Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    I'm not sure that there is such a thing as independence!

    --> Do you think there's such a thing as independence? What are your thoughts/views on the subject?

    I think that we are all interdependent and have varying decrees and financial, experiential, and social liberty. For me, personal freedom is not reliant on these liberties but is more about being in dialogue with one's deepest feelings and thoughts. Freedom is really personal growth! This doesn't mean that I don't value social liberties - I just don't think they are essential to being free. This view makes personal independence seem less important than Western society seems to make out.

    I suspect that independence has become an aspirational value in our society partly for market reasons: if you encourage two people to be independent of each other then they might require two houses, rathe than one, and two of everything else material that is necessary for everyday life. That's twice the production and sales potential!

    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    not being coercively controlled by other actors
    I might be simply persuaded to do things by others which might make me look controlled, but that's not to say I'm not independent seeing as I have the freedom of choice to either accept that source of persuasion or not
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Des_Lumières)
    I'm not sure that there is such a thing as independence!

    --> Do you think there's such a thing as independence? What are your thoughts/views on the subject?

    I think that we are all interdependent and have varying decrees and financial, experiential, and social liberty. For me, personal freedom is not reliant on these liberties but is more about being in dialogue with one's deepest feelings and thoughts. Freedom is really personal growth! This doesn't mean that I don't value social liberties - I just don't think they are essential to being free. This view makes personal independence seem less important than Western society seems to make out.

    I suspect that independence has become an aspirational value in our society partly for market reasons: if you encourage two people to be independent of each other then they might require two houses, rathe than one, and two of everything else material that is necessary for everyday life. That's twice the production and sales potential!

    Independence is one of those words that can be applied to plethora of different things. Personal, social, economic, psychological, intellectual, academic etc.

    When I think of humanity and I propose to associate independence with that idea, I find it lacking slightly.

    As humans, we are social creatures, we are not capable of functioning well without the interaction of others. We can have, as you say, our own 'free will' and personal independent opinion, but there is debate amongst many as to how much of our thoughts are our own.

    I digress, independence is something I believe can be applied in varying degrees to different aspects of human natures, but I do not believe that we, as people, are capable of true independence, it does not seem to be in our nature as social creatures.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    “Freedom (n.): To ask nothing. To expect nothing. To depend on nothing.” -Ayn Rand
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    The ability to drive or go anywhere. To have a job and money

    Thats what independence is to me
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    to do what one pleases, and to live by one's own rules/goals.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Des_Lumières)
    I'm not sure that there is such a thing as independence!

    --> Do you think there's such a thing as independence? What are your thoughts/views on the subject?

    I think that we are all interdependent and have varying decrees and financial, experiential, and social liberty. For me, personal freedom is not reliant on these liberties but is more about being in dialogue with one's deepest feelings and thoughts. Freedom is really personal growth! This doesn't mean that I don't value social liberties - I just don't think they are essential to being free. This view makes personal independence seem less important than Western society seems to make out.

    I suspect that independence has become an aspirational value in our society partly for market reasons: if you encourage two people to be independent of each other then they might require two houses, rathe than one, and two of everything else material that is necessary for everyday life. That's twice the production and sales potential!

    I don't think any liberal would say that personal freedom undermines social connections. Perhaps move to Iran or Saudi, you may prefer that society better.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    To have a good steady income, to be adding to my savings and be living in my own place.
    Even if I weren't in my own place, earning my own income is the bottom line for being independant, everything above that is striding out on my own to achieve my goals.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aceadria)
    “Freedom (n.): To ask nothing. To expect nothing. To depend on nothing.” -Ayn Rand
    Whenever you'd like to join us in the real world, we'll be more than willing to welcome you.


    Individualism has spouted some truly ridiculous fallacies about human development, about the role society plays in peoples lives and about how much you are really responsible for the outcome of your life.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Whenever you'd like to join us in the real world, we'll be more than willing to welcome you.


    Individualism has spouted some truly ridiculous fallacies about human development, about the role society plays in peoples lives and about how much you are really responsible for the outcome of your life.
    You may hate modern values (but possibly detest racism and sexism...lol..wow) but then in past socieites kings and queens could execute people at will. No individualist would say that we have total control over our lives, or we are not shaped by outside or social factors. this is silly on many levels.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Driving my own car, own money, a job, being very social, outgoing and own a house
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by unamujercaliente)
    I don't think any liberal would say that personal freedom undermines social connections. Perhaps move to Iran or Saudi, you may prefer that society better.
    I don't need to move to an oligarchy, thanks very much! Economically speaking, I think it does (at its most extreme). As capitalism becomes more exaggerated, as we cease to round the edges off it, whilst we take in our fill of modern media capitalism appears to be eroding communities, local and beyond, and even in some cases the family.

    I think there is a logical error in proceeding in one's reasoning as if a political and economic organisation that seems to promote materialism, consumption and competition between individuals does not imprint upon society and culture in this image. Just consider falling birth rates!
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Whenever you'd like to join us in the real world, we'll be more than willing to welcome you.
    It's an ideal; something to aspire to.

    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Individualism has spouted some truly ridiculous fallacies about human development, about the role society plays in peoples lives and about how much you are really responsible for the outcome of your life.
    It remains far superior to any alternative.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.