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What will we find out AFTER a vote to STAY in the EU watch

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    I Post this up as I can foresee it coming that after a vote to stay in the EU will we only be told of all the bad news and stuff we will have to put up with that EU & UK Stay politicians are holding back from us hearing before the vote. Only though we will be told that this is what we have to adhere to by voting to stay in the EU and are now stuck with the situation since we will have lost our chance of independence.

    Namely I foresee,

    1). Angela,etc will carve up the refugee's into portions for each member country to share, with a large portion being assigned to us without us having any say and assuming this would have not been the case before the vote.

    2). UK taxpayer money being called upon to assist the migrant crises.

    3). Companies such as BMW that have been pressuring workers and the UK population into staying buggering off anyway to set up production elsewhere in the EU.

    4). Anything contained in Minsters papers that is a big thorn for the stay campaign that we will only find out after the referendum.

    5). A general continuing deterioration of the EU market, economy and Euro, and further economic instability in countries like Greece, Italy, Spain and France. All of which are stuck on a downward trend due to debt and the Euro but with the bad news being held back until after the UK referendum.

    Other possibilities conceivable to, what do you think? Is the lack of transparency in the UK referendum tantamount to election fraud? Shouldn't the full details be out in the open rather than the Stay camp deciding that only by hoodwinking the electorate can they win.
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    1) 2) and 3) are *******s. The country is sovereign and can tell them to swing if they want to. The present Government already secured undertakings against 1) and 2) happening, and 3) may as well happen if we left the EU.

    4) applies just as much to the OUT gang hiding their inconvenient facts.

    5) is a possibility, but I don't see UK withdrawal helping us or them, especially as UK withdrawal will largely be seen as a body-blow to EU authority. Nice job breaking it, basically.

    In short, though, everything you posted is meaningless speculation at best, downright scaremongering at worst.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    1) 2) and 3) are *******s. The country is sovereign and can tell them to swing if they want to. The present Government already secured undertakings against 1) and 2) happening, and 3) may as well happen if we left the EU.

    4) applies just as much to the OUT gang hiding their inconvenient facts.

    5) is a possibility, but I don't see UK withdrawal helping us or them, especially as UK withdrawal will largely be seen as a body-blow to EU authority. Nice job breaking it, basically.

    In short, though, everything you posted is meaningless speculation at best, downright scaremongering at worst.
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    (Original post by Gavin2016)

    1). Angela,etc will carve up the refugee's into portions for each member country to share, with a large portion being assigned to us without us having any say and assuming this would have not been the case before the vote.

    2). UK taxpayer money being called upon to assist the migrant crises.

    3). Companies such as BMW that have been pressuring workers and the UK population into staying buggering off anyway to set up production elsewhere in the EU.

    4). Anything contained in Minsters papers that is a big thorn for the stay campaign that we will only find out after the referendum.

    5). A general continuing deterioration of the EU market, economy and Euro, and further economic instability in countries like Greece, Italy, Spain and France. All of which are stuck on a downward trend due to debt and the Euro but with the bad news being held back until after the UK referendum.

    Other possibilities conceivable to, what do you think? Is the lack of transparency in the UK referendum tantamount to election fraud? Shouldn't the full details be out in the open rather than the Stay camp deciding that only by hoodwinking the electorate can they win.
    1) Made up

    2) Already is.

    3) Made up

    4) Made up

    5) I am not sure how this changes that the EU is by far the UK's biggest trading partner.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    1) 2) and 3) are *******s. The country is sovereign and can tell them to swing if they want to. The present Government already secured undertakings against 1) and 2) happening, and 3) may as well happen if we left the EU.

    4) applies just as much to the OUT gang hiding their inconvenient facts.

    5) is a possibility, but I don't see UK withdrawal helping us or them, especially as UK withdrawal will largely be seen as a body-blow to EU authority. Nice job breaking it, basically.

