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    (Original post by greatguy231)
    But you just said if I if someone shouts 'allah arsbar' that means islam is responsible.
    No I didn't. I said her shouting this means Islam has something to do with this incident and I did not say that no other factors are involved.

    So going by your logic islam is to blame for everything.
    This makes no sense whatsoever and does not follow from what I said.
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    This makes me so angry that poor innocent child.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No I didn't. I said her shouting this means Islam has something to do with this incident and I did not say that no other factors are involved.



    This makes no sense whatsoever and does not follow from what I said.
    So islam is to blame for this because she shouted a name- is that what you are saying?
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    (Original post by greatguy231)
    How can someone who doesn't exist be responsible for anything?
    Lol, Muhammed definitely existed :s
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    (Original post by z33)

    But okay then, this woman has obviously got some sort of mental illness, no sane human being can commit such vile acts. She's also a nanny, who was clearly trusted by the parents to take care of this child. I don't know if they have a history with her or not but she must've looked good for the job on paper. Also I'd like to point out that even though there may be verses in the Quran you can claim to encourage murder, even if there are Ahadith that encourage such vile acts, they all exclude children. I'm sure you cant find anything anywhere suggesting killing a child in the name of Islam is a right thing to do on any level. Another reason why I think this was mainly to do with her mental health.
    While it's very possible that she does indeed have some mental illness, I think it's disingenuous to imply that no sane person could do such a thing. Plenty of terrorists and just normal people have done things just as bad or worse than this and it is absurd to think that all of them were insane. It is perfectly possible to be completely sane and still be incredibly bloodthirsty, fanatical and violent.
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    (Original post by greatguy231)
    So islam is to blame for this because she shouted a name- is that what you are saying?
    Reread my post.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Thanks for the well thought out response.. This is the sort of discussion i was hoping to generate
    Cheers mate. Happy to give some input. Discussion is always interesting!
    Particularly on such difficult topics which aren't really something that is usually discussed face to face.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Reread my post.
    Yep that is what you are saying
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    (Original post by greatguy231)
    Yesterday in london 2 teenagers stabbed another one to death. How come you not talking about that? is it because they weren't muslims so you cant bash the religion for that?
    We could talk about that, I'm sure someone somewhere is; but right here right now we are talking about a woman who murdered a toddler and out of her own mouth came glaring references to the religion that is Islam.

    Stop deflecting.
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    (Original post by greatguy231)
    Yep that is what you are saying
    You said that, not me.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    16th Century...
    ... you said
    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Its a pretty hideous thing to do, most humans would not be able to carry out such barbarous acts.

    were they not human in the 16th century?

    idk why it's in practice in the modern day though. Though is it any different to execution by the electric chair which was last used in 2013? Which is still legalised in some states in America? not defending it though - both are disgusting methods of ending lives.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Reread my post.
    I am about 80% sure he is a troll. I just don't know how you could troll under a topic such as this (accounts for remaining 20%).
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    While it's very possible that she does indeed have some mental illness, I think it's disingenuous to imply that no sane person could do such a thing. Plenty of terrorists and just normal people have done things just as bad or worse than this and it is absurd to think that all of them were insane. It is perfectly possible to be completely sane and still be incredibly bloodthirsty, fanatical and violent.
    ...well it's not normal to be incredibly bloodthirsty, fanatical and violent right? I mean usually it's an act of self-defense. Maybe she was brainwashed to do it by extremist family members? I just don't see how you can be a normal nanny looking after someone's kid and then decide to chop its head off and run into the streets screaming GOD IS GREAT - surely that's the opposite of normal?
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    (Original post by morgan8002)
    The article doesn't say that she's Muslim.
    Numerous bystanders and eye witnesses reported her shouting Allah ackbar. She is also wearing what i believe is a "Chador" a form of traditional Islamic dress.

    (Original post by greatguy231)
    Yesterday in london 2 teenagers stabbed another one to death. How come you not talking about that? is it because they weren't muslims so you cant bash the religion for that?
    I am not interested in the significance or reasons behind knife crimes amongst gangs or impoverished youths. Its a well trodden and understood area.
    Maybe you could now ask me why im not talking about White adam Johnson!? Or why im not talking about some white gunman killing someone?

    Now stop derailing my thread with your nonsense
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    You said that, not me.
    (Original post by leavingthecity)
    I am about 80% sure he is a troll. I just don't know how you could troll under a topic such as this (accounts for remaining 20%).

    it's greatguy, ofcourse he's a troll - do yall live under rocks?
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    (Original post by z33)
    ...well it's not normal to be incredibly bloodthirsty, fanatical and violent right? I mean usually it's an act of self-defense. Maybe she was brainwashed to do it by extremist family members? I just don't see how you can be a normal nanny looking after someone's kid and then decide to chop its head off and run into the streets screaming GOD IS GREAT - surely that's the opposite of normal?
    Well of course it's not normal, but it's certainly possible to have these characteristics and not suffer from any mental illnesses. Perhaps she was, hopefully we'll know more about her as the story unfolds further.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well of course it's not normal, but it's certainly possible to have these characteristics and not suffer from any mental illnesses. Perhaps she was, hopefully we'll know more about her as the story unfolds further.
    Yeah, if it's not mental illness and not terrorism I don't know what it is. Hopefully...
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    He's definitely a troll on his 231st dupe. He craves attention so I'll stop giving it to him.
    God knows how someone could act like that when discussing such things.

    Surprised he's got this far, he cannot navigate an argument, he doesn't/can't read responses to his posts. Oh well.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I see. This is the sort of direction I wanted the discussion to progress. So its more a cultural / religious link?

    What is it that drives this link and what is the significance behind beheading? Its a pretty hideous thing to do, most humans would not be able to carry out such barbarous acts. There is a distinct difference between plunging a knife into someones chest and beheading somebody even though both acts will usually be fatal
    I think its more to do with time, Christianity has had far longer to adjust itself to life in a moderate, democratic society. Look back a couple of centuries and it was just as bad as Islam, if not worse. Hell we used to burn people at the stake and crucify them as recently as the 1500's.

    Even now in the Bible belt and in Africa (two of the last bastions of fundamental christianity) girls are branded as witches and stoned, gays are murdered and children are beaten and punished according to religious doctrine.

    So I think Islam has a serious problem at the moment, but its not a problem that's unique to its religion. It's a consequence of it being integrated into western culture at a far later date than other mainstream religions, and at a time where the west is actively persecuting muslims overseas.

    Any Abrahamic religion, in its truest form, is incompatible with civilised society. This is because they follow religious rules and laws laid down when the world was far more volatile, and they have similar controlling tropes that try and increase the spread of its religion whilst punishing those who may want to abandon it.
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    (Original post by z33)
    it's greatguy, ofcourse he's a troll - do yall live under rocks?
    I know but....the subject at hand!!!!

    I'm new here can't you tell.
 
 
 
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