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America has Donald Trump, Britain has Jeremy Corbyn Watch

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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Who do you think you are? Absolute joke haha. I've no intrest in being a "debater", I'm in something called the real world son.
    Somebody who clumsily intervened in a conversation that he clearly hasn't followed is calling me a joke. I guess self-awareness is a precious commodity in the 'real world', although it's nice to see that you're happy to have very strong opinions on matters that you know almost nothing about. Were you hand-picked by Corbyn? :lol:

    All I said was, it is reasonable to assume that someone who dislikes Corbyn and his "lunatic left wing" ways, is right-wing. And the most popular right wing party is the Tories. Therefore it is not unreasonable, or "facile" (lol) to assume that someone who dislikes Corbyn, is a Tory. Because most are.
    As above: you haven't followed the conversation at all. I didn't use the expression 'lunatic left-wing' -- you pulled that out of wherever it is that you get your 'common' sense from. The user to whom I responded had replied to the following comment:

    (Original post by Hydeman)
    And out comes the victim complex.
    With this:

    (Original post by ckfeister)
    Go and look at what he says, like on immigration and how to remove defict because why haven't we grown and cutting back more and more? I thought conservatives were doing fine to make it efficient but now they are just taking the pi**
    Feel free to stretch your 'reasonable assumptions' theory this way and that to try to prove how that one comment implied that I was a Tory. It should make for entertaining reading for anybody who's still following this thread. I'm done here, and won't be reading more of your 'common' (non)sense.
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    The difference is that Corbyn isn't very popular.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Says you. Corbyn is advocating a lot of things that you might find yourself agreeing with if you took the time to listen to him and not what the tabloids and right wing media say about him.
    Corbyn thinks that the world is full of clouds and pinecones and that if Britain relinquishes its power and defense then the rest of the world will follow nicely along and we will all live in harmony together.

    I genuinely think Corbyn believes he could have a sit down and a cup of tea with ISIS and sort out all their differences after an aggressive game of scrabble.

    The issue is three part;
    1) The world isn't full of clouds and pinecones.
    2) People will attack, people will try to conquer, take over, for no other intention than to have power and control. The current problem is ISIS. There will always be another. And then another. That's people. That will always be people.
    3) We need strong, realistic people - living here on planet earth - protecting us from those people.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Somebody who clumsily intervened in a conversation that he clearly hasn't followed is calling me a joke. I guess self-awareness is a precious commodity in the 'real world', although it's nice to see that you're happy to have very strong opinions on matters that you know almost nothing about. Were you hand-picked by Corbyn? :lol:



    As above: you haven't followed the conversation at all. I didn't use the expression 'lunatic left-wing' -- you pulled that out of wherever it is that you get your 'common' sense from. The user to whom I responded had replied to the following comment:



    With this:



    Feel free to stretch your 'reasonable assumptions' theory this way and that to try to prove how that one comment implied that I was a Tory. It should make for entertaining reading for anybody who's still following this thread. I'm done here, and won't be reading more of your 'common' (non)sense.

    You scathed at somebody who assumed you were a Tory, and yet you presumptuously assume I'm a male?

    How dare you just assume I'm a male.
    Well that's your reasoning used against you sweetheart. I gave my explanation, you want me to tell you again? How about you go back, take a deep breath (calm the teenage hormones) and digest what I previously said. I shan't repeat myself.


    Oh, you know the way you paranthesised common (non)sense? Yeah I thought that was really witty. Your social skills are going to take you places, you might even venture out of the debate club sometime and speak to a woman!

    Best wishes.
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    (Original post by McWeezy)
    Trumps a Zionist shill

    Corbyn isn't
    Nah, he is a dhimmi.
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    I only respect Corbyn for not being a complete kosherised puppet and his ties with Holocaust truther Paul Eisen
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Farage is an extremist. He's not crazy, but neither is Trump. They both know exactly what they're doing: appealing to the uneducated by lying, manipulating and playing on their sense of nationalistic pride.
    So much wrong with your post.
    Farage isn't an extremist for wanting to tighten immigration control and make sure our already stretched NHS, benefits system, housing situation and much more isn't pushed even further over the edge. These politicians are appealing to people because they care about the citizens of THIS country, which is something that has been vastly overlooked in recent years.

