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Ever wonder how strong a African lion is: Watch

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    Well according to this source, the strength of the lion lays in his front limbs, his shoulders, arms and frontal area...when dissected for the first time in history, they found that hidden beneath the mane is a massive hump of muscle that exceeds the same anterior parts of tigers. And according to the source the lion has been shown to have killed black and brown bears with one blow caving in their heads or breaking their spines, decapitated pumas, smite'd jaguars to death, broken the backs of siberian tigers an with a single blow layed a bengal tiger dead... and even killed his own kin with a blow from his paw. If brown bears werent enough of a feat, lions have killed animals larger then them, like horses, cows, bulls oxen and even giant eland with using just there paws as striking weapons, a animal that can weigh a maximum of 4,000 pounds.

    Most of the biologist and zoologist have compared the strength of the lions strikes to that of steam hammer, lightning bolt, nays-myth hammer, which has killed hundreds of zebra, hyena, wildebeest and more...it can even break a two by four, an his strength can even hold off a jeep from moving with his paws:

    http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=36072
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    Interesing view on the asiatic lion
    http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35950

    And the lions mane:
    http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35987

    And captive lions:
    http://wildanimalwarfare.yuku.com/to...1#.VtTOFZwrLIU

    and a video:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i5otS5rqyY
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    not as strong as a tiger presumably?
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    Lions are amazing :love:
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    Is there a reason your using horribly out dated references to talk about these animals? Sorry but a Lion does not hunt by going to a watering hole and roaring so much that its prey gets so scared that it runs into it.
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    (Original post by neal95)
    not as strong as a tiger presumably?
    It would be cool to see the tigers feats too.

    heres some accounts of tigers killing lions:
    http://wildanimalwarfare.yuku.com/to...s#.VtTVf5wrLIU

    and some other fights:
    http://wildanimalwarfare.yuku.com/to...s#.VtTVbJwrLIU

    theres even accounts of leopards killing tigers:
    http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35256

    and wild dogs fighting tigers:

    http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru....asp?TID=35515
    1. (Original post by Gwilym101)
      Is there a reason your using horribly out dated references to talk about these animals? Sorry but a Lion does not hunt by going to a watering hole and roaring so much that its prey gets so scared that it runs into it.
    The title of the book is called...The Human Interest Library: Popular science and industry...the source didnt say thats how lions primarily hunt, it only gestured a tactics observed...an how is that impossible? The lions roar is the most powerful of the carnivorous animals, if a lion roared at a unexpected animal, I would think it would make a bolt in any direction more so in a act of confusion which could lead them to the lions direction.

    The roar is so powerful it can be heard 5 miles out, I would think if the lion is in leaping distance and he roared the prey would only have two places to go, to jump in the water or go directly in the path of the lion... it seems as if you are portraying it as the lion will roar from miles out, then the animal will calmly look around, spot the lion a mile away....then run straight at him...lol
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    Stronger than your grammar, I'm guessing :holmes:
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    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    [/list]The title of the book is called...The Human Interest Library: Popular science and industry...the source didnt say thats how lions primarily hunt, it only gestured a tactics observed...an how is that impossible? The lions roar is the most powerful of the carnivorous animals, if a lion roared at a unexpected animal, I would think it would make a bolt in any direction more so in a act of confusion which could lead them to the lions direction.

    The roar is so powerful it can be heard 5 miles out, I would think if the lion is in leaping distance and he roared the prey would only have two places to go, to jump in the water or go directly in the path of the lion... it seems as if you are portraying it as the lion will roar from miles out, then the animal will calmly look around, spot the lion a mile away....then run straight at him...lol
    A hunter is not going to announce its presence to its prey. That's the daftest strategy a hunter could possibly use, you do not want to hunt something that is already running if you can hunt something that is standing still.

    A prey animal could of course run across the bank of the water as opposed to running in the direction the roar is coming from, even if it were close it wouldn't be a choice between running into the water or at the lion.

