running the country were in positions of power then. They may not have decided the "mistaken" and murderous policies, but they carried them out enthusiastically. That's how they got promotion in the party. Their one rule is that they will retain power, regardless of what happens, so if they make a few more mistakes they will be just as ruthless in avoiding the consequences- see the recent mass infection with AIDS because of the obligatory policy of blood donation in parts of China. The communist party is ruthless and corrupt- not a good guarantee of long-term stability or a pleasant life for the people they rule.
    What did other nations "rob" from the Chinese? Comparing what Chinese people have done to other Chinese people- i leave aside what they've done to non-Chinese people incorporated into their empire- with what foreigners have done, who comes off worse? How many Chinese people were killed by the CCP, compared with the Japanese invasion? Or is it all right, a mere matter of statistics, when Chinese people murder millions of Chinese people?
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    Others' mistakes? The people now at the top of the party and running the country were in positions of power then. They may not have decided the "mistaken" and murderous policies, but they carried them out enthusiastically. That's how they got promotion in the party. Their one rule is that they will retain power, regardless of what happens, so if they make a few more mistakes they will be just as ruthless in avoiding the consequences- see the recent mass infection with AIDS because of the obligatory policy of blood donation in parts of China. The communist party is ruthless and corrupt- not a good guarantee of long-term stability or a pleasant life for the people they rule.
    What did other nations "rob" from the Chinese? Comparing what Chinese people have done to other Chinese people- i leave aside what they've done to non-Chinese people incorporated into their empire- with what foreigners have done, who comes off worse? How many Chinese people were killed by the CCP, compared with the Japanese invasion? Or is it all right, a mere matter of statistics, when Chinese people murder millions of Chinese people?

    Well,from all the ideas and statesments you have made,i can tell that you are just like other foreigners who misunderstand the reality of China all the time.Maybe that is because western countries' media pour lots of the negative aspects of China and some of them must have been exaggerated.Yes,the Chinese government have killed some Chinese people but you can't compare this to the japanese slaughter!(They killed 30000000!people!)They are the war criminals!!!
    The reason of the killing of Chinese people by Chinese government is very complex.But i can gurrantee one thing:It is not so evil and so simple as you think.
    I have lived in China for 21 years.I'm living a happy life all the time .I love this great country,so do other Chinese people.It is not the hell you have descrabed.
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    (Original post by 旗人天相)
    Well,from all the ideas and statesments you have made,i can tell that you are just like other foreigners who misunderstand the reality of China all the time.Maybe that is because western countries' media pour lots of the negative aspects of China and some of them must have been exaggerated.Yes,the Chinese government have killed some Chinese people but you can't compare this to the japanese slaughter!(They killed 30000000!people!)They are the war criminals!!!
    The reason of the killing of Chinese people by Chinese government is very complex.But i can gurrantee one thing:It is not so evil and so simple as you think.
    I have lived in China for 21 years.I'm living a happy life all the time .I love this great country,so do other Chinese people.It is not the hell you have descrabed.

    you have to realise that growth is not always sustaniable, in the mid 90's china's grew and such a fast rate is crashed. China has learned about its mistake and its slowing down its economy to have sustaniable growth, your figures will shrink soon.

    i do agree, in about 20 years, china will match the power of the U.S. but you must understand without foriegn investment, china couldnt have reached as far as it has. China's currency is also attached to the american currency, thus, it is "piggy backing" off america.

    Also, if the U.S. economy dosnt recouver as well as expected, asia's economy will suffer.
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    (Original post by BloodyValentine)
    haha do you still throw spears at each other?

    ummm and well not all western leaders are legally elected *george bush cough*
    Bush was legally elected. George W Bush got 271 Electoral College votes and Al Gore got 266 Electoral College votes. We don't have a popular vote system.
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    (Original post by canuck)
    you have to realise that growth is not always sustaniable, in the mid 90's china's grew and such a fast rate is crashed. China has learned about its mistake and its slowing down its economy to have sustaniable growth, your figures will shrink soon.

    i do agree, in about 20 years, china will match the power of the U.S. but you must understand without foriegn investment, china couldnt have reached as far as it has. China's currency is also attached to the american currency, thus, it is "piggy backing" off america.