    Why do you assume that people who fall more to the right than the left are uneducated? I'm a student and I base my views and opinions on what I research, what is logical and what I see, hear and read.
    However, what I have come to realize is that the vast majority of guardian-loving-lefty-hypedup-''intellectuals'' AREN'T intellectual AT ALL. They might look it, they might talk like it, but they haven't actually got a single thought they can call their own. They are the mindless swallowers of a rehearsed social doctrine.They defend all minorities whatever the case, whoever you are if you're a minority you're in, they ignore truths, they ignore facts, they close their eyes and sing la-la-la and play a game of pretend. They shout against petty 'sexism' like sweat-shaming yet purposely say nothing about sexism in cultures they defend such as islam -- the niqab for example, not seen a march on that yet but I've seen plenty marches on free the nipple... They speak up for the thousands of male migrants committing sexual acts against citizens of westernized countries and say nothing for the victims...
    If that's liberalism I want no part of it.

    The true mark of intelligence, acceptance and reasoning ISN'T the person listening, swallowing and nodding to everything the mainstream media-outlet gives us to rehearse.

    The true mark of intelligence is the person who sees, reads, listens, thinks.
    The so-called liberals of today clearly aren't an inch as intelligent as they think they are. If they were they'd realize how contradictory and ridiculous their beliefs truly are.

    I see some brilliant, well reasoned, thought provoking posts on tsr. Not a single one comes from the far left side.
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    You get someone self financed who genuinely wants to stop the millions of illegals coming in and the right-wing establishment gangs on them! But wait I always thought it was the right who supported sensible immigration? many of the voters do, but the elites don't.

    Isn't this the same in Britain? and in France we saw with Front National how the two establishment parties worked together to stop them. They will not allow anyone, any party who is outside their influence into power.

    Democracy is an illusion.

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    (Original post by emilyjc17)
    So much wrong with your post.
    Farage isn't an extremist for wanting to tighten immigration control and make sure our already stretched NHS, benefits system, housing situation and much more isn't pushed even further over the edge. These politicians are appealing to people because they care about the citizens of THIS country, which is something that has been vastly overlooked in recent years.
    He's an extremist for suggesting radical solutions to minor problems, pinning the country's biggest problems on a selection of scapegoats, and in many cases just outright lying. He appeals to people because he pretends he has the solution to all their problems. He appeals because he's willing to radical things that nobody else is willing to do.

    Why do you assume that people who fall more to the right than the left are uneducated? I'm a student and I base my views and opinions on what I research, what is logical and what I see, hear and read.
    The vast majority of arguments I see from the likes of Trump and Farage supporters are not researched opinions. In fact, I frequently see people quoting things from Farage that are factually wrong.

    However, what I have come to realize is that the vast majority of guardian-loving-lefty-hypedup-''intellectuals'' AREN'T intellectual AT ALL.They might look it, they might talk like it, but they haven't acually got a single thought they can call their own. They are the mindless swallowers of a rehearsed social doctrine.
    For a start, I don't read the Guardian. If I'm going to educate myself and debate a point, I base my views almost entirely on primary sources. I'll occasionally quote a Guardian article if it mentions some stats and I can't be bothered finding the source, but I'll do the same thing with the Daily Mail. I don't read either of them unless they pop up when I'm searching for relevant facts.

    They defend all minorities whatever the case, whoever you are if you're a minority you're in, they ignore truths, they ignore facts, they close their eyes and sing la-la-la and play a game of pretend.
    Nope. I'm just not going to look at a few people committing crimes and somehow extrapolate this into a statement about their ideology/religion/race. When a white German male sexually assaults someone, it's rarely in the news, and if it is, you don't pay attention to the fact that he's a white German male. If a Syrian refugee does it, it will be in the news, and it will be made clear that he's a Syrian refugee. Does that mean Syrian refugees are any more likely to sexually assault someone than white German males? No, of course it doesn't, but if you just read the headlines and don't think about bias, then you'll probably believe otherwise. So it's ironic that you criticise me for "blindly following the media" and other such nonsense when the majority of these radical views are based in people too stupid to think critically about what they're reading.