    Lions use their roar to announce exactly where they are, it is a territorial display against other lions or as a means of communicating with its pride if they're not close by, they don't use it for hunting. It a)would nullify all their stealth tactics which is how a lion would actually hunt. b) Be very energetically expensive and when hunting you want to use as little energy as possible.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    A hunter is not going to announce its presence to its prey. That's the daftest strategy a hunter could possibly use, you do not want to hunt something that is already running if you can hunt something that is standing still.

    A prey animal could of course run across the bank of the water as opposed to running in the direction the roar is coming from, even if it were close it wouldn't be a choice between running into the water or at the lion.

    Lions use their roar to announce exactly where they are, it is a territorial display against other lions or as a means of communicating with its pride if they're not close by, they don't use it for hunting. It a)would nullify all their stealth tactics which is how a lion would actually hunt. b) Be very energetically expensive and when hunting you want to use as little energy as possible.
    Falkendorf:

    Prince, sprang with a roar from his pedastal straight at Mogul.

    Bert nelson:

    while Jug head and the rest of his gang roarded down into the fray

    Louis roth:

    Nine times out of ten a lion will roar a warning before it attacks you"

    Charly barnumm

    A tiger will hit on the break, gouge thumb. He would attack a sleeping man. A lion will at least roar first."

    http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru...TID=17524&PN=5


    Ummmm, I think its accepted in every walk of science, from biologist to even animal trainers, that lions roar before they attack...you cannot refute something thats almost universal...of course you dont know this, you never worked with lions...have you? So all the things you are stateing are just out of thin air. Who stated they are announcing it from afar? This could be in terms of leaping distance, the abstract gave no range of distance, you are only assuming then insinuating that it is to discredit it.

    How an why would they just bolt across a croc infested water hole or a raging river, when they dont even know what the sound is in a 5 second time frame, all they'll know in that amount of time is panic an run in a random direction.

    1.) A lions roar is not direct, its omni-directional, so the prey is not going to know pin point exactly where the roar is coming from if its already that close, especially in such a small time frame of a few seconds of a leaping distance scare tactics they might once in a while use.

    2.) Again, the lions roar is the most powerful up to 114 decibels, a human sneaking up on someone screaming is enough to startle someone, a lion who has a sound wave thats almost 10x louder than a humans will most likely scare you stiff if you werent ready for it.

    This guy talking isnt your average person, Mel Sunquist is one of the highest noted biologist of tigers:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4KFAjDPB8

    Although the roar its self most likely doesnt have any paralyzing effect, it still high-lights their once in a while things they do as the first source I noted stated, that the animal will be so startled, that they might go running in the wrong directions.
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    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    Falkendorf:

    Prince, sprang with a roar from his pedastal straight at Mogul.

    Bert nelson:

    while Jug head and the rest of his gang roarded down into the fray

    Louis roth:

    Nine times out of ten a lion will roar a warning before it attacks you"

    Charly barnumm

    A tiger will hit on the break, gouge thumb. He would attack a sleeping man. A lion will at least roar first."

    http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru...TID=17524&PN=5


    Ummmm, I think its accepted in every walk of science, from biologist to even animal trainers, that lions roar before they attack...you cannot refute something thats almost universal...of course you dont know this, you never worked with lions...have you? So all the things you are stateing are just out of thin air. Who stated they are announcing it from afar? This could be in terms of leaping distance, the abstract gave no range of distance, you are only assuming then insinuating that it is to discredit it.

    How an why would they just bolt across a croc infested water hole or a raging river, when they dont even know what the sound is in a 5 second time frame, all they'll know in that amount of time is panic an run in a random direction.

    1.) A lions roar is not direct, its omni-directional, so the prey is not going to know pin point exactly where the roar is coming from if its already that close, especially in such a small time frame of a few seconds of a leaping distance scare tactics they might once in a while use.