    In short, though, everything you posted is meaningless speculation at best, downright scaremongering at worst.
    Well once the EU goes to ever closer union, we'll lose all power to break away or to have referendums on such, we'll lose all sovereignty. We'll just be another region of Europe with the central government in Brussels or perhaps Berlin. It would take a civil war to break apart from the EU by that stage.

    I can't see how OUT campaign are hiding any facts - they are not the one making agreement behind closed doors or hidden agendas. What for example did Cameron have to give the Polish, etc in exchange for their agreement, they were in there quite some time before a 'sudden breakthrough' - down to what?

    The sooner we can develop better economic ties with the rest of the world the better. There is a whole world out there that makes up the economy, not just the EU. The EU stops us forming trade agreement (free trade) with these countries which is a ludicrous way to the economic well being of member states. Cutting us off from big emerging or emerged markets just makes us more vulnerable to EU volatility. IF the EU go down so were we when that needn't be the case - look at the mayhem we avoided by not joining the Euro - which we nearly did!
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    (Original post by Gavin2016)
    Well once the EU goes to ever closer union, we'll lose all power to break away or to have referendums on such, we'll lose all sovereignty. We'll just be another region of Europe with the central government in Brussels or perhaps Berlin. It would take a civil war to break apart from the EU by that stage.
    Again, *******s. The Treaties quite clearly map out the process by which a Member State can withdraw from the EU (article 50), and even if it weren't there (it was introduced in Lisbon), the UK would still have the sovereign right to withdraw unilaterally if it so wished.

    To deny the UK the right to withdraw would require a Treaty change - which would need unanimity among all EU Member States. So even if, as is incredibly remote, the other Member States somehow took loss of their senses and voted to adopt such a provision, the UK alone could block it.

    I can't see how OUT campaign are hiding any facts - they are not the one making agreement behind closed doors or hidden agendas. What for example did Cameron have to give the Polish, etc in exchange for their agreement, they were in there quite some time before a 'sudden breakthrough' - down to what?
    Gosh, I have no idea. It's like treaties and international agreements are never arranged in private :rolleyes:

    The fact that your first claim in this post is a complete falsity, perhaps a downright lie, is a perfect example of how OUT are packed full of snake-oil salesmen.

    The sooner we can develop better economic ties with the rest of the world the better. There is a whole world out there that makes up the economy, not just the EU. The EU stops us forming trade agreement (free trade) with these countries which is a ludicrous way to the economic well being of member states.
    Again, *******s. Chinese-British trade agreement, as one example.

    The EU doesn't not prevent the UK from making its own trade agreements so long as those agreements do not violate the agreements the UK has bound itself to in the EU. Which is standard practice in all sorts of treaties and international agreements. The EU has committed no sin here.

    Cutting us off from big emerging or emerged markets just makes us more vulnerable to EU volatility. IF the EU go down so were we when that needn't be the case - look at the mayhem we avoided by not joining the Euro - which we nearly did!
    It's not cutting us off. If it were quite such a slam-dunk as you say, we wouldn't have the trade and industry sectors completely split down the middle, as they currently are. At the moment, we are a very powerful voice within a trading group of 28 States, of half a billion wealthy, highly-educated people. Outside, we are just one more voice in a world of seven billion, of varying wealth, education, and friendliness to the UK. Perhaps we could survive out there. I daresay we could. But would things be better? I think both have cases to make.

    But the thing is, it's a shame that your last paragraph here, which it seems you put the least store on given the fact you put it last, is actually your best. All that stuff you wrote before about the EU blocking British sovereignty is utterly fictional and bunkum. Drop that, and focus on the economic side of things, and you'll have a stronger case and be seen as less of a loon.

    Plus, the fact that the only major country out there welcoming a Brexit is Russia, one of our greatest adversaries, makes me wonder.
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    (Original post by Gavin2016)
    I Post this up as I can foresee it coming that after a vote to stay in the EU will we only be told of all the bad news and stuff we will have to put up with that EU & UK Stay politicians are holding back from us hearing before the vote. Only though we will be told that this is what we have to adhere to by voting to stay in the EU and are now stuck with the situation since we will have lost our chance of independence.

