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    (Original post by DanielJames)
    I was born shortly after the glory years of Thatcher, unfortunately into a Labour government. I have grown up for the majority of my life under a labour government, a labour government that has failed. I have no reason to ever trust them again. While at the moment under the Tories unemployment is falling, benefits are being cut, we are continuing to invest in Trident, while slowly pulling troops out of the mess that is Afghanistan. I have pretty good knowledge of historical politics too since I have studied it, and I can say that Labour has been mostly on the bad side throughout. I'll admit that the Tories have had failures but in the present day and age they are the best party to run this country.
    [also just to note, the Keynesism approach of borrow and spend doesn't work, we get in to debt with people we should get in to debt with, and the economy slides even further. Hence the recession we seem to have got ourselves out of under a Tory government.
    i classify myself in the centre but i don't know how people can vote for a party that are willing to cut funds for disabled people to feed the rich. That is just evil imo. Can never vote tory again.
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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    Conservatives were doing cuts to make it more efficient but now are just taking the pi** I'm centre-right but I think labour should have a chance in 2020, what do you all think?


    **** no.

    Conservatives are the bad guys and Labour are deluded retards who will pander to any group to get votes.

    They will f*ck up this country twice as bad as the conservatives have.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Oh FFS, the Tories worst week in years and Corbyn couldn't land a glove. You've got to think that someone like Blair would be making mincemeat of them at the moment.
    He has to go, someone needs to challenge him before it's too late.
    During the Prime Ministers statement to the house about Iain Duncan Smith's resignation, Corbyn didn't even mention it!! He just complained a bit about how the Prime Minister had only sent him half of his statement in advance, and babbled on about a few other topics. He is manifestly unsuited to the position of Opposition Leader.

    Dan Jarvis is definitely the man to lead the party. He is on the soft left of the party (Milibandite views, despite all the smears against him), and his personal background (officer in the parachute regiment, served in Sierra Leone, Balkans, Afghanistan, Iraq... widower and single father whose wife died of cancer, bringing up his children alone) is pure gold.

    Miliband's policies were actually quite popular, it was just his own lack of credibility as a leader that stuffed us. Jarvis carrying a Milibandite platform to the next election will see the Tories get stuffed. They are already tiring out as a government, and they simply could not smear Jarvis in the way they have smeared others without coming across as unpatriotic, unfeeling *******s
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    (Original post by Arran90)
    Nobody has mentioned the 1930s. The Great Depression coincided with a massive Conservative majority in Parliament. Does anybody know why this was the case? Was it the result of a lack of a credible opposition more than anything else?
    That's not strictly true. Ramsay McDonald, a Labour Party man, was Prime Minister all through the depression until 1935. He broke away from the Labour Party to lead a government of national unity, of which the Conservatives were the major part (as were the Liberals and a small number of "National Labour" MPs)

    But we can't really say what the outcome of the 1931 election would have been if it had been a conventional Labour vs Conservative contest. Ramsay McDonald was seen as broadly credible even by the Conservatives who could have overthrown him with their parliamentary numbers. They allowed him to remain as Prime Minister, the country at large was electing a National Government administration rather than a conservative one
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    During the Prime Ministers statement to the house about Iain Duncan Smith's resignation, Corbyn didn't even mention it!! He just complained a bit about how the Prime Minister had only sent him half of his statement in advance, and babbled on about a few other topics. He is manifestly unsuited to the position of Opposition Leader.

    Dan Jarvis is definitely the man to lead the party. He is on the soft left of the party (Milibandite views, despite all the smears against him), and his personal background (officer in the parachute regiment, served in Sierra Leone, Balkans, Afghanistan, Iraq... widower and single father whose wife died of cancer, bringing up his children alone) is pure gold.

    Miliband's policies were actually quite popular, it was just his own lack of credibility as a leader that stuffed us. Jarvis carrying a Milibandite platform to the next election will see the Tories get stuffed. They are already tiring out as a government, and they simply could not smear Jarvis in the way they have smeared others without coming across as unpatriotic, unfeeling *******s
    Yes, the messenger in many ways is as important as the message.
    Let's just hope we have Dan Jarvis going into the next election.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Yes, the messenger in many ways is as important as the message.
    Absolutely. It does make me angry when the Corbyn wing of the party claim that somehow that only under Corbyn are we "truly" opposing the Tories, that in 2010 and 2015 we were under a Blairite platform. That is manifestly nonsense; Miliband had quite a radical platform (breaking up the banks with a cap on market share, creating a government bank to compete with the City of London, increasing income tax for top rate earners, repealing the hedge fund tax cut, bringing rail back into public ownership, repealing the bedroom tax, increasing the corporate tax rate, levying a tax on banker bonuses... there's an excellent list of Labour policies from 2014 here http://www.labourleft.co.uk/100-labo...rginal-report/ In some ways I think McDonnell has been less radical than that on the basis that they are already perceived as being too left wing, which is a huge problem in itself.. with Corbyn as leader we are already playing catch up and having to jettison radical policies so as to counter the perception that Corbyn is too left-wing)