    2.) Again, the lions roar is the most powerful up to 114 decibels, a human sneaking up on someone screaming is enough to startle someone, a lion who has a sound wave thats almost 10x louder than a humans will most likely scare you stiff if you werent ready for it.

    This guy talking isnt your average person, Mel Sunquist is one of the highest noted biologist of tigers:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4KFAjDPB8

    Although the roar its self most likely doesnt have any paralyzing effect, it still high-lights their once in a while things they do as the first source I noted stated, that the animal will be so startled, that they might go running in the wrong directions.
    Well for starters I actually have worked with Lions in their natural environment, i have a degree in Zoology and a Masters in Taxonomy and Biodiversity, I have also worked with big cats in Zoos, and they never roared before attacking their prey, especially when they were sneaking up on something. They might roar when attacking another lion or a person because they want it too leave more than they want to eat it, their prey they will take down quietly. Do you not get that I addressed that I wasn't saying they would roar from afar, if they are hunting prey they are unlikely to roar at all, it is very energy intensive, and would cost crucial seconds in a hunt. Also your quotes are describing fights not hunts, which are nowhere near the same thing.

    You are officially talking nonsense. A lions roar being omni-directional means it spreads in all directions, the creature hearing it will know where its coming from, that is literally their chief purpose to advertise the lions current location as it is used for territorial displays and communicate with the pride.

    I never said they'd bolt across the water i said they may run along the bank to avoid the lion and simply meant there will not be just two directions they could possibly run in.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    Well for starters I actually have worked with Lions in their natural environment, i have a degree in Zoology and a Masters in Taxonomy and Biodiversity, I have also worked with big cats in Zoos, and they never roared before attacking their prey, especially when they were sneaking up on something. They might roar when attacking another lion or a person because they want it too leave more than they want to eat it, their prey they will take down quietly. Do you not get that I addressed that I wasn't saying they would roar from afar, if they are hunting prey they are unlikely to roar at all, it is very energy intensive, and would cost crucial seconds in a hunt. Also your quotes are describing fights not hunts, which are nowhere near the same thing.

    You are officially talking nonsense. A lions roar being omni-directional means it spreads in all directions, the creature hearing it will know where its coming from, that is literally their chief purpose to advertise the lions current location as it is used for territorial displays and communicate with the pride.

    I never said they'd bolt across the water i said they may run along the bank to avoid the lion and simply meant there will not be just two directions they could possibly run in.
    At where might I ask? What location in africa an what zoos, an where did you get your degree...

    Yes all directions, thats the definition of omin-directional...an exactly why I stated it, so if you are standing behind the lion when it roars you arnt going to hear it? Whos sounds like their talking nonsense.

    A prey animal could of course run across the bank of the water
    Try to be aware of what you write an not contradict your self. Across the river an aside the river is two different things. The same with your other claims, try to stick to what you said instead of changing them.

    You stated the source was outdated, I cited lead biologist, sunquest, which is pretty much present information. So exactly what are you arguing, thats its out dated or that its impossible? Just because a guide, or tour group, a scientist, a biologist, a zoologist hasnt seen a certain technique done first hand, doesn't mean others havent. Energy ensensitive? Theres literally a thousands possibility's an scenarios here, the animal could be a yearling, could be injured, could be stuck, the lion could get lucky, the prey isnt 100% of the time going to run in the correct direction...all which doesnt in no way support your claim that the lion would never roar in history while attacking its prey. Plus the lion isnt a stamina pacing animal, so conserving energy is border line retarded, they are explosive hunters, they give all their energy in one explosive manner, an if its in leaping distance I dought a roar would take out 90% of all there energy an hinder their hunting capability's.

    Fact - The lions roar is omni-directional
    Fact - The animal will be startled if the lion chose to roar unbeknownst

    Your opinion - that the animal will run in the counter direction of the lions roar.