    Namely I foresee,

    1). Angela,etc will carve up the refugee's into portions for each member country to share, with a large portion being assigned to us without us having any say and assuming this would have not been the case before the vote.

    2). UK taxpayer money being called upon to assist the migrant crises.

    3). Companies such as BMW that have been pressuring workers and the UK population into staying buggering off anyway to set up production elsewhere in the EU.

    4). Anything contained in Minsters papers that is a big thorn for the stay campaign that we will only find out after the referendum.

    5). A general continuing deterioration of the EU market, economy and Euro, and further economic instability in countries like Greece, Italy, Spain and France. All of which are stuck on a downward trend due to debt and the Euro but with the bad news being held back until after the UK referendum.

    Other possibilities conceivable to, what do you think? Is the lack of transparency in the UK referendum tantamount to election fraud? Shouldn't the full details be out in the open rather than the Stay camp deciding that only by hoodwinking the electorate can they win.
    Ah, joy. The what-ifs mixed with a healthy dose of conspiracy theorism.

    1. This would be illegal.

    2. We already are one of the world's lead funders in the Middle East and have the world's second largest overseas development budget. This happens now.

    3. They might. I don't think anyone is under the slightest illusion that any business will do anything that doesn't benefit it financially. By staying in the EU, we are making a political decision that makes us a more attractive place to invest.

    4. ???

    5. Um, GDP and other economic statistics are public knowledge. They're not being 'held back'.
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    In point 5 he is referring to new national insurance numbers for Eu migrants being nearly three times higher a year than the official eu migration stats.

    The government has blocked all data surrounding this information.


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    (Original post by gladders)
    Again, *******s. The Treaties quite clearly map out the process by which a Member State can withdraw from the EU (article 50), and even if it weren't there (it was introduced in Lisbon), the UK would still have the sovereign right to withdraw unilaterally if it so wished.

    To deny the UK the right to withdraw would require a Treaty change - which would need unanimity among all EU Member States. So even if, as is incredibly remote, the other Member States somehow took loss of their senses and voted to adopt such a provision, the UK alone could block it.



    Gosh, I have no idea. It's like treaties and international agreements are never arranged in private :rolleyes:

    The fact that your first claim in this post is a complete falsity, perhaps a downright lie, is a perfect example of how OUT are packed full of snake-oil salesmen.



    Again, *******s. Chinese-British trade agreement, as one example.

    The EU doesn't not prevent the UK from making its own trade agreements so long as those agreements do not violate the agreements the UK has bound itself to in the EU. Which is standard practice in all sorts of treaties and international agreements. The EU has committed no sin here.



    It's not cutting us off. If it were quite such a slam-dunk as you say, we wouldn't have the trade and industry sectors completely split down the middle, as they currently are. At the moment, we are a very powerful voice within a trading group of 28 States, of half a billion wealthy, highly-educated people. Outside, we are just one more voice in a world of seven billion, of varying wealth, education, and friendliness to the UK. Perhaps we could survive out there. I daresay we could. But would things be better? I think both have cases to make.

    But the thing is, it's a shame that your last paragraph here, which it seems you put the least store on given the fact you put it last, is actually your best. All that stuff you wrote before about the EU blocking British sovereignty is utterly fictional and bunkum. Drop that, and focus on the economic side of things, and you'll have a stronger case and be seen as less of a loon.

    Plus, the fact that the only major country out there welcoming a Brexit is Russia, one of our greatest adversaries, makes me wonder.
    Treaties essentially mean very little with the EU, they can be changed by cajoling the leaders of the member states, what the populace of the EU want is trodden over in the face of the all consuming politicians pet project of a EU superstate similar to the US.

