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I'm hopeless at psychometric tests that grad recruiters use... Watch

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    (Original post by chosenone93)
    my point is the assessments they make you do are not relevant half the time.
    There will be a relevance to using them. You and others might not see it, but there is always a reason to use these types of tests. They aren't cheap and they are far less subjective (and therefore less prone to getting it wrong) than other types of assessment criteria.




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    (Original post by chosenone93)
    and if its not investment banks or law? i don't go for any of those jobs yet still run into these logical reasoning assessments.
    Maybe because those jobs also need some level of logical reasoning? Unless your work is process and repetitive, this could be said of the vast majority of jobs.


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    well i'm no good at them but i don't doubt i can do the actual job with good enough trainning , just let me vent please
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    (Original post by chosenone93)
    well i'm no good at them but i don't doubt i can do the actual job with good enough trainning , just let me vent please
    I'm no good at them either, and yet the irony is I design such tests. My issue is in incredibly indecisive when I am not sure about something.

    I don't like them either as someone who takes them, but I know they are one of the better methods of assessment and so why I will choose them as a recruiter.

    As others have mentioned practice is a good way to address it. Also activities that test the same skill is a good idea - there's lots of "brain-training" apps that are free, a lot more fun and help develop the type of skills needed.


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    (Original post by J-SP)
    But relevant to the other half of the job then?


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    Ehm. Many firms are pretty blunt as to why they use these tests. In nearly all circumstances they are in place simply to sieve out applications, as a human would never have time to read all of them.
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    (Original post by ahpadt)
    Ehm. Many firms are pretty blunt as to why they use these tests. In nearly all circumstances they are in place simply to sieve out applications, as a human would never have time to read all of them.
    It's often actually cheaper to get someone to read application forms than it is to pay for these tests. Time can be a factor, but it's not the only reason they are used.

    If it came down to a time only related matter, they'd just have a really short application window.

    Plus psychometric tests are a far less subjective, and far more consistent way of assessing and selecting than looking at data on an application form. People might not like them, but generally they are fairer.


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    (Original post by J-SP)
    It's often actually cheaper to get someone to read application forms than it is to pay for these tests. Time can be a factor, but it's not the only reason they are used.

    If it came down to a time only related matter, they'd just have a really short application window.

    Plus psychometric tests are a far less subjective, and far more consistent way of assessing and selecting than looking at data on an application form. People might not like them, but generally they are fairer.
    *citation needed*

    My source was an individual at the careers centre at the uni I went to.
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    (Original post by ahpadt)
    *citation needed*

    My source was an individual at the careers centre at the uni I went to.
    Their source is years of experience as a recruiter.

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    (Original post by ahpadt)
    *citation needed*

    My source was an individual at the careers centre at the uni I went to.
    What specifically would you like a citation on?

    I work with organisations that purchase and use these tests. I know the costs, risks and benefits of using them. I have a qualification in designing and administering them. I've managed 7 figure graduate recruitment budgets that have been responsible for cost-effective recruitment, and for which in part have utilised some form of psychometric testing.

    If I was asked to run a cheap and quick way of screening candidates out, application screening would be my choice. I'd pay someone else to do it if I didn't have the time myself (huge amounts of graduate recruitment is outsourced). If I did that it would probably still be cheaper than the testing.

    Any recruiter using a test that's completely irrelevant to the job, working environment or needed for career progression, is either wasting money or has a pretty crappy recruitment process. If they did this, they are more likely to be eliminating good talent and hiring bad talent. That's not going to help them or the organisation.

    Why are tests fairer (in my opinion)? Well it is a standardised test sat within a specific time period. It is measuring candidates' performance in the here and now, rather than based on their past and subjective evidence on their CV, that for one candidate they could have had 10 years to collect that evidence, while with another they could have only had 3 years. To me that is fairer.

    They still have their flaws and they are not some kind of utopian assessment tool (if only one of those existed!!), but they are, in my opinion (even though I'm useless at them), better and less risky than other options.

    Your citation of "someone at a careers service" is hardly specific or reliable, but hey, you might say the same about what I've said.


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    (Original post by J-SP)
    What specifically would you like a citation on?

    I work with organisations that purchase and use these tests. I know the costs, risks and benefits of using them. I have a qualification in designing and administering them. I've managed 7 figure graduate recruitment budgets that have been responsible for cost-effective recruitment, and for which in part have utilised some form of psychometric testing.

    If I was asked to run a cheap and quick way of screening candidates out, application screening would be my choice. I'd pay someone else to do it if I didn't have the time myself (huge amounts of graduate recruitment is outsourced). If I did that it would probably still be cheaper than the testing.