    JUST AN OPINION

    Everything you have stated has been proven wrong, from afar? No, I think you were insinuating that...and now running to the banks? lol These are mere seconds we are talking about, the lion will already be at full speed, the prey will be in a panic in the first 5 seconds, just because one attempt wouldnt work out, doesnt mean through out all time it will never work out. Just because theres no videos, of a elephant killing another animal, doesnt mean in all of history a elephant hasnt stomped another animal to death. Hence this could be a rare seen event, which is mentioned by all walks of science, not some random youtubers claim. You do not hold more hours and knowledge than Sunquist or Craig packer who has studied them their entire lives. A kid at a petting zoo can have the same credentials as you, in terms of how much statements you already flip floped on.

    Still would like to see your credentials, by the way.
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    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    At where might I ask? What location in africa an what zoos, an where did you get your degree...

    Yes all directions, thats the definition of omin-directional...an exactly why I stated it, so if you are standing behind the lion when it roars you arnt going to hear it? Whos sounds like their talking nonsense.



    Try to be aware of what you write an not contradict your self. Across the river an aside the river is two different things. The same with your other claims, try to stick to what you said instead of changing them.

    You stated the source was outdated, I cited lead biologist, sunquest, which is pretty much present information. So exactly what are you arguing, thats its out dated or that its impossible? Just because a guide, or tour group, a scientist, a biologist, a zoologist hasnt seen a certain technique done first hand, doesn't mean others havent. Energy ensensitive? Theres literally a thousands possibility's an scenarios here, the animal could be a yearling, could be injured, could be stuck, the lion could get lucky, the prey isnt 100% of the time going to run in the correct direction...all which doesnt in no way support your claim that the lion would never roar in history while attacking its prey. Plus the lion isnt a stamina pacing animal, so conserving energy is border line retarded, they are explosive hunters, they give all their energy in one explosive manner, an if its in leaping distance I dought a roar would take out 90% of all there energy an hinder their hunting capability's.

    Fact - The lions roar is omni-directional
    Fact - The animal will be startled if the lion chose to roar unbeknownst

    Your opinion - that the animal will run in the counter direction of the lions roar.

    JUST AN OPINION

    Everything you have stated has been proven wrong, from afar? No, I think you were insinuating that...and now running to the banks? lol These are mere seconds we are talking about, just because one attempt wouldnt work out, doesnt mean through out all time it will never work out. Just because theres no videos, of a elephant killing another animal, doesnt mean in all of history a elephant hasnt stomped another animal to death. Hence this could be a rare seen event, which is mentioned by all walks of science, not some random youtubers claim. You do not hold more hours and knowledge than Sunquist or Craig packer who has studied them their entire lives. A kid at a petting zoo can have the same credentials as you, in terms of how much statements you already flip floped on.

    Still would like to see your credentials, by the way.
    Have you ever seen a lion, in the wild btw sword of justice? Or are you arguing simply on what you 'believe?' I'm sorry i have to second the other poster. You are speaking PURE nonsense!
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Have you ever seen a lion, in the wild btw sword of justice? Or are you arguing simply on what you 'believe?' I'm sorry i have to second the other poster. You are speaking PURE nonsense!
    No, but I cite the experts, if you have a problem with it, you should go take it up with them.

    In that case, the prey will run across the river...oh wait...I ment along the river side. lol I dont have to be an expert to see when someones opinions is contradicting to what noted experts state.
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    I admire your passion for lions
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    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    At where might I ask? What location in africa an what zoos, an where did you get your degree...

    Yes all directions, thats the definition of omin-directional...an exactly why I stated it, so if you are standing behind the lion when it roars you arnt going to hear it? Whos sounds like their talking nonsense.
    Reserves: Karongwe Game Reserve and Venetia Limpopo Nature Reserve

    Zoo: Rare Species Conservation Centre

    Uni: Imperial College London

    Still you talking nonsense because everything you've stated has implied that the animal hearing the roar won't know where the roar is coming from and will run in a random direction possibly causing it to run into the lion.

    This is not the case, if an animal hears a roar it will endeavour to move away from it and will know where it came from.