    They shout against petty 'sexism' like sweat-shaming yet purposely say nothing about sexism in cultures they defend such as islam -- the niqab for example, not seen a march on that yet but I've seen plenty marches on free the nipple... They speak up for the thousands of male migrants committing sexual acts against citizens of westernized countries and say nothing for the victims...
    If that's liberalism I want no part of it.
    The UK isn't Saudi Arabia. Nobody's campaigning against the oppression of women in Islamic cultures because we don't live in one. We can't change what Saudi Arabia does, or what peoples' attitudes are in Saudi Arabia. But we can change what the UK does, and what peoples' attitudes are in the UK. People try to change their own culture before they try to change cultures hundreds of miles across the world, it's really not that absurd.

    As for your point about migrants and sexual assaults, I could say the same thing about how you say nothing for the victims of criminals who don't happen to be migrants. They don't matter to you, because you can't use their suffering to fuel your hate campaign. I feel especially sorry for the victims of sexual assaults who have their trauma paraded out by the media and turned into a political talking point by xenophobes.

    Of course, I and most other people do care about the people that have been assaulted by migrants. We also care about people who have been assault by natives. We don't say it because it's not relevant and should be assumed, but your lot will use anything to demonize the nasty liberals.

    I'm simply not going to condemn millions of people and pretend there's some sort of huge ideological issue because a few hundred people do bad things. That's ludicrous and beyond reason. White people commit sexual assault to. Is there some sort of problem in the West? Is it our culture??????

    The true mark of intelligence, acceptance and reasoning ISN'T the person listening, swallowing and nodding to everything the mainstream media-outlet gives us to rehearse.

    The true mark of intelligence is the person who sees, reads, listens, thinks.
    You're almost there, just need to start thinking!

    The so-called liberals of today clearly aren't an inch as intelligent as they think they are. If they were they'd realize how contradictory and ridiculous their beliefs truly are.

    I see some brilliant, well reasoned, thought provoking posts on tsr. Not a single one comes from the far left side.
    Confirmation bias is a funny thing.
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    (Original post by EccentricDiamond)
    Both are as crazy and extremist as each other just polar opposites of the political spectrum
    No.

    Jeremy Corbyn advocates policies that would be mainstream in places like Germany or Scandinavia, many of which are supported by the majority of the British population (bringing the railways and the energy industry back into public ownership, raising taxation on the wealthy, introducing rent controls, and so on).

    Donald Trump is the product of a Republican Party which has drifted off the political spectrum and has developed contempt for such a large group of people - including its political opposition - that Donald Trump is simply the product of them saying it out loud. Donald Trump's policies are not mainstream anywhere, except in some quasi-fascist dictatorship, although if there were one place in which they would be mainstream, it would have to be the United States.

    Donald Trump talks nonsense, engages in personal attack after personal attack, and is a member of the establishment. Jeremy Corbyn engages in policy discussion, is courteous and polite, and claims the least in expenses out of any MP in Parliament. He's spent his entire life representing real people and communities, whilst Donald Trump has represented himself and his string of failed business ventures.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    A better comparison with Trump is Nigel Farage - or Boris Johnson. Right wing populists who make a lot of stuff up and pretend to be what they are not to appeal to working class voters.
    You're a long way off the mark with Boris, at least as you've put it here. A lot of Boris's appeal is in how genuine he comes across. He doesn't try to hide his background. In that there actually is some limited comparison with Donald Trump. Trump didn't take the Romney approach of claiming to be an ordinary bloke. That sort of falseness repulses voters.

    That said, the Corbyn parallel is limited too. Trump is saying what he thinks his electorate wants to hear. Corbyn is in general saying what he really thinks, although it just so happens that few want to hear it. In terms of picking policy positions on the basis of their appeal rather than the candidate's own beliefs (if any), the Donald-Boris is more accurate. (Farage I think has more real belief in what he says on at least the matters that matter to him.) The more obvious Sanders parallel applies to Corbyn, although I think there are aspects of the latter that make him a lot less plausibly electable than the former.

