Turn on thread page Beta

Who is the bigger threat to the world, ISIS or the USA? watch

  • View Poll Results: Who is the bigger threat to the world, ISIS or the USA?
    ISIS
    46
    47.42%
    USA
    51
    52.58%

    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 713Wave)
    Wow what an amazing comeback, very impressive, an Outstanding way to keep an educated debate alive...... not.

    'Your desperation to remove any and all blame from Muslims' - when did I say this? oh wait I didn't! Next time don't make things up.
    and just to clear any doubt up, there are problems within Muslim societies across the world. I already know that! there are also problems in African societies, Indian societies, Chinese societies, Western Societies, Christian societies, Jewish Societies etc. Lets not pretend its just Islamic societies, we should identify, face and tackle all problems head on!


    .
    yes but the point you are missing is chinese are not causing problems in jewish society, indians not causing problems in western society, africans not causing problems in chinese society etc. the biggest problem with islamic issues is that it causes problem outside the islamic world ie the rest of the world - and hence why other powers are often forced to act.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    USA as they created ISIS via Israel.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Reformed)
    yes but the point you are missing is chinese are not causing problems in jewish society, indians not causing problems in western society, africans not causing problems in chinese society etc. the biggest problem with islamic issues is that it causes problem outside the islamic world ie the rest of the world - and hence why other powers are often forced to act.
    I never said Chinese people are causing problems in Jewish society etc. I said there are problems in all societies across the globe.

    Now on the case of terrorism - why does it happen? the answer is simple: Every action will have a reaction.

    Lets use Iraq as an example: when that country was invaded and the rulers were removed, it left a vacuum. Part of that vacuum was filled by an Iranian puppet government and the other half (which suffered discrimination because of the new government) was unfortunately and inevitably filled by terrorists. (Im not making excuses for them, im simply stating the causal link).

    long story short, war should only ever be used as the last resort. And You also need to have proper transitional and withdrawal plan. If you don't then you will have created a medium for terrorism to grow - that's what I'm trying to get at.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    I cant believe people think that a Western, liberal country is more of a threat than an Islamist death cult who beheads enemies, rapes women and stones gays on a regular basis without hesitance or mercy.

    You all need to take a long hard look at yourselves in the mirror. :mad:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by crypticlocker)
    I cant believe people think that a Western, liberal country is more of a threat than an Islamist death cult who beheads enemies, rapes women and stones gays on a regular basis without hesitance or mercy.

    You all need to take a long hard look at yourselves in the mirror. :mad:
    ISIS has limited influence, they are a tiny organisation. The USA contributes 15% of the world's CO2 emissions, and global warming has the capability of destroying all humanity, ISIS couldn't destroy a country if they tried.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    ISIS has limited influence, they are a tiny organisation. The USA contributes 15% of the world's CO2 emissions, and global warming has the capability of destroying all humanity, ISIS couldn't destroy a country if they tried.
    However, it isn't just the physical organisation itself, but also the ideology it perpetuates. The ideas of Jihadism and extreme Islamism stretch way beyond the Middle East, with many followers being based in the UK as well as throughout the Western world.

    Also, China produces more kilotons (Kt) - almost twice- of CO2 than the United States:

    China: 10,540,000 Kt, United States: 5,334,000 Kt
    (Source: Wikipedia)
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by crypticlocker)
    However, it isn't just the physical organisation itself, but also the ideology it perpetuates. The ideas of Jihadism and extreme Islamism stretch way beyond the Middle East, with many followers being based in the UK as well as throughout the Western world.

    Also, China produces more kilotons (Kt) - almost twice- of CO2 than the United States:

    China: 10,540,000 Kt, United States: 5,334,000 Kt
    (Source: Wikipedia)
    1. Why bring China into it? This has NOTHING TO DO WITH CHINA? What's actually wrong with you? This is strictly a case of ISIS or America, why bring China into it?

    2. And ISIL's ideology is no threat because it has a ridiculously low chance of actually becoming realistic, given that it has declared war on pretty much every faction in Syria, Iraq and most significant world powers. Whereas the USA right now is uncontrollably contributing to global warming.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by crypticlocker)
    I cant believe people think that a Western, liberal country is more of a threat than an Islamist death cult who beheads enemies, rapes women and stones gays on a regular basis without hesitance or mercy.