    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    Try to be aware of what you write an not contradict your self. Across the river an aside the river is two different things. The same with your other claims, try to stick to what you said instead of changing them.
    How are you this dense? I said run across the BANK of the river, if you run across the bank of the river you are running alongside the river because the bank is the edge of the river.

    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    You stated the source was outdated, I cited lead biologist, sunquest, which is pretty much present information. So exactly what are you arguing, thats its out dated or that its impossible? Just because a guide, or tour group, a scientist, a biologist, a zoologist hasnt seen a certain technique done first hand, doesn't mean others havent. Energy ensensitive? Theres literally a thousands possibility's an scenarios here, the animal could be a yearling, could be injured, could be stuck, the lion could get lucky, the prey isnt 100% of the time going to run in the correct direction...all which doesnt in no way support your claim that the lion would never roar in history while attacking its prey. Plus the lion isnt a stamina pacing animal, so conserving energy is border line retarded, they are explosive hunters, they give all their energy in one explosive manner, an if its in leaping distance I dought a roar would take out 90% of all there energy an hinder their hunting capability's.
    This really demonstrates that you know little about animal behaviour at all and some of the links on the page you posted were to sources from the 1800s. That is what I was referring to by outdated.

    None the scenarios you've just described would be aided by a lion roaring, you wouldn't ever give your prey warning of what you are about to do. They may occassionally be an exceptionally inexperienced lion that roared during a hunt but it would very quickly learn to not do it or die from starvation.

    Now here is the bit that really shows you know nothing about hunting behaviour or animal behaviour in general. Any hunter be it a distance runner or a sprinter will attempt to use the minimum amount of energy possible to catch its prey because most of their hunts will be unsuccessful so they need to have the strength to try again. So of course a Lion will conserve energy because it isn't remarkable for a Lion to go days without food.

    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    Fact - The lions roar is omni-directional
    Fact - The animal will be startled if the lion chose to roar unbeknownst

    Your opinion - that the animal will run in the counter direction of the lions roar.

    JUST AN OPINION
    It is not just an opinion, it is the completely logical outcome based on someone more knowledgable than you, whom are merely quote mining other people when you don't understand the subject matter.

    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    Everything you have stated has been proven wrong, from afar? No, I think you were insinuating that...and now running to the banks? lol These are mere seconds we are talking about, just because one attempt wouldnt work out, doesnt mean through out all time it will never work out. Just because theres no videos, of a elephant killing another animal, doesnt mean in all of history a elephant hasnt stomped another animal to death. Hence this could be a rare seen event, which is mentioned by all walks of science, not some random youtubers claim. You do not hold more hours and knowledge than Sunquist or Craig packer who has studied them their entire lives. A kid at a petting zoo can have the same credentials as you, in terms of how much statements you already flip floped on.

    Still would like to see your credentials, by the way.
    Nothing I have said has been proven wrong.

    "Mere seconds" do you not understand the whole purpose of the fight or flight response is an animal can make a decision to ensure its survival in a fraction of a second. "Mere seconds" in a hunt is an enormous amount of time and is the difference between life and death several times over.

    Animals don't have the luxury of wasting energy on inefficent strategies because they don't know if or when their next meal will come, so they take the option that is the most efficient.

    There are plenty of videos of elephants killing things by the way, they're one of the "Big Five" for a reason.

    Indeed I do not have the most amount of "hours" (a thoroughly meaningless measure in academia) on studying Lions but you just quote mining them without having any real understanding of the field doesn't help you case.
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    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    No, but I cite the experts, if you have a problem with it, you should go take it up with them.

    In that case, the prey will run across the river...oh wait...I ment along the river side. lol I dont have to be an expert to see when someones opinions is contradicting to what noted experts state.
    i fail to see who someone who has worked with lions, and done a zoology degree, is not an expert?
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    (Original post by john2054)
    i fail to see who someone who has worked with lions, and done a zoology degree, is not an expert?
    Thank you for your support. I wouldn't claim to be an expert, just educated on the subject matter.

