Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Swanbow)
    Well I very much doubt you will need individual visas for each independent state, seeing as they are all covered under the Schengen area, and thus have a single Schengen visa. That said seeing how dependant countries like Greece, Cyprus and Spain are on British tourism I very much doubt they'd introduce visas.


    Personally I think that if we leave the EU there will still be the freedom of movement between the UK and the EU as the Conservatives, despite the rhetoric, are keen on immigration and most of their ''long term economic plan'' depends on it continuing at current levels.
    We don't " need " net immigration of of more than three hundred thousand net every year for any long term economic plan.

    It is a Ponzi scheme.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Or not.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chakede)
    Just aside for the moment the shock to the economy, the threat to UK based jobs, the new restrictions to trade with our biggest trading partner -

    what do you think about the biggest drawback of all - No more cheap, quick holidays over to europe - visas needed for eurostar., ibiza, kavos, prague amsterdam .
    There won't be tourist visas. There weren't in 1972 and there won't be now. However visas will be needed for other things; students, workers, retirement residents, and it is not self-evident they will be granted.

    For example, it is not obvious that UK students etc will be allowed to work abroad in low paid positions or that Spain and Portugal will be as welcoming to retirees in poor health.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    They all wanted to join the Euro too.
    That isn't the case. Support for joining the Euro was never very high after we left the ERM in 1992. Essentially most British support for joining the single currency pre-dated its existence by a decade.

    Also bear in mind that the Blair government was playing a double game; nominally being in favour of Euro membership in order not to be excluded from EU economic policy decisions as the new structure was created whilst at the same time setting a series of "tests" that Britain had to meet before joining, the last one of which was "when hell freezes over".
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    That isn't the case. Support for joining the Euro was never very high after we left the ERM in 1992.
    Why did we join the ERM in the first place?

    There was a time when both the political and business establishments believed we would be left behind if we didn't join this exciting new economic union. The Euro train would leave the station and we wouldn't be on it, to our eternal economic regret, that was the mantra.

    George Soros taught us that economic union without political union would be a catastrophe for the UK. The rest of the EU (just about all the rest) caught that train.

    How did it work out for them? Well the journey isn't over, far from it, but it doesn't seem to be going all that well, truth be told. Not well at all.

    In fact unless there is full political union Greece will eventually default. Its debt is unsustainable long term. The only way out is exit from the Euro and a devaluation of a reconstited Drachma.

    Everyone knows that but no-one admits it.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chakede)
    thanks but you can keep your 5 degrees in politics and international relations for dummies, ill stick with the medical degree. and i have to say im glad you are arguing on the opposite side to me, because it just proves i dont have the viewpoint on this of one of those idiots i would despise to be, cheers!
    Ah, you're studying medicine. That explains a lot. Doesn't impress me one jot.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    That isn't the case. Support for joining the Euro was never very high after we left the ERM in 1992. Essentially most British support for joining the single currency pre-dated its existence by a decade.
    True in terms of public support, not in terms of elite endorsements. Basically the same people were saying basically the same things about not joining the Euro as they are now saying about not remaining in the EU.

    Of course the stopped watch is still right twice a day, but it does give some pause for thought; these people are either dishonest or their model of the world is not very accurate, so they probably shouldn't be taken very seriously.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    Why did we join the ERM in the first place?

    There was a time when both the political and business establishments believed we would be left behind if we didn't join this exciting new economic union. The Euro train would leave the station and we wouldn't be on it, to our eternal economic regret, that was the mantra.

    You are running together the ERM with the pipedream of a single currency (the Maastricht Treaty refers in the preamble to "ultimately including a single currency") with the concrete proposals for the Euro several years later.

    The reason we joined the ERM was because of a belief in German, not European, economic ability. By the time we signed up to Maastricht, we had been ejected from the ERM, and it is difficult to say that anyone other than the likes of Heseltine on one side and implacable EU opponents on the other, were acting in good faith regarding the single currency. By the time the Euro actually existed and we had the opportunity to sign up to it, the British political establishment were lying to the same degree as their Greek equivalent; but in the British case it was wholly fictitious reasons as to why we would like to join but can't possibly yet. London was a bidder to be the home of the ECB. We had to look keen.

    Tory politicians could have roasted Gordon Brown over his five tests for joining the Euro, but they never did because they were confident those tests would never be met.

    It is wrong to hold politicians to statements made for purely political reasons 20 years.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    Why did we join the ERM in the first place?

    There was a time when both the political and business establishments believed we would be left behind if we didn't join this exciting new economic union. .
    Not really. The tests for joining the Euro were never close to being met. Therefore, there was never a possibility of us joining.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Though the argument is simplistic, and it's extremely unlikely that Schengen member states will impose short-term entry restrictions to UK nationals, it is significantly more likely that states remaining in the EU will impose restrictions on UK nationals working in their jurisdiction. Which isn't too good for me, as I would love to work in continental Europe should the opportunity arise.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    They all wanted to join the Euro too. They were wrong then and are wrong now.

    We didn't need visas to go into (non Communist) Europe before we joined the EEC and won't after we leave.