    I was very disappointed that the country didn't elect a Labour government, and it is indeed unfortunate that people can be quite superficial and simply didn't perceive Miliband as Prime Ministerial. But thems the breaks. Under a Jarvis-led party and with a populist Milibandite agenda (the energy price freeze was quite popular as well, as was the cap on rent increases and greater tenants rights) we'll absolutely be in a position to smash the Tories. The next election will be a bridge too far for them, they are already falling apart. The ten years following the next election could be what the 1980s were for Labour if we can get our acts together and get a leader who is in a position to exploit it

    Let's just hope we have Dan Jarvis going into the next election.
    Absolutely. But I feel more confident than the accepted wisdom that he could win a leadership challenge this year. The Corbynites were unable to win the Young Labour contest for the NEC seat, and it was taken by a moderate, despite pouring massive resources into that campaign and Young Labour being an area where presumably the Corbynites would win at a canter.

    If the soft left and moderate factions agree that only one candidate will stand (Jarvis) so as not to split the vote, I think that many Corbynites will see that Jarvis could really win the next election and will feel that they want that future for the party. I also believe a Jarvis ticket could do well from £3 voters from outside the party, both non-members of the sort who don't like the Tories but couldn't bring themselves to vote Miliband or Corbyn (and desperately want a true Labour alternative) and also from members who left the party under the Corbyn ascendancy.

    But we will have to see. I live in hope
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    Absolutely. It does make me angry when the Corbyn wing of the party claim that somehow that only under Corbyn are we "truly" opposing the Tories, that in 2010 and 2015 we were under a Blairite platform. That is manifestly nonsense; Miliband had quite a radical platform (breaking up the banks with a cap on market share, creating a government bank to compete with the City of London, increasing income tax for top rate earners, repealing the hedge fund tax cut, bringing rail back into public ownership, repealing the bedroom tax, increasing the corporate tax rate, levying a tax on banker bonuses... there's an excellent list of Labour policies from 2014 here http://www.labourleft.co.uk/100-labo...rginal-report/ In some ways I think McDonnell has been less radical than that on the basis that they are already perceived as being too left wing, which is a huge problem in itself.. with Corbyn as leader we are already playing catch up and having to jettison radical policies so as to counter the perception that Corbyn is too left-wing)

    I was very disappointed that the country didn't elect a Labour government, and it is indeed unfortunate that people can be quite superficial and simply didn't perceive Miliband as Prime Ministerial. But thems the breaks. Under a Jarvis-led party and with a populist Milibandite agenda (the energy price freeze was quite popular as well, as was the cap on rent increases and greater tenants rights) we'll absolutely be in a position to smash the Tories. The next election will be a bridge too far for them, they are already falling apart. The ten years following the next election could be what the 1980s were for Labour if we can get our acts together and get a leader who is in a position to exploit it



    Absolutely. But I feel more confident than the accepted wisdom that he could win a leadership challenge this year. The Corbynites were unable to win the Young Labour contest for the NEC seat, and it was taken by a moderate, despite pouring massive resources into that campaign and Young Labour being an area where presumably the Corbynites would win at a canter.

    If the soft left and moderate factions agree that only one candidate will stand (Jarvis) so as not to split the vote, I think that many Corbynites will see that Jarvis could really win the next election and will feel that they want that future for the party. I also believe a Jarvis ticket could do well from £3 voters from outside the party, both non-members of the sort who don't like the Tories but couldn't bring themselves to vote Miliband or Corbyn (and desperately want a true Labour alternative) and also from members who left the party under the Corbyn ascendancy.

    But we will have to see. I live in hope
    Where does Dan Jarvis stand in the political spectrum anyway. His personal background is very impressive though and he would appeal to a lot of people. He has actually had a career outside of politics.
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    (Original post by xxvine)
    Where does Dan Jarvis stand in the political spectrum anyway. His personal background is very impressive though and he would appeal to a lot of people. He has actually had a career outside of politics.
    Blue Labour. A bit more right wing on social issues like immigration and foreign policy but more protectionist economically.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Blue Labour. A bit more right wing on social issues like immigration and foreign policy but more protectionist economically.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    No he's not lool
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Oh FFS, the Tories worst week in years and Corbyn couldn't land a glove. You've got to think that someone like Blair would be making mincemeat of them at the moment.
    He has to go, someone needs to challenge him before it's too late.
    Has it occurred to you that if Corbyn had spoken his mind about IDS then what he would have said would have been so caustic and abrasive that he would have been thrown out of Parliament? MPs are prohibited from launching hateful and abusive personal attacks on other MPs.
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    (Original post by Arran90)
    Has it occurred to you that if Corbyn had spoken his mind about IDS then what he would have said would have been so caustic and abrasive that he would have been thrown out of Parliament? MPs are prohibited from launching hateful and abusive personal attacks on other MPs.
    Makes Corbyn sound lovely.

    Cameron has mastered the art of slamming other politicians without crossing lines, Corbyn just sucks.
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    With Corbyn/McDonnell in charge? F*** NO!

