In the article the woman who has actually implemented this has said that she herself takes time off because of severe period pains but she makes up the work later. If the other women who take advantage of this kind of thing are as happy at the company as they seem to be, I'm sure they'll be making up for their time off too. In my experience, women tend to feel guilty about having to have time off and so work hard to make up for it (either by doing some work while at home or staying late at the office).(Original post by Rakas21)
Being nice is not terribly profitable and nor does it satisfy my self interest. I can't say that sympathy would be enough for me to roll over if my manager wanted to introduce this, not unless i was going to get a pay rise to reflect the fact that i would'nt be taking such days off.
That somewhat misses the point. Women at this firm want days off.. fine. I'm asserting that a system for these women to take days off already exists and that it's not the responsibility of the firm to only allow them time off when they feel happy.
All in all at worst this is an example of modern day feminism discriminating against males while at best this is an extremely soft and somewhat naive policy which should certainly not be replicated elsewhere in its current described form.
If more people could treat other people with humanity we might actually find ourselves with a more productive workforce. People who are treated like human beings and feel like they and their individual needs are being listened to are much more likely to work hard for a company than if they are being treated like robots. You might be surprised at how much 'being nice' might help your own interests.
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- 02-03-2016 11:44
"certain parts of Asia"(Original post by Fickschlitten)
Real example that Third Wave Feminism is an utter joke and needs to be annihilated.
Asia, the continent that definitely went though two strong waves of feminism already
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- 02-03-2016 13:13
I think this would only decrease women's chances of employment if adopted more widely. If I am an employer and I have to choose between two equally good candidates for a job, one of whom has to have time off that I can't predict every month, and one of whom doesn't, which one am I going to employ?
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- 02-03-2016 13:22
Let the guys have a '****' day off
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- 02-03-2016 13:26
Some women have periods so painful they can scarcely move. Should those women be penalised for something that isn't their fault or something they have control over?(Original post by G8D)
Fine but women should't be paid for it. Also it would have to be accepted that should a woman volunteer to use the system no-one can suggest they are discriminated against when they don't go as far as men in the same industry who don't take 4 - 7 days off per month.
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- 02-03-2016 13:47
Yes but this is for women who are in pain. I don't think they are suggesting that you should take the entire week off just for the heck of it. It is targeted at women experiencing severe pain brought on by their periods. If you're not in pain, you go to work as normal.(Original post by caravaggio2)
Not if it's genuine, but it would be a sickie for the plenty of women that have light periods or who cope perfectly well. That's my point, it would be open to abuse.
How would you police it? How would you even know that somebody is in so much pain that they had to stay off? Lots of women cope perfectly well and you are assuming that they wouldnt take advantage. Just like men, plenty of them would and the larger the organization the more so. How do they police it?
Pain is subjective. If someone says they're in severe pain, were inclined to believe them because we don't know how they're feeling. I'd police it by giving women a set amount of time that they can take off, so like 12 days a year that can only be used once a month. If you are to take off more than one day during a month, you don't get paid. (Unless you have an underlying condition directly relating to your menstrual cycle and you provide a doctors note) I think that's as fair as can be. -
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- 02-03-2016 13:55
Quoted in the hope that people actually see it.(Original post by PQ)
It's not even time off that this company is talking about - it's flexible working and having a policy that states up front that using flexitime to work around period pains is acceptable.
The number of people leaping to take offence at this without taking 5 minutes to look at what they're offended by is ridiculous. -
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- 02-03-2016 14:42
The article suggests the policy is about allowing women time off during their period when it is unreasonable to expect them to work. Not just being off every month simply because they are on their period.(Original post by LVRG)
A sick week every month... paid? Surely not. I'm for it but it can't be paid.
If I had a condition that recurred each month and potentially caused too much pain for me to be expected to work, I would go to the doctor and seek to have my employer recognise this. I'd expect to this to be taken into account when looking at my attendance.
Some women have this, yet no doctor is going to help them get this recognised by their employer. Of course for many women this is not problem, which makes it harder for some people to understand how it could cause women to be off work.
Is it open to abuse? Of course, just like many things in the working world and in life are. -
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- 02-03-2016 14:49
And thus the prophesy has been fulfilled.(Original post by Fickschlitten)
Real example that Third Wave Feminism is an utter joke and needs to be annihilated.
There's always one. -
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Blame the patriarchy. -
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Look you've already won once with a line, at least give other people a change to get a full house in this round of Feminism Bingo.(Original post by Fickschlitten)
Blame the patriarchy. -
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- 02-03-2016 14:53
My soggy knees.(Original post by offhegoes)
Look you've already won once with a line, at least give other people a change to get a full house in this round of Feminism Bingo. -
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- 02-03-2016 14:56
That one isn't there I'm afraid.(Original post by Fickschlitten)
My soggy knees.
You could have gone on a long lecture about equality of outcome and equality of opportunity, completely unprompted yet leaving you with the sensation of a good point well made. Or you could have gone on Twitter to send a vile threat or three. -
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- 02-03-2016 15:02
Equality.(Original post by offhegoes)
That one isn't there I'm afraid.
