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    Why is the sovereignty of the UK so important to them?

    Why are they so opposed to an EU superstate.

    If all they want is UK interests protected resources could be invested in influencing leadership of the EU.

    Do they just want to recreate the England they knew as children?

    Rulers create borders for politico-economic reasons.

    So why do they, citizens of a country, place so much importance on the particular geographic bounds in which a ruler (in a general sense) has decided to install his regime (that is within which a system of governance decides to operate).

    I can understand why British fishermen would be opposed to the EU, but I don't think they make up a wealthy enough or powerful collective group alone to be the driving force of this campaign.

    Is there a large lucrative enough British industry I am missing that would fare better outside the EU?

    Or perhaps some British politicos fear the diminution of power they would have in a superstate?
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    They seem to be motivated by a fervent xenophobic agenda which they seem to think, will roll back the years of decadence that they believe accompanied membership of the EU.

    To quote current Republican sentiments, they wish to "Make [the UK] Great Again"
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    Basically, Leave voters want better controls over our borders. Not unreasonable, with the migrant crisis in Europe.
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    Basically, Leave voters want better controls over our borders. Not unreasonable, with the migrant crisis in Europe.
    The UK is important enough in the EU to effectively lobby for an exception to migration law applicable to other member countries, so I personally don't buy that.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    They seem to be motivated by a fervent xenophobic agenda which they seem to think, will roll back the years of decadence that they believe accompanied membership of the EU.

    To quote current Republican sentiments, they wish to "Make [the UK] Great Again"
    That's what I'm inclined to think. But as with many prominent political movements I believe there may be other private interests involved.
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    (Original post by Prajna)
    Why is the sovereignty of the UK so important to them?

    Why are they so opposed to an EU superstate.

    If all they want is UK interests protected resources could be invested in influencing leadership of the EU.

    Do they just want to recreate the England they knew as children?

    Rulers create borders for politico-economic reasons.

    So why do they, citizens of a country, place so much importance on the particular geographic bounds in which a ruler (in a general sense) has decided to install his regime (that is within which a system of governance decides to operate).

    I can understand why British fishermen would be opposed to the EU, but I don't think they make up a wealthy enough or powerful collective group alone to be the driving force of this campaign.

    Is there a large lucrative enough British industry I am missing that would fare better outside the EU?

    Or perhaps some British politicos fear the diminution of power they would have in a superstate?
    If we become an EU superstate then we will be governed by people who have no concept of what it's like to live in Britain or the problems affecting Britain so they will not be capable of doing anything beneficial for us. Furthermore, people from other parts of Europe (who also have no clue at all about what's going on in Britain) will be voting in our affairs. The people of Britain won't have a voice anymore because it'll be drowned out by the rest of Europe. For me this is absolutely unacceptable.
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    (Original post by Prajna)
    The UK is important enough in the EU to effectively lobby for an exception to migration law applicable to other member countries, so I personally don't buy that.
    Then why haven't we?
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    If we become an EU superstate then we will be governed by people who have no concept of what it's like to live in Britain or the problems affecting Britain so they will not be capable of doing anything beneficial for us.

    If the UK becomes part of an EU superstate, local government would probably still exist.

    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    Furthermore, people from other parts of Europe (who also have no clue at all about what's going on in Britain) will be voting in our affairs. The people of Britain won't have a voice anymore because it'll be drowned out by the rest of Europe. For me this is absolutely unacceptable.
    They will still have a vote at the local level, ie where they live. They won't have much influence on the overall governance of the nation.

    Plus in an EU superstate each countries interests will be linked in a vaster web, so interests may coincide.


    Plus there would probably political groups across Europe that cluster together to influence EU legislation, so it may not be too dissimilar to the current system of voting for MPs (vaguely speaking).
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    (Original post by Prajna)
    Cameron has.
    Ummm, no he hasn't.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ummm, no he hasn't.
    Sorry, I'll delete that, made a mistake. However, I maintain that the UK could still effectively lobby for an exception to migration law applicable to other countries.
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    (Original post by Prajna)
    Sorry, I'll delete that, made a mistake. However, I maintain that the UK could still effectively lobby for an exception to migration law applicable to other countries.
    There is no chance of it happening given that it is one of the fundamental aspects of the EU, the free movement of labour, there's basically no way of getting rid of it without leaving. There are of course some exceptions such as not being part of Schengen, but that goes nowhere near as far as people want because all it means is we still have a border, it does not stop that free movement.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    There is no chance of it happening given that it is one of the fundamental aspects of the EU, the free movement of labour, there's basically no way of getting rid of it without leaving. There are of course some exceptions such as not being part of Schengen, but that goes nowhere near as far as people want because all it means is we still have a border, it does not stop that free movement.
    Ok. But incentives could be manipulated to curb immigration. Such as, have to be a resident for a certain amount of years before you can apply for a job or set up your business, or rent a house etc...
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    (Original post by Prajna)
    Ok. But incentives could be manipulated to curb immigration. Such as, have to be a resident for a certain amount of years before you can apply for a job or set up your business, or rent a house etc...
    Given how hard it was to get the meaningless changes we did get I doubt there is much chance of getting such significant reforms, the thing about the applying for a job is that what we want is that if they do come they do work, and I would have to ask the question, given you mentioned renting, do you expect them to either buy a house or be homeless with these sorts of proposals?