    (Original post by viddy9)
    whilst Donald Trump has represented himself and his string of failed business ventures.
    He's clearly a successful businessman. You'd be better attacking him on the actual valid grounds that you have. It's not as though there isn't enough serious material.

    The attacks he receives on the basis that he's let some companies become insolvent are ridiculous. That's the whole point of conducting business through a separate legal entity. To structure your assets and liabilities and ultimately manage your risk.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    He's an extremist for suggesting radical solutions to minor problems, pinning the country's biggest problems on a selection of scapegoats, and in many cases just outright lying. He appeals to people because he pretends he has the solution to all their problems. He appeals because he's willing to radical things that nobody else is willing to do.



    The vast majority of arguments I see from the likes of Trump and Farage supporters are not researched opinions. In fact, I frequently see people quoting things from Farage that are factually wrong.



    For a start, I don't read the Guardian. If I'm going to educate myself and debate a point, I base my views almost entirely on primary sources. I'll occasionally quote a Guardian article if it mentions some stats and I can't be bothered finding the source, but I'll do the same thing with the Daily Mail. I don't read either of them unless they pop up when I'm searching for relevant facts.



    Nope. I'm just not going to look at a few people committing crimes and somehow extrapolate this into a statement about their ideology/religion/race. When a white German male sexually assaults someone, it's rarely in the news, and if it is, you don't pay attention to the fact that he's a white German male. If a Syrian refugee does it, it will be in the news, and it will be made clear that he's a Syrian refugee. Does that mean Syrian refugees are any more likely to sexually assault someone than white German males? No, of course it doesn't, but if you just read the headlines and don't think about bias, then you'll probably believe otherwise. So it's ironic that you criticise me for "blindly following the media" and other such nonsense when the majority of these radical views are based in people too stupid to think critically about what they're reading.



    The UK isn't Saudi Arabia. Nobody's campaigning against the oppression of women in Islamic cultures because we don't live in one. We can't change what Saudi Arabia does, or what peoples' attitudes are in Saudi Arabia. But we can change what the UK does, and what peoples' attitudes are in the UK. People try to change their own culture before they try to change cultures hundreds of miles across the world, it's really not that absurd.

    As for your point about migrants and sexual assaults, I could say the same thing about how you say nothing for the victims of criminals who don't happen to be migrants. They don't matter to you, because you can't use their suffering to fuel your hate campaign. I feel especially sorry for the victims of sexual assaults who have their trauma paraded out by the media and turned into a political talking point by xenophobes.

    Of course, I and most other people do care about the people that have been assaulted by migrants. We also care about people who have been assault by natives. We don't say it because it's not relevant and should be assumed, but your lot will use anything to demonize the nasty liberals.

    I'm simply not going to condemn millions of people and pretend there's some sort of huge ideological issue because a few hundred people do bad things. That's ludicrous and beyond reason. White people commit sexual assault to. Is there some sort of problem in the West? Is it our culture??????



    You're almost there, just need to start thinking!



    Confirmation bias is a funny thing.

    Hate campaign? For real? People like you trod the long-overused terms out like 'hate campaign' and 'xenophobic' out to silence people like me who speak out against your rehearsed liberal propaganda. But more and more people ARE speaking out.

    Why in Cologne was it a huge group of migrants committing sexual assaults? Why don't we ever see a huge group of native British people or Germans or French people doing the same? Why is that? BECAUSE, the migrants that are committing these sexual assaults are doing it because they came to western countries with completely different views, values and a culture so polar-opposite to our own it is frankly hilarious to expect them to integrate - women who work, wear 'revealing' clothing and don't subscribe to their customs are nothing but whores to them - they've said that themselves.

    The clip below will demonstrate this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPnBzjQD_9Q

    "Up to a thousand men - of arab origin - groping these women"
    On what scale does this happen perpetrated by native westernised men in western countries in modern times??