    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    No, but I cite the experts, if you have a problem with it, you should go take it up with them.

    In that case, the prey will run across the river...oh wait...I ment along the river side. lol I dont have to be an expert to see when someones opinions is contradicting to what noted experts state.
    Just citing the experts without understanding the field doesn't help you. You're like when people try and quote Darwin to disprove Evolution, you invariably demonstrate that you don't understand the topic.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    Reserves: Karongwe Game Reserve and Venetia Limpopo Nature Reserve

    Zoo: Rare Species Conservation Centre

    Uni: Imperial College London
    Ha ha, you're gona have to a little better than that, I can quote in a random place, an cite that I studied there too, how about some tangible evidence, some photos with you in it. Practically every expert on youtube, or news sites or other academia sources show the person in them, not as if they're gona shy away from their occupation just because some one disagrees with them, or in your case proves you wrong.

    Still you talking nonsense because everything you've stated has implied that the animal hearing the roar won't know where the roar is coming from and will run in a random direction possibly causing it to run into the lion.

    This is not the case, if an animal hears a roar it will endeavour to move away from it and will know where it came from.
    High-light in bold...exactly what is nonsense of my refutes, because now you're sounding more trollish than you are educative...yes, because its omni-directional at close range...if its farther away than they could tell if its north/south/east/west...but not mere feet away, lets dissect the quote you obviously was talking about.

    The Lion's Roar In The Forest And How He Gets His Supper Another thing in which the lion is like the cat is that it cannot run fast for a long distance.
    So professor know it all, is that false? The answer is no. Hence why would it need to conserve energy, if its going to hunt using an explosive tactics?

    It can spring a long way, and it can bound along at a great rate for a short time; but, just as a dog can race a cat, so a deer can easily race a lion. So the lion has to be very cunning to catch swift animals for its supper.
    Is that false? No, during the spring, why wouldnt it roar sometimes

    Heres where you are falling to peices on, this isnt any random chase, its at a water hole at a certain time:

    When the lion goes out to a pool to drink at....night.....he knows that other animals will be coming to the same spot. So he puts his great mouth to the ground and roars. There is no other sound in the animal world like the roar of a lion. It is so loud, so deep and so powerful, that it terrifies all the animals which hear it. It seems to send them wild with terror. The lion knows this, and he keeps on roaring. The result is that the animals which hear it forget everything in their terror; they rush madly to and fro, and one of them generally dashes straight into the mouth of the lion. That is one of his ways of catching a supper.
    OHHHHHHHH, so yet again you do not pay attention to things you post on or of, it states specifically at a pool, via water hole at night, so give me a break with your mere seconds to fraction, even crocs catch prey in fractions of a second in day time an they dont need to roar as an added element to disorient the animal. And lol, it states that....the animals...So what you are saying is, a herd of 100's of animals will all take to flight in the exact same direction away from a omni-directional sound in the dark? Ha ha ha



    How are you this dense? I said run across the BANK of the river, if you run across the bank of the river you are running alongside the river because the bank is the edge of the river.
    Ha ha ha, when someone says they are going across the river, the objective is be on the other side, not on the same side you started off on: Definition of across:

    from one side to the other of (something)
    https://www.google.com/#q=definition+of+across

    Please keep humiliating yourself, so a college grad doesnt even know what the word across is, yet has a thousand plus hours with lions at a university? I dought it..



    This really demonstrates that you know little about animal behaviour at all and some of the links on the page you posted were to sources from the 1800s. That is what I was referring to by outdated.

    I know more than you do obviously, 1800's has nothing to do with credibility, so because you are born now, does that mean you can rewrite issac newtons law? Or rein-invent the wheel, even though the wheel was pretty much the same for thousands of years. Go an re-wrie them then, an say, its alot older, hence its not factual. lol


    None the scenarios you've just described would be aided by a lion roaring, you wouldn't ever give your prey warning of what you are about to do. They may occassionally be an exceptionally inexperienced lion that roared during a hunt but it would very quickly learn to not do it or die from starvation.