    You all need to take a long hard look at yourselves in the mirror. :mad:
    Precisely, some nasty characters showing their true colours in this thread. A couple should probably be on a watch list.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    NOTHING TO DO WITH CHINA?
    Clam down, mate
    Your argument is that the US is a bigger threat to the world than ISIS due to their CO2 emissions. By that logic, surely China is a greater threat than both ISIS and the US? Or is the hand wringing leftist in you scared of upsetting your communist masters.

    Anyways,

    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    low chance of actually becoming realistic
    I very much disagree. Ourselves in the west live in a constant fear of terrorist attack after 9/11 and 7/7. We've had to change our behaviour as a result of that (e.g. the Rotherham child abuse scandal and the establishment's feeble response; increased security at airports etc.), therefore the terrorists have won in their first step of changing Western behaviour to conform to their barbaric standards and ideology.

    Before our very eyes, we are seeing a collapse of Western civilisation as a result of incessant pandering to radicalists and sacrificing our own culture and values in order to project an illusion of 'security'.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Arsenal96)
    ISIS want to kill me as I am not Muslim, while the USA don't want to kill me (unless I am threat to them) so easy answer
    Interesting fact: ISIS have actually killed more Muslims than non-Muslims
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by crypticlocker)
    Clam down, mate
    Your argument is that the US is a bigger threat to the world than ISIS due to their CO2 emissions. By that logic, surely China is a greater threat than both ISIS and the US? Or is the hand wringing leftist in you scared of upsetting your communist masters.

    Anyways,



    I very much disagree. Ourselves in the west live in a constant fear of terrorist attack after 9/11 and 7/7. We've had to change our behaviour as a result of that (e.g. the Rotherham child abuse scandal and the establishment's feeble response; increased security at airports etc.), therefore the terrorists have won in their first step of changing Western behaviour to conform to their barbaric standards and ideology.

    Before our very eyes, we are seeing a collapse of Western civilisation as a result of incessant pandering to radicalists and sacrificing our own culture and values in order to project an illusion of 'security'.
    Yes, China is a bigger threat. But China wasn't brought up in the original "America vs ISIS" argument, I was strictly talking about ISIS against America.

    ISIS consists of a few thousand militants with the ability to radicalise foreign nationals into committing low-impact, lone-wolf attacks. And they have a very significant influence in Syria and Iraq. That is the extent of ISIL's influence.

    The USA, on the other hand, is the one of the world's biggest superpowers, it is the largest democratic nation, it has worldwide influence and has something like 300 million citizens. It is a much bigger threat to the world, not in the regard of directly killing people, but with global warming, foreign intervention, etc.

    The USA invaded Vietnam and dropped more bombs than the total number of bombs dropped in WW2, they have the second largest nuclear stockpile, and one of the largest armies in the world.

    Although the USA isn't directly attacking our interests, it has attacked the interests of other countries, and it is directly the second biggest contributor to the most deadly potential thing in the 21st century which is global warming.

    ISIS will probably not exist for longer than another 10 years maximum, the damage it will do in 10 years is vastly smaller than the damage the USA will do in the future, if you look at the actual damage and not just the humanitarian losses.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by GreenOut)
    I read a statistic somewhere that the USA has been involved in war for 75% of its 300ish year existence. I knew Afghans and Iraqis during 6th form, I know Vietnamese and Russian people during from university, and not one of them speaks about the US respectfully, and I am the same. I find them significantly more dangerous than ISIS because they go under the guise of "freedom fighters" or the good guys.

    At least ISIS let you know straight away they want to kill you. The US will try to convince you it's "helping" you as if their views on what is right and wrong (obtained from various slaughters/rebellions/wars i.e. Native Americans, civil wars & you can pretty much pick any country out of a hat with resources) are somehow superior to yours. That is what makes them so much more dangerous.
    Words of wisdom
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    few thousand militants
    The number is estimated to be at 257,900 - not taking into account 'sleeper cells' and the such.

    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    But China wasn't brought up in the original "America vs ISIS" argument
    It wasn't, but I included it to give some perspective. The big, bad United States produces about half of the level of CO2 emissions of the largest nation China. Thus, even with its 'superpower' status and huge economic output it still exercises some degree of control over emissions (despite not having ratified the Kyoto Protocol).

    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    ISIS will probably not exist for longer than another 10 years maximum
    I hope you're right - I really do. But, these kinds of groups have existed for years and splinter off and create new factions.
    For example, Mujahideen, one of the first major jihadi groups was originally formed in 1829 and its influence is still felt throughout the Arab world over a century and a half later. Al-Qaeda grew out of this in 1988 and still exists 28 years later. ISIS has been around since 1999 (17 years). Thus, it is unlikely that they will fall within 10 years.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by crypticlocker)
    The number is estimated to be at 257,900 - not taking into account 'sleeper cells' and the such.