    Any recruiter using a test that's completely irrelevant to the job, working environment or needed for career progression, is either wasting money or has a pretty crappy recruitment process. If they did this, they are more likely to be eliminating good talent and hiring bad talent. That's not going to help them or the organisation.

    Why are tests fairer (in my opinion)? Well it is a standardised test sat within a specific time period. It is measuring candidates' performance in the here and now, rather than based on their past and subjective evidence on their CV, that for one candidate they could have had 10 years to collect that evidence, while with another they could have only had 3 years. To me that is fairer.

    They still have their flaws and they are not some kind of utopian assessment tool (if only one of those existed!!), but they are, in my opinion (even though I'm useless at them), better and less risky than other options.

    Your citation of "someone at a careers service" is hardly specific or reliable, but hey, you might say the same about what I've said.


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    fairer except for those with disabilities such as dyslexia or dyspraxia
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    Work on your maths - get a tutor, do some practice tests. This sounds like basic stuff, not something you need to be a brilliant mathematician to master. Believe in your ability to learn.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    fairer except for those with disabilities such as dyslexia or dyspraxia
    Most should allow additional time for those who require reasonable adjustments. The issue is that too few candidates declare their need for those adjustments.


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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Most should allow additional time for those who require reasonable adjustments. The issue is that too few candidates declare their need for those adjustments.


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    I'm dyspraxic and believe me extra time for a numerical reasoning test or non verbal reasoning test wouldn't help. The civil service fast stream exempts candidates with a disability from both their first two tests, which suggests they do believe even those who don't take them can still do well in the job assuming they pass the tests that come after...
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    (Original post by cheshiremum)
    Work on your maths - get a tutor, do some practice tests. This sounds like basic stuff, not something you need to be a brilliant mathematician to master. Believe in your ability to learn.
    Lets not get too delusional with the over simplified "anyone can do it" rhetoric.
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    (Original post by chosenone93)
    Lets not get too delusional with the over simplified "anyone can do it" rhetoric.
    I didn't say that - but too many people start to believe they really can't do maths, when often what they need is belief and a teacher or tutor tuned in to their ways of learning. Ultimately, tests are supposed to discriminate, but practice does help.
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    Maybe you're just applying to the wrong kinds of jobs if you really can't do it.

    It does seem to be possible to simply learn from experience how to answer each type of question that might come up, so there's still hope in practicing, but once you get the job you probably won't excel, even if you can develop a working competency.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    I'm dyspraxic and believe me extra time for a numerical reasoning test or non verbal reasoning test wouldn't help. The civil service fast stream exempts candidates with a disability from both their first two tests, which suggests they do believe even those who don't take them can still do well in the job assuming they pass the tests that come after...
    Reasonable adjustments are not just about extra time. There's many adjustments that can be made.

    The CSFS exempt as they have the GIS system, where you only have to meet the minimum criteria. It's not for any other reason. You would skip any assessments not deemed to be minimum criteria, not just testing. It could quite easily be a telephone interview or application screen you were skipping instead.

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    Some graduate jobs are heavily involved with mathematics. Take, for example, the Big4. They will require you to undertake intense qualifications, such as ICAS, and these involve using certain formulae and calculating certain percentages etc.

    If you have an E or an F then you are definitely going to struggle with the higher end tests. I have a degree in mathematics and I am very quick with arithmetic however I had to practice a fair bit.

    Having said the above, there are websites online which tell you how to answer certain types of numerical tests questions. If you are 'having to remember' how to do something then you have not practiced anywhere near enough. The time taken should be working out what numbers to use, finding those numbers and understanding what the question is asking. Once you know this, the calculation should be the quick part.

    If I'm brutally honest, I am surprised that you reached the online testing stage with a grade E/F, but if you have your heart set on a graduate role then you will definitely need to practice and research well regarding the numerical tests!

    Good luck!
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    My degree in engineering should point to my ability within mathematics, not a silly 10 minute maths test where you encounter questions written in a purposely vague way. I'm biased when it comes to this anyway. I see no way as to how they can correctly assess me as a good or bad candidate. The grad job I got had no such tests involved.
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    (Original post by ahpadt)
    My degree in engineering should point to my ability within mathematics, not a silly 10 minute maths test where you encounter questions written in a purposely vague way. I'm biased when it comes to this anyway. I see no way as to how they can correctly assess me as a good or bad candidate. The grad job I got had no such tests involved.
    Did your job require an engineering degree though? If so, there would be little reasoning to test mathematical skills.

    However if other applicants came from other degree disciplines they need to have a consistent and fair process - meaning you would take the test as well as someone who had no mathematical content to their degree/studies at all.


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