    The level of ignorance is astounding!
    yes I Can see that, but i was prepared for the out crowd - a. europe is a lot bigger than it was when we joined , and b. the eu already has a visa system in place - its called the Schengen Visa once we are outside the EU, we fall into visa assessment criteria , on a country by country basis. noone can predict at this point who will simply let us in and who will not - given we are not part of their union. in the same way as we wont be simply letting everyone from the EU into the uk. you seem to expect EU will let us have our cake and eat it - the most ignorant position of all. wake up.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chakede)
    im saying that the opportunity for them to start charging money for visas will not be missed by these places as well as those that want to return the favour of all the places that we will be imposing tighter checks on like czech republic, poland romania, hungary etc etc and who knows maybe even spain france ( eurostar, calais). thats what happens when you detach from a union
    Well, they are probably not going to enforce Visas for short term holidays.

    They will probably impose it for long term Economic migrants. (IE People that go to retire in Spain or People that work abroad).

    Obviously, the non-EU nut jobs won't admit this basic fact. They will pretend that every place is like Ibiza and depends on idiot drunks to turn up every week.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    True in terms of public support, not in terms of elite endorsements. Basically the same people were saying basically the same things about not joining the Euro as they are now saying about not remaining in the EU.

    Of course the stopped watch is still right twice a day, but it does give some pause for thought; these people are either dishonest or their model of the world is not very accurate, so they probably shouldn't be taken very seriously.
    They were dishonest but to our European partners. When did British government policy stop being to join the Euro when we met the 5 economic tests and met the convergence criteria? I do not recall ever hearing the announcement. It just drifted into the miasma.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Swanbow)
    Personally I think that if we leave the EU there will still be the freedom of movement between the UK and the EU as the Conservatives, despite the rhetoric, are keen on immigration and most of their ''long term economic plan'' depends on it continuing at current levels.
    Ssshhh. Don't let out their secret.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rockrunride)
    Though the argument is simplistic, and it's extremely unlikely that Schengen member states will impose short-term entry restrictions to UK nationals, it is significantly more likely that states remaining in the EU will impose restrictions on UK nationals working in their jurisdiction. Which isn't too good for me, as I would love to work in continental Europe should the opportunity arise.
    the point of the thread , tho ironically initially , was that the idea of the quick convenient trip to europe will be affected. and you seem to assume a lot about what the eu does without us in it. and seem blissfully unaware that they will want to ensure 'short term arrivals' leve when they are suppossed to , and generally this means issueing some sort of tourist visa to keep track of who has gone there (in the same way we would for most eu nationals.

    it goes well beyond kicking out all the eu citezens who work for us here ( and brits there) What about all the OAP brits that have settled in spain france and greece? presuambely unless they change their citezensip they all have to come back
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chakede)
    the point of the thread , tho ironically initially , was that the idea of the quick convenient trip to europe will be affected. and you seem to assume a lot about what the eu does without us in it. and seem blissfully unaware that they will want to ensure 'short term arrivals' leve when they are suppossed to , and generally this means issueing some sort of tourist visa to keep track of who has gone there (in the same way we would for most eu nationals

    it goes well beyond kicking out all the eu citezens who work for us here ( and brits there) What about all the OAP brits that have settled in spain france and greece? presuambely unless they change their citezensip they all have to come back
    I'm firmly backing the remain campaign, but I can't see a weekend jaunt to the Continent becoming significantly harder should we leave the EU.

    As for the second paragraph, they will not kick out retirees. That I can foresee with relative certainty.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, they are probably not going to enforce Visas for short term holidays.

    They will probably impose it for long term Economic migrants. (IE People that go to retire in Spain or People that work abroad).

    Obviously, the non-EU nut jobs won't admit this basic fact. They will pretend that every place is like Ibiza and depends on idiot drunks to turn up every week.
    indeed and what about the million or two oaps in southern europe, do we now have to house them back over here?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rockrunride)
    I'm firmly backing the remain campaign, but I can't see a weekend jaunt to the Continent becoming significantly harder should we leave the EU.
    im talking with my 60 year old neighbour who recalls simply going over to calais on a ferry was a pain in the backside - its much easier and much more popular now
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TeeEm)
    The effect on the economy if the UK leaves the EU nobody really knows ...
    It will take years to actually see what would really happen ...
    I don't think it would take years. You would see an immediate devaluation in the pound, like we are seeing now. Some companies would just switch headquarters abroad since it isn't hard to do and that would eventually lead to jobs moving.

    In terms of Economic Investment, I would expect Capital to leave the country and less people to invest simply because the future is so uncertain. In fact, if the poll figures are very close or favoring Brexit close to the Poll Date, I would expect it to cause a slow down in growth.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chakede)
    indeed and what about the million or two oaps in southern europe, do we now have to house them back over here?
    Well, I don't know about that. I don't really expect Spain to kick out a few hundred thousand expats.

    The question is their long term access to healthcare, welfare and etc and how that is affected since they would be non-EU immigrants.

    These are answers that I don't think anyone can really give an answer to till Brexit happens.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.