    Also, if the U.S. economy dosnt recouver as well as expected, asia's economy will suffer.
    yes but you're promoting a policy of continous growth and expansion when there are a very limited amount of resources furthermore i don't think the chinese government has any idea how much of a change global warming could cause to its economy
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    (Original post by 旗人天相)
    the Chinese government have killed some Chinese people but you can't compare this to the japanese slaughter!(They killed 30000000!people!)They are the war criminals!!!
    Certainly, the Japanese government in the 1930s and 1940s were war criminals. A few- not enough- were punished. Where did you get the figure of thirty million casualties (presumably in China alone)? Most estimates for Chinese casualties are about ten million, and this includes casualties in the civil war which continued throughout the war.
    The reason of the killing of Chinese people by Chinese government is very complex.But i can gurrantee one thing:It is not so evil and so simple as you think.
    The Black Book of Communism estimates 65 million deaths as a result of the policies of the CCP. For the Great Leap Forward alone, Cong Jin estimated 40 million peasants died of starvation because of the CCP's policies. Chen Yizi estimates 43 million. Complex? Certainly. The CCP members were faced with losing power, fighting Mao and his clique and their asinine and murderous policies or acquiescing in them. The men who lead China now carried out those policies. Not simple, I agree- some of them may have had twinges of conscience- but what adjective would you prefer to "evil"? Add to this the deaths in "re-education", the anti-landlord campaign or after show-trials in the 1950s, the deaths of the Cultural Revolution, the deaths in "minority areas" while CCP rule was imposed and the Black Book's total looks like an underestimate. What is your "guarantee" worth now?
    I have lived in China for 21 years.I'm living a happy life all the time .I love this great country,so do other Chinese people.It is not the hell you have descrabed.
    There is a difference between loving your country and loving a murderous and dictatorial government. I did not describe China as a "hell". i pointed out that the government is not answerable to the people of China and- throughout its history- has always put its own survival and power and the survival and power of its members above the interests of anyone else, including the peoples they rule. The men who run China now got to the top by toadying, obeying orders and killing. Their subordinates haven't done much killing lately, but many of them have probably learned their lessons well. At the moment China is- or so we and you are told- stable, increasingly prosperous, free of major epidemics etc. Even if this is true, the CCP would undoubtedly be just as ruthless and murderous if its power was threatened by its own blunders and crimes. I hope you do not have the unpleasant chopice of betraying your countrymen or your government, but i hope you will realise that you have a government which may force that choice on you.
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    (Original post by 旗人天相)
    Well,China'GDP is increasing at a speed of 4 percent a year.so do you know some math,then could you tell me the how is China in about 20 to 40 years??
    Oh ,i forget that your math is .........
    Even if we do not take into account China’s colossal population size, even then its GDP is lower than that of the U.S. Its total is even lower than a certain minute European Island, which has a population size of a mere 60 million. Strangely enough the GDP growth of China was far greater than what you specified, it was actually 8%, with the U.S running at a mere 3%. Even if these trends continue, try and work out how long it’s going to take, do bear in mind that China’s GDP per head is far lower down the league tables, as opposed to its total, which has a relatively higher position due to population size. Also, you may know of something called the 'law of diminishing returns', it’s naïve to make comparisons in growth rate between economies at different stages of development. China’s growth rate will gradually become lower as it becomes more developed, that’s a pretty obvious prediction.

    In short, as they’re doing today, even in 2010, the Chinese will be sitting around on their backsides in their mysterious shrines, sipping on their Green Tea whilst discussing the erosion of Confucianism in modern day society. There’s not going to be a vicious assault of power acquisition coming up anytime soon. Well, that’s excluding the case of Taiwan, perhaps even Hong Kong, and not forgetting the Kung Fu movies, of course.
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    (Original post by Shane_Filan)
    Is a strong economy more important than living in a free country where the people make the decisions through a democratically elected government and everyone has many civil and political rights?
    I know this sounds very controversial, but it was just a thought that struck me:
    Democracy is an illusion. Why do everyone bolster with domocracy this, democracy that. What is so great about democracy that one can use it as an excuse to do all but anything? Instead of the oppression of arms we have the oppresion of words, instead of the warlords we have demagogs, and instead of fighting with guns/swords we have fights with threats, lies, espionage and corruption. So who are we to judge other regimes for their "ruthless" rule?