    Okay, we get it already, a lion has never in history or never will roar at a prey ever, because you say so. Thats your only argument, so let it go, because your flip flopping is getting ridiculous. Can you make up your mind...first you say a lion will never use this tactics, then you say, well maybe a an inexperienced lion could....could you stick to what you state and not flip flop.


    Now here is the bit that really shows you know nothing about hunting behaviour or animal behaviour in general. Any hunter be it a distance runner or a sprinter will attempt to use the minimum amount of energy possible to catch its prey because most of their hunts will be unsuccessful so they need to have the strength to try again. So of course a Lion will conserve energy because it isn't remarkable for a Lion to go days without food.
    Again, retarded...cheetahs dont pace them selves, they explode with every amount of energy they have, to catch something which in return wouldnt be able to keep up the speed for long. And remarkable? Lions hunt in groups, so their chances are higher than others, even more so in keeping their kills, leopards, hyenas, and even tigers get their food stolen by wild dogs and hyena, the group allows for an establishment that can take and keep their kills.

    It is not just an opinion, it is the completely logical outcome based on someone more knowledgable than you, whom are merely quote mining other people when you don't understand the subject matter.

    Nothing I have said has been proven wrong.


    Ummm, alot of things have been proven wrong:

    - Across means to get to the other side
    - First you say a lion can...never roar while attacking, then you say maybe an inexperienced one might
    - The lion will roar from only afar
    - Roars is not omni-directional, yet if you stand on the left, right or behind the lion, you can still hear it

    Proven wrong

    "Mere seconds" do you not understand the whole purpose of the fight or flight response is an animal can make a decision to ensure its survival in a fraction of a second. "Mere seconds" in a hunt is an enormous amount of time and is the difference between life and death several times over.
    No its not, if the lion is already at full speed, and the prey is only reacting to him at several feet away, hes pretty much caught, regardless if the lion roars to confuse the animal or not....especially when the prey has to get pass 100s of others of his kind in his way.


    Animals don't have the luxury of wasting energy on inefficent strategies because they don't know if or when their next meal will come, so they take the option that is the most efficient.

    There are plenty of videos of elephants killing things by the way, they're one of the "Big Five" for a reason.
    In that case....show me a video of:

    A elephant killing a crocodile
    A elephant killing a hyena
    A elephant killing a lion
    A elephant killing a mouse

    You are the one making these claims up like what ever you say is provable, an what ever the scientist say is not, how about you show it. Or are you again going to flip flop again?

    Indeed I do not have the most amount of "hours" (a thoroughly meaningless measure in academia) on studying Lions but you just quote mining them without having any real understanding of the field doesn't help you case.
    Everything you said has been proven wrong, and you know more than me? lol I studied the books of kailash sankhala, craig packer, mel and fiona sunquist, valmik thapar, Profesor chavda, singh hari shanka, Professor Joubert , and many other leading lions and tiger authorities, your credentials is no greater than a kid at a petting zoo who can rant about the same things. Incorrect, flawed opined based, illogical, and retarded...an discredit darwin? Ive quoted him many times an support his views, and we live in the era of video, so what ever a fields men can see, I can see too, as Ive studied over 20 different pride documentations....no one man has seen more info than there is on video now.

    And hours determines nothing? What world are you living in, a ranger with only 5 hours of wild watch is not going to have as collective knowledge compared to someone who has 50 years worth. What makes you even think I believe you went to a academia about lions at all? You didnt show anything, you just put up random text which any one can do.