    There are ways of theoretically sorting out the problem whilst in the EU, the difficulty is actually getting the necessary agreement for it.
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    They want the UK to leave the EU.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Given how hard it was to get the meaningless changes we did get I doubt there is much chance of getting such significant reforms, the thing about the applying for a job is that what we want is that if they do come they do work, and I would have to ask the question, given you mentioned renting, do you expect them to either buy a house or be homeless with these sorts of proposals?

    There are ways of theoretically sorting out the problem whilst in the EU, the difficulty is actually getting the necessary agreement for it.
    Yes, you could require that they already have bought a property in the UK, which I guess would in turn solve the 'low wage economy' problem.

    The point I was making was that theoretically there should be ways to create incentives so unfavorable that there would not be much to gain at all, nor would it be feasible to move to the UK.

    The EU Leave campaign is rather old, and it appears to me that this movement represents resources that could have been diverted to lobbying for greater national border controls for non-schengen countries.
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    (Original post by Prajna)
    Yes, you could require that they already have bought a property in the UK, which I guess would in turn solve the 'low wage economy' problem.

    The point I was making was that theoretically there should be ways to create incentives so unfavorable that there would not be much to gain at all, nor would it be feasible to move to the UK.

    The EU Leave campaign is rather old, and it appears to me that this movement represents resources that could have been diverted to lobbying for greater national border controls for non-schengen countries.
    But you just cycle back round to "the core of the EU is reliant upon that freedom" and "good luck getting unanimous support". Yes, in theory we could get such changes, but we could in theory bring the British Empire in all its glory back, not happening.
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    Why is the sovereignty of the UK so important to them?

    Because we need to be able to have a democracy. Loosing parliamentary sovereignty created a democratic deficit as highlighted by the factortame case.

    Why are they so opposed to an EU superstate.

    The EU is made up of separate countries, with different languages, different customs, different ways of life, it is not right to try and force that together under a Federal Banner to satisfy some politicians. One only has to look as far as Greece, who voted against democracy, only to be rejected by the EU, to see how this would cause a war. Disagreements would be prevelant and Europe would be run with a tyranny of the majority.


    Hitler tried that once. We stopped it for a reason, not just because of his views.


    If all they want is UK interests protected resources could be invested in influencing leadership of the EU.
    We want full control, we strive for more.

    Do they just want to recreate the England they knew as children?

    No, as the world has changed. Now, we have emerging markets which present us with huge opportunities for growth, to get trade deals with them, we have to leave.

    Rulers create borders for politico-economic reasons.

    And social, just look at the tension in Germany, or more locally, Rotherham.

    So why do they, citizens of a country, place so much importance on the particular geographic bounds in which a ruler (in a general sense) has decided to install his regime (that is within which a system of governance decides to operate).

    Because borders are an essential way to control who comes in and out of our country. Criminals could go anywhere they want, escape the eyes of the law, as there will always be borders on this earth, as they work. Coming back to the EU, a controlled border would be a win for equality. At the moment, we unfairly discriminate against those who are not from the EU, to compensate from those coming from the EU. Our country is obssesed with numbers, and not the quality. If we controlled our borders fully, which is only possible if we leave, we can accept more from outside the EU, reject criminals and instead allow those who will be a boost to the economy to come in. Again, we do not settle for slightly beneficial immigration, we want immigration to be hugely profitable for the country.

    I can understand why British fishermen would be opposed to the EU, but I don't think they make up a wealthy enough or powerful collective group alone to be the driving force of this campaign.
    No, you are correct. However, their issue (factotame case) is a prime example to others of what could happen to them. A democratically passed act being rejected by an unelected body? This is what people do not like.
    Also, the common fisheries policy has cost British costal communities 115,000 jobs.

    Is there a large lucrative enough British industry I am missing that would fare better outside the EU?
    Obviously, the steel industry would be hugely protected, as we could introduce tariffs. Leaving the EU is, in general, anti-big business. This is because the larger companies thrive with lots of regulation, as smaller business cannot cope with it. But to answer your question, manufacturing, farming, fishing would profit.

    However, you miss the point. We are, as we all know, a country of imports. Leaving the EU would allow us to create trade deals with the rest of the world, as well as the EU. Given our status as consumers, this would be a huge benifit to the British consumer.


    Or perhaps some British politicos fear the diminution of power they would have in a superstate?
    No, they just like democracy and a voice in politics.
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    National sovereignty, border control, not wanting to be part of a 'United States of Europe'.

    Reasonable requests. We managed fine before 1973 (which was when we joined for trade purposes, NOT for political union) and can do so again.
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    just wanna **** **** up
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    The whole world is leaning towards a globalised economy where political and economical interests are shared and accomplished between countries.

    And here we have a bunch of tossers who thinks we need to preserve our "sovereignty" and find a way to be an isolated nation so we can be finally be "great" again. God damn these maggots!
 
 
 
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