You could have gone on a long lecture about equality of outcome and equality of opportunity, completely unprompted yet leaving you with the sensation of a good point well made. Or you could have gone on Twitter to send a vile threat or three. -
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- 02-03-2016 15:34
No one doubts that some women's periods are severe enough to warrant not going to work on the bad days it's the way the legislation is written, and proof of pain IF it is for all women to go to the doctors.(Original post by emilyjc17)
My periods are often bloody terrible (happy accident) and sometimes I can't even get out of bed nevermind to lectures. The first two days of a period are the worst and I'd feel a lot better about starting work somewhere where they'd be OK with this and understanding. I think it's a good idea for women like me. I don't think the policy would be abused, it could be verified that you do suffer with quite a lot of pain with a doctors note or something like that.
For the record, I see a lot of really silly 'feminist' campaigns that don't spark my interest what-so-ever but I really don't think this is one of them. I do think this is something worth looking into and considering, - there's a whole lot of working women out there that would benefit immensely from this policy. I mean, we sortof ignore periods as a society like they don't really happen, but they do.Some of us suffer immensely and if guys knew what it was truly like, I'm sure they'd be a lot more empathizing! And it would be good if there were provisions for that in the working world, which we need really, being that the western world we live in now is a much more equal and opportunistic one for women than it ever was before. Surely that's a positive thing.
It's well known that someone who doesn't have painful periods this decade may have very painful ones next decade.
The issue is under a doctors note women will start going to the doctors saying my periods are really bad these days can I have a note when they aren't bad. Why? Because they can have a number of extra weeks off paid per year durr!
Or you can have a system where the woman is allotted say 26 period days per year (2 every 4 weeks) that they can have as extra paid leave. This is just grossly unfair to everyone who doesn't have a period and rewards people for having a ovaries.
Lastly you can have the sensible option.
Change legislation to say sure have days off for period pains but they will be unpaid and not counted towards your overall sick days in a year for review purposes by law.
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- 02-03-2016 15:39
You don't need to experience a period to be able to discuss or write legislation for them. What a stupid comment.(Original post by mscaffrey)
Well, on this thread what is actually being spoken about is a company that has introduced menstrual leave (not legislation as you say in a post above). It's a relatively small company and I imagine the people working there are happy (you're more likely to be happy if your boss trusts you and understands that sometimes you'll have days where it's simply not good for you to be at work, either for yourself or for the company). Therefore, in this case, I'm guessing the boss isn't asking for proof. It is difficult to provide proof of pain, whether we're talking about periods or something else - there has to be a level of trust between an employer and their employee. As someone has already mentioned in this thread, if it seems that a system is being abused then it's a disciplinary matter. If someone was regularly taking a full 7 days off a month I doubt that would be tolerated, and medical evidence (in the form of consultation with a GP) would definitely be sought.
A few people who have periods have commented on this thread, saying that their worst day of pain is usually just the one day (or maybe two). An employer who started this kind of policy would know that one or two days of serious pain or heavy bleeding is the average and would probably keep a closer eye on people taking more days off than they think is necessary. Some people do have pain or heavy bleeding for a longer period of time, but often they have a diagnosed (or diagnosable) condition, which I imagine will be dealt with in the same way as any other chronic illness is dealt with at work.
For someone who has, I assume, never experienced a period you seem to have a lot of very strong opinions about this.
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- 02-03-2016 15:42
That's exactly what I said before, literally the only sensible option.(Original post by paul514)
Lastly you can have the sensible option.
Change legislation to say sure have days off for period pains but they will be unpaid and not counted towards your overall sick days in a year for review purposes by law.
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- 02-03-2016 15:45
My colleague suffered spinal injuries years ago. Every few months or so pain between discs in his back flares up and he is unable to work for a few days.(Original post by paul514)
No one doubts that some women's periods are severe enough to warrant not going to work on the bad days it's the way the legislation is written, and proof of pain IF it is for all women to go to the doctors.
It's well known that someone who doesn't have painful periods this decade may have very painful ones next decade.
The issue is under a doctors note women will start going to the doctors saying my periods are really bad these days can I have a note when they aren't bad. Why? Because they can have a number of extra weeks off paid per year durr!
Or you can have a system where the woman is allotted say 26 period days per year (2 every 4 weeks) that they can have as extra paid leave. This is just grossly unfair to everyone who doesn't have a period and rewards people for having a ovaries.
Lastly you can have the sensible option.
Change legislation to say sure have days off for period pains but they will be unpaid and not counted towards your overall sick days in a year for review purposes by law.
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Shouldn't he be paid less too? I'm frankly furious that's whilst I'm at work he's getting paid for lying in bed at home watching daytime TV in some degree of agony.
Also I think some people at my work have described the symptoms of depression and/or stress to their doctors to get a line for time off work. This loophole surely needs to be closed too, right? -
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- 02-03-2016 15:54
Last period I had I took two 30/500 cocodamol, the ones I now take for the pain for my fibromyalgia and my mum takes for her arthritis, and my dad for sciatica, and then I threw them up because I was in too much pain.(Original post by x-pixie-x)
Take a stronger painkiller ffs.
But you can't just take more, because they had started to be absorbed and if I'd gotten liver issues from too much paracetamol then I'd have had even more time off.
Then I nearly passed out into the toilet, and my dad had to pretty much lift me into the car to get me home and then put me to bed.
So unless you're suggesting some women (and it will be women in my situation who this would apply to) get some IV painkillers and shoot them up at their desks before going back to work, I don't think you thought this through at all. -
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- 02-03-2016 16:03
Why should I take a pay cut for my biology? It's not like I can just say "don't fancy having a period this month, I think I'll skip it." Nor can I just take stronger medication without risking overdose.(Original post by Lime-man)
That's exactly what I said before, literally the only sensible option.
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