    With Dan Jarvis (increasingly looking like the guy to challenge Corbyn)? A chance yes, but a slim one as the public never choose a party riven by splits, e.g 1997 Conservatives, 2010 Labour, in the preceding parliamentary term; quite sensibly, they tend to think that if a party can't get themselves together to create a co-ordinated policy/leadership, then how are they going to produce/maintain a united country?! What makes things a little more interesting this time though, is that the Conservatives are divided too, over Europe, and less so, but also importantly, about need to produce a budget surplus at all costs.

    However, I have a feeling that the EU referendum result will resolve that issue for a few years at least, and budget surplus divisions are mild compared to Labour and Trident/attitude to private enterprise, so Tories have to throw it away really.
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    No way. If Corbyn is PM, I'm genuinely going to leave the country
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    I will vote for labour this time, same as i voted for them last time. I may even vote to stay in europe, against my better judgement, simply because i think that it will be better for the economy that we do!
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    Absolutely. It does make me angry when the Corbyn wing of the party claim that somehow that only under Corbyn are we "truly" opposing the Tories, that in 2010 and 2015 we were under a Blairite platform. That is manifestly nonsense; Miliband had quite a radical platform (breaking up the banks with a cap on market share, creating a government bank to compete with the City of London, increasing income tax for top rate earners, repealing the hedge fund tax cut, bringing rail back into public ownership, repealing the bedroom tax, increasing the corporate tax rate, levying a tax on banker bonuses... there's an excellent list of Labour policies from 2014 here http://www.labourleft.co.uk/100-labo...rginal-report/ In some ways I think McDonnell has been less radical than that on the basis that they are already perceived as being too left wing, which is a huge problem in itself.. with Corbyn as leader we are already playing catch up and having to jettison radical policies so as to counter the perception that Corbyn is too left-wing)

    I was very disappointed that the country didn't elect a Labour government, and it is indeed unfortunate that people can be quite superficial and simply didn't perceive Miliband as Prime Ministerial. But thems the breaks. Under a Jarvis-led party and with a populist Milibandite agenda (the energy price freeze was quite popular as well, as was the cap on rent increases and greater tenants rights) we'll absolutely be in a position to smash the Tories. The next election will be a bridge too far for them, they are already falling apart. The ten years following the next election could be what the 1980s were for Labour if we can get our acts together and get a leader who is in a position to exploit it



    Absolutely. But I feel more confident than the accepted wisdom that he could win a leadership challenge this year. The Corbynites were unable to win the Young Labour contest for the NEC seat, and it was taken by a moderate, despite pouring massive resources into that campaign and Young Labour being an area where presumably the Corbynites would win at a canter.

    If the soft left and moderate factions agree that only one candidate will stand (Jarvis) so as not to split the vote, I think that many Corbynites will see that Jarvis could really win the next election and will feel that they want that future for the party. I also believe a Jarvis ticket could do well from £3 voters from outside the party, both non-members of the sort who don't like the Tories but couldn't bring themselves to vote Miliband or Corbyn (and desperately want a true Labour alternative) and also from members who left the party under the Corbyn ascendancy.

    But we will have to see. I live in hope
    Go soft team soft left :hippie:

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Blue Labour. A bit more right wing on social issues like immigration and foreign policy but more protectionist economically.Posted from TSR Mobile
    Noooooooo. Social liberalism is like the only good thing with the current trajectory of politics and society :sad:.
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    If nearly 60% of the grassroots support Corbyn then does Dan Jarvis even stand a chance of becoming leader?

    Corbyn might be very unpopular on TSR and amongst the indigenous white working class but even if he manages to find just half a million friends who are members of Labour then he will be very difficult to defeat as leader even after poor election results.

    Labour has entered uncharted territory. Corbyn is not another Michael Foot. I suspect that the Corbyn supporter's priority is the restoration of Old Labour even if it means having to sacrifice the 2020 general election to the Conservatives. By 2025 Labour could have another Lenin as its leader and the party will have been purged of the so called moderates.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Go soft team soft left
    Is that supposed to mean something in the English language?
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    (Original post by Arran90)
    If nearly 60% of the grassroots support Corbyn then does Dan Jarvis even stand a chance of becoming leader?

    Corbyn might be very unpopular on TSR and amongst the indigenous white working class but even if he manages to find just half a million friends who are members of Labour then he will be very difficult to defeat as leader even after poor election results.

    Labour has entered uncharted territory. Corbyn is not another Michael Foot. I suspect that the Corbyn supporter's priority is the restoration of Old Labour even if it means having to sacrifice the 2020 general election to the Conservatives. By 2025 Labour could have another Lenin as its leader and the party will have been purged of the so called moderates.
    I don't think he'd get the 35 MPs needed to get on the ballot.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    A poll would have been good
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    I am neither a Labour party member nor supporter but I'm beginning to wonder whether many contributers to this discussion have a vested interest in Labour and are 'pissed off' for the want of a better phrase with the choice of its leader.
 
 
 
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