    Edit:

    And understand the topic... What topic? This thread is called how strong a lion is, so obviously you dont understand the topic...these aren't all from one source, as they are from a hundred different sources, and puh-leeze, you do not know more than all the people I cited, not even a fraction. Your name is unknown in the academic world of science compared to them. In fact...show us the needed basic credentials you attended there, or other wise your 100% BS.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    i fail to see who someone who has worked with lions, and done a zoology degree, is not an expert?
    Expert? lol

    All the people Ive citd combined is around 200 years of consistency, how about this so called expert show us he has even 200 hours of being around them. How about a video or photo of him working with lions in the wilds since you're so gullible to believe in a random text from a random nobody over science published journals...

    And an expert doesnt have to hail from a kaka mi mi zoological school, african natives have been citing the same thing for many hundreds of years, just because one has a piece of paper from london, doesnt mean he knows more than 100s of real experts who lived with them all their lives.

    Its quite astounding really, who would have thought, to debunk, refute or dispute that entire thread, all he would have to say is, hey....lions dont roar at their prey. lol
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    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    Ha ha, you're gona have to a little better than that, I can quote in a random place, an cite that I studied there too, how about some tangible evidence, some photos with you in it. Practically every expert on youtube, or news sites or other academia sources show the person in them, not as if they're gona shy away from their occupation just because some one disagrees with them, or in your case proves you wrong.

    Highlight in bold...exactly what is nonsense of my refutes, because now you're sounding more trollish than you are educative...lets diseect the quote you obviously was talking about.

    So professor no it all, is that false? The answer is no.

    Is that false? No

    Heres where you are falling to peices on, this isnt any random chase, its at a water hole:

    OHHHHHHHH, so yet again you do not pay attention to things you post on or of, it states specifically at a pool, via water hole, so give me a break with your mere seconds to fraction, even crocs catch prey in fractions of a second an they dont need to roar as an added disorient the animal. And lol, it states that....the animals...So what you are saying is, a herd of 100's of animals will all take to flight in the exact same direction away from a omni-directional sound in the dark? ha ha ha

    Please keep humiliating yourself, so a college grad doesnt even know what the word across is, yet has a thousand plus hours with lions at a university? I dought it..

    I know more than you do obviously, 1800's has nothing to do with credibility, so because you are born now, does that mean you can rewrite issac newtons law? Or rein-invent the wheel, even though the wheel was pretty much the same for thousands of years? You are too good. lol

    Okay, we get it already, a lion has never in history or never will roar at a prey ever, because you say so. Thats your only argument, so let it go, because your flip flopping is getting ridiculous.

    Everything you said has been proven wrong, and you know more than me? lol I studied the books of kailash sankhala, craig packer, mel and fiona sunquist, val mik thapar, Profesor chavda, singh hari shanaka, Professor Joubert , and many other leading lions and tiger authorties, your credentials is no greater than a kid at a petting zoo who can rant about the same things. Incorrect, flawed opined based, illogical, and retarded...an discredit darwin? Ive quoted him many times an support his views, and we live in the era of video, so what ever you can see, I can see too, as Ive studied over 20 different pride documentations....no one man has seen more info than there is on video now.
    I am washing my hands of you because you are either a troll or an idiot but there is one thing I thought I really should address because this is what makes me think you're a troll.

    (Original post by Sword of Justice)
    Ha ha ha, when someone says they are going to across the river, the objective is be on the other side, not on the same side you started off on: Definition of across:

    from one side to the other of (something)
    https://www.google.com/#q=definition+of+across
    Now I never said the "across the river", I said "across the bank of the water", if you had a basic understanding of grammar and a dictionary you'd know the bank is the edge of the water. If you run across it, you're running along the edge of the water.

    To summarise you have no understanding of animal behaviour on any level, a fleeting understanding of grammar, you deliberately misinterpret what I say, know nothing of the scientific process as evidenced by using anecdotal evidence at best, you think name dropping people more informed than you helps your argument and fail to present any actual counter arguments that make any form of coherent or logical sense. I am done wasting my time correcting you, if you'd like to learn even the basics of animal behaviour, there are plenty of courses you could take.
 
 
 
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