    Don't feed me with ******** like "democracy may not be good, but it is the best we have"...
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    China has the world's biggest market which contributes to its ecnomy policy as well as the huge population.When most of the western country's markets are neally saturated China is being the focus of world's business.Amount of foreign capitals are running into this great potantial market.at the same time china benefits a lot from it .It helps china to prosper its business and transform the old ecnomic as well as political system.what's more ,china's average unemployment has been rescued profoundly since the coming of foreign companies produce more working oppotunities to the society while the same situation seems to be sad in the US and other western countries for their managers are more willing to hire chinese wokers and put more resoures into the chinese market.
    Seconly,do you mind my correcting a logical mistake that Mr.canuck had just made.
    i do agree, in about 20 years, china will match the power of the U.S. but you must understand without foriegn investment, china couldnt have reached as far as it has
    ...Can i say that without china the foreign investment are not gaining any benefit too??
    China's currency is also attached to the american currency, thus, it is "piggy backing" off america.
    ...Can i say that the sentance"China's currency is also attached to the american currency" refers that the america is also attached to china??"
    I think these two logical equation can't be more simple.
    So in conclusion ,think twice before writes...
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    media censorship,human rights abuse records,one-party dictatorship,
    peple cannot enjoy the freedom of religion,the freedom of mass rally,
    many websites like AI,BBC were blocked in China which was ridiculous in some way...
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    (Original post by alibaba)
    media censorship,human rights abuse records,one-party dictatorship,
    peple cannot enjoy the freedom of religion,the freedom of mass rally,
    many websites like AI,BBC were blocked in China which was ridiculous in some way...
    i said that china is trying its best now to improve all these negative aspects but it needs time ,we should be patient,we shouldn't go to extreme ourselves.
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    I would also like to know how chineese education system matches up to the U.S., Europe, and japan?

    China is a new economic experiment, who knows what could happen, but she certainly learned from her mistake in 1997.
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    (Original post by canuck)
    China is a new economic experiment, who knows what could happen, but she certainly learned from her mistake in 1997.
    what do you mean exactly??
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    (Original post by 旗人天相)
    The reason of the killing of Chinese people by Chinese government is very complex.But i can gurrantee one thing:It is not so evil and so simple as you think.
    .
    Ah! that's a relief.
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    (Original post by Willywonko)
    I know this sounds very controversial, but it was just a thought that struck me:
    Democracy is an illusion. Why do everyone bolster with domocracy this, democracy that. What is so great about democracy that one can use it as an excuse to do all but anything?
    All but what anything?
    Instead of the oppression of arms we have the oppresion of words, instead of the warlords we have demagogs, and instead of fighting with guns/swords we have fights with threats, lies, espionage and corruption. So who are we to judge other regimes for their "ruthless" rule?
    The death rate among the ruled, even if we accept your arguments, is much lower in a democracy. Actually, as Karl Popper pointed out in The Open society and its Enemies, democracy has a great many positive attributes too.

    Don't feed me with ******** like "democracy may not be good, but it is the best we have"...
    What better do you have? What **** would you prefer to be fed- your own perhaps?
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    (Original post by alibaba)
    media censorship,human rights abuse records,one-party dictatorship,
    peple cannot enjoy the freedom of religion,the freedom of mass rally,
    many websites like AI,BBC were blocked in China which was ridiculous in some way...
    Secrecy, lies, corruption and abrogation of responsibility. The attempt to suppress the news of the SARS epidemics were fairly minor examples of Chinese government lies and dishonesty. Two much more serious examples- mistakes which were not a long time ago:
    The Banqiao River dam. This collapsed in 1975, triggering a whole series of other collapses downstream. It is estimated that about quarter of a million people died by drowning, disease or famine- not a lot by Chinese standards, perhaps, but no doubt they noticed. The economic cost was huge but- again- not calculated. The news was suppressed for nearly twenty years. China is now building the Three Gorges Dam project. No-one knows whether the men who ordered this learned anything- except that you can kill a lot of people and get away with it- from Banqiao.
    In some of the poorer rural areas- which have not benefitted from the Chinese "economic miracle" and have sometimes even suffered from it- there was a party-encouraged, sometimes party-enforced, policy of commercial blood donation. Hygiene standards were not high and the inevitable happened. In Henan province alone it is estimated that over a million people have AIDS. Again, the news was suppressed, but local party officials had less power- and perhaps the party foresaw and feared some of the consequences- and it came out more quickly. However, apart from those dying there, it is possible that elsewhere the party officials managed to keep the news silent and the epidemic goes on spreading without anyone knowing.
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    since china has a very large population, i'm sure they're entitled to some form of population control... :P

    now let's talk about all the bad things that other countries have done in the past. for instance, the british getting chinese people onto opium... that's cruel. the amount of people killed "in the name of the empire".

    the americans in iraq and afghanistan :P fairly recent.

    democracy in britain? you still have the queen xD

    the amount of loans from western governments to africa causing all that suffering and death too... that's certainly cruel.

    don't mind me i'm still half asleep writing this...
 
 
 
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