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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    They aren't impotent. They were simply blindsided by Merkel last year. You can that as the snows clear, the fences are going up on the external border (excluding Greece that cannot be trusted).

    Europe was always supposed to have a strong external frontier but Schengen expanded so fast since 2004 that countries (a) didn't want to spend money on an external border that would pretty soon become an internal border and (b) didn't have the capacity to fence build quickly enough.
    They are impotent because they can't agree and don't know their own mind.

    Do you think a real Union, the American States in aggregate, for example, would react in this pathetic way?

    Since the US civil war they have had real political and economic union. The EU doesn't that is its fatal flaw.

    Maybe you would like that? A true United States of Europe? Messianic Europhiles see this crisis as proof that we need full federation. I notice the In Campaign are strangely quiet on this though. Because if that were the choice (and it is the logical solution to all the EU's problems) we would definitely vote to leave as a nation.
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    Putting poor Mr. Hollande's nose out of joint. That's about it :dontknow:
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Article 50 TEU is not a ransom clause, it is a divorcing clause. To rejoin the EU, we will have to apply for membership again where every member state will have to vote in favour.

    If we wish to leave the EU right away, we can but if we haven't within 2 years, they will kick us out, unless both parties (UK + EU) agree to extend the period.
    Yes I know. If we vote to leave, it doesn't mean we invoke article 50. We will still be in the EU. The leave campaign makes it sound like doomsday, when in reality leaving the EU is a slow and gradual process.
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    (Original post by alexh42)
    If we vote to leave, it doesn't mean we leave the EU straight away. We have to invoke article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty which starts a 2 year process where the EU gives us a deal. During the two years, we are still in the EU. We can delay invoking article 50, to give more time for us to make free trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world.
    It took 10 years+ to negotiate FTA's with the USA and South Korea. You want to stay in for that long?
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    It took 10 years+ to negotiate FTA's with the USA and South Korea. You want to stay in for that long?
    Yes, because eventually we will be outside of the EU.
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    (Original post by alexh42)
    Yes, because eventually we will be outside of the EU.
    Doubt it. More than 10 years on. Different Government. Different time.

    Ignoring that issue, you will not be able to negotiate FTAs whilst in the EU since it is against their rules.
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    No more EU arrest warrant, so all our criminals escape elsewhere, similar to the Costa del Crime in the 80s.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    No more EU arrest warrant, so all our criminals escape elsewhere, similar to the Costa del Crime in the 80s.
    Definitely voting out now.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    No more EU arrest warrant, so all our criminals escape elsewhere, similar to the Costa del Crime in the 80s.
    Because before we opted into the European arrest warrant we had no way at all of touching a criminal after they crossed the border...

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