    It wasn't, but I included it to give some perspective. The big, bad United States produces about half of the level of CO2 emissions of the largest nation China. Thus, even with its 'superpower' status and huge economic output it still exercises some degree of control over emissions (despite not having ratified the Kyoto Protocol).



    I hope you're right - I really do. But, these kinds of groups have existed for years and splinter off and create new factions.
    For example, Mujahideen, one of the first major jihadi groups was originally formed in 1829 and its influence is still felt throughout the Arab world over a century and a half later. Al-Qaeda grew out of this in 1988 and still exists 28 years later. ISIS has been around since 1999 (17 years). Thus, it is unlikely that they will fall within 10 years.
    Actually the estimated total is between 58,000 and the number you quoted there. That is the absolute upper limit of the estimate, and even if it were the upper limit, the Syrian armed forces alone have 300,000 soldiers, the rebels have about 160,000 soldiers, the Kurds have just under 100,000 soldiers. So there is no way that ISIS can decisively win Syria, given that they also have the lowest soldier-km^2 density, given that they control a larger area, most of which is desert so it isn't effectively 'held' by ISIL.

    So ISIS has no chance of taking the whole of Syria or Iraq, they are a threat to Syria and Iraq, but they are not the strongest fighting force. And they are the target of coalition airstrikes, worldwide condemnation, etc etc etc... the list goes on - but the point is, ISIS has reached a maximum in its strength and its strength is decreasing.




    And as I said in my previous post, China is worse than the USA, but that doesn't mean the USA is suddenly 'good'. China is a worse country with worse human rights violations, worse contributor to global warming, more corruption, oppression, etc. But when it comes STRICTLY TO ISIS VS THE USA, the USA is worse if you look at all of the negative impacts they make on the world. The thread was strictly USA vs ISIS, and that's why I didn't include China, so please stop talking about China.

    And ISIS didn't establish itself as what it is until 2013, so it technically has existed in its current phase for only 3 years. It was not the same organisation back in the 20th century and from 2000-2010.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    please stop talking about China
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by crypticlocker)
    What is the actual point?
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    What is the actual point?
    China
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by crypticlocker)
    China
    If you're going to give up arguing and not read what I type, then do the world a favour and do that at the beginning because I've wasted my time talking to you
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alcohonick)
    If you're going to give up arguing and not read what I type, then do the world a favour and do that at the beginning because I've wasted my time talking to you
    Yes, I did give up arguing. Shame you don't have a sense of humour though
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 713Wave)
    I never said Chinese people are causing problems in Jewish society etc. I said there are problems in all societies across the globe.
    but not causing the level of problems that those with islamic agendas are causing - and certainly not outside their own societies. this is why noone suggest we start bombing china or israel

    (Original post by 713Wave)

    Now on the case of terrorism - why does it happen? the answer is simple:Every action will have a reaction.

    Lets use Iraq as an example: when that country was invaded and the rulers were removed, it left a vacuum.
    islamic terrorism existed long long before iraq invasion, afgan invasion,, 9/11 and so on - lets get that cleared up before you copy paste your tired rant

    (Original post by 713Wave)
    Part of that vacuum was filled by an Iranian puppet government and the other half (which suffered discrimination because of the new government)
    a government elected by the majority shia muslim population. the remaining sunnis ( less than half) whether discriminated or not, always had interests in a sunni leader ( ie previously saddam) or indeed IS.

    your theory is disproved by IS in syria who are trying to topple an existing leader , without western interference - and drawing support from various islamic terrorists.

    (Original post by 713Wave)

    was unfortunately and inevitably filled by terrorists. (Im not making excuses for them, im simply stating the causal link).
    again islamic terrorists have been around all over the place and long before iraq. there is no causal link here . it is inevitable tho , where sunni leader is displaced , that sunni islamic groups will try stick their oar in - this is another symptom of islamic politics that has a history of 1300 years - and why islam poses problems for the globe.

    (Original post by 713Wave)
    long story short, war should only ever be used as the last resort. And You also need to have proper transitional and withdrawal plan. If you don't then you will have created a medium for terrorism to grow - that's what I'm trying to get at.
    there are lots of reasons for war - but they are not an excuse for terrorism. islamic terrorism exists becuase of islam, not because of wars. the ideology they follow has often started wars in the first placel
 
 
 
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.