    Watch the delightful scenes in the clip below, and watch what the muslim woman says to the western woman dressed in western clothing. Does this clip demonstrate integration? Would you want to live here?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2nlIfn8tNA

    To go back to your point on why tackling sexism in arab countries when we have our own problems is stupid. Well, duh. Because those people with that culture live here. We don't need to go abroad- we tackle it here. In muslim culture women are very famously unfairly treated, if you really believe otherwise then I don't know what to tell you. Have a good long read over the weekend because nothing I say will make a difference. The niqab is offensive to every feminist movement ever made, men can beat their wives, women are encouraged to not work, to be obedient, to be basically second-class citizens to the point that David Cameron has actually made a stand on that issue.

    I'm not xenophobic in the slightest. I love new cultures. I love travel. I love to meet people who come from different backgrounds.
    Here's what I hate.
    Sexism.
    Animal cruelty.
    Intolerance of western living and values
    Intolerance of free speech.
    Homophobia
    Going absolutely apeshit about cartoons.

    What I've learned is that immigrants coming from countries that have backward ideologies import all those things above when they come here.
    It isn't liberal, or loving, or good to accept EVERYTHING regardless of the dangers posed - it's moronic.
    You stand for everything that is wrong with the UK.

    I do not enjoy having views that are the polar opposite that every lefty lecturing news channel and hipster twitterer tells me to believe - it is not easy, it is not for the faint hearted, I often wish that I could mindlessly and numbly go along with the masses, but I can't.

    I stand for the harder point of view. But the right one.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    You're a long way off the mark with Boris, at least as you've put it here. A lot of Boris's appeal is in how genuine he comes across. He doesn't try to hide his background. In that there actually is some limited comparison with Donald Trump. Trump didn't take the Romney approach of claiming to be an ordinary bloke. That sort of falseness repulses voters.
    Actually, Boris has never much liked the scrutiny of his posh past. He is touchy about it and has often tried to mask it with jokes or half-truths. So for example in various interviews over the years where he talked about being middle class (he's very very upper) and his avoidance of any discussion of his years at Eton and Oxford with Cameron. He always refuses to discuss the Bullingdons, brushing it aside with jokes. He hated it when on HIGNFY once they read out his full list of absurdly posh names. He really has a thing about trying to act down.
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    "we're building a wall people"
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Actually, Boris has never much liked the scrutiny of his posh past. He is touchy about it and has often tried to mask it with jokes or half-truths. So for example in various interviews over the years where he talked about being middle class (he's very very upper) and his avoidance of any discussion of his years at Eton and Oxford with Cameron. He always refuses to discuss the Bullingdons, brushing it aside with jokes. He hated it when on HIGNFY once they read out his full list of absurdly posh names. He really has a thing about trying to act down.
    I think there's a difference between playing down the truth and actively putting on a false front. I can't see Boris ever drinking tea from a big mug in his second kitchen on camera to show that he's just like the typical voter, for instance.

    I'll grant that I might have gone a bit far in saying he 'doesn't try to hide' it. He's not quite in the Rees-Mogg position of being out with it and screw you all if you don't like it. I think that's understandable, though, for such a prominent politician. He doesn't have a lot to gain from talking about it more.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)








    The UK isn't Saudi Arabia. Nobody's campaigning against the oppression of women in Islamic cultures because we don't live in one. We can't change what Saudi Arabia does, or what peoples' attitudes are in Saudi Arabia. But we can change what the UK does, and what peoples' attitudes are in the UK. People try to change their own culture before they try to change cultures hundreds of miles across the world, it's really not that absurd.
    .
    we should and can change attitudes and society - it takes time and effort and will. we changed apartheid south africa, we changed ussr, we changed zimbabwe ( though not to any massive extent) via political and social means and concerted effort amoungst a group of of countries. admittedly some of our efforts were embarrasingly late - ie our forceful condemning of the apartheid regieme had to be led taken by actions taken by asian countries like india and china and indeed the then USSR - but we got there in the end and a global effort changed society in south africa.

    you (and it seems corbyns) appeasement of islamist doctrines and their implementations in a legal framework like that of saudi arabia seems similar to what britain did of aparthied south africa in the early 1970s - ie turning a blind eye
 
 
 
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