    The UK cannot make free trade agreements with nations that the EU has issues with. Hence we're cut out of huge developing markets. The EU market is essentially a backwater since the various economic disasters it has helped produce. The Euro is over-valued bum paper, being worth more than can be justified by the weakening economic state of the EU - this will come apparent soon I think. Sterling is the hard currency in Europe as it is underpinned by a lot stronger economy and is long established. Had we joined the Euro we would have been suckered into the Greek crises and hence economic misery. This alone should tell you the EU project is mis-guided - how many people have to suffer to realize a politicians ambitions?

    St the moment we are an unheard trading voice among member states, it is essentially Germany and their French sidekicks calling the shots, they have always ganged up to control what happens in the EU and are in control. Independently we are unshackled from the awkward EU situation and can move with decisiveness and purpose. We will no longer be seen as just some unimportant part of an organization.
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    (Original post by Gavin2016)
    Treaties essentially mean very little with the EU, they can be changed by cajoling the leaders of the member states, what the populace of the EU want is trodden over in the face of the all consuming politicians pet project of a EU superstate similar to the US.
    Put the tin hat away. Got an example of EU leaders violating a Treaty? Otherwise you're just lying.

    The UK cannot make free trade agreements with nations that the EU has issues with. Hence we're cut out of huge developing markets.
    Again, rubbish, If we're able to trade with China and Saudi Arabia, which we have done, then the EU can hardly block us from trading from any other country. Again: got an example of a country we can't trade with because the EU says so? Otherwise, you're lying.

    The EU market is essentially a backwater since the various economic disasters it has helped produce. The Euro is over-valued bum paper, being worth more than can be justified by the weakening economic state of the EU - this will come apparent soon I think. Sterling is the hard currency in Europe as it is underpinned by a lot stronger economy and is long established. Had we joined the Euro we would have been suckered into the Greek crises and hence economic misery. This alone should tell you the EU project is mis-guided - how many people have to suffer to realize a politicians ambitions?
    That's odd, because last I checked the Euro is still worth about 80p and is approximate to the US dollar. And the eurozone may have taken some knocks, but so has everywhere.

    St the moment we are an unheard trading voice among member states, it is essentially Germany and their French sidekicks calling the shots, they have always ganged up to control what happens in the EU and are in control. Independently we are unshackled from the awkward EU situation and can move with decisiveness and purpose. We will no longer be seen as just some unimportant part of an organization.
    Again, this is *******s. Jesus dude, do you simply parrot what people tell you, or have you actually done some independent research and investigation?
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    (Original post by Gavin2016)
    I Post this up as I can foresee it coming that after a vote to stay in the EU will we only be told of all the bad news and stuff we will have to put up with that EU & UK Stay politicians are holding back from us hearing before the vote. Only though we will be told that this is what we have to adhere to by voting to stay in the EU and are now stuck with the situation since we will have lost our chance of independence.

    Namely I foresee,

    1). Angela,etc will carve up the refugee's into portions for each member country to share, with a large portion being assigned to us without us having any say and assuming this would have not been the case before the vote.

    2). UK taxpayer money being called upon to assist the migrant crises.

    3). Companies such as BMW that have been pressuring workers and the UK population into staying buggering off anyway to set up production elsewhere in the EU.

    4). Anything contained in Minsters papers that is a big thorn for the stay campaign that we will only find out after the referendum.

    5). A general continuing deterioration of the EU market, economy and Euro, and further economic instability in countries like Greece, Italy, Spain and France. All of which are stuck on a downward trend due to debt and the Euro but with the bad news being held back until after the UK referendum.

    Other possibilities conceivable to, what do you think? Is the lack of transparency in the UK referendum tantamount to election fraud? Shouldn't the full details be out in the open rather than the Stay camp deciding that only by hoodwinking the electorate can they win.
    Just because the Leave campaign is floundering and unconvincing (as epitomised by Boris Johnson's characteristically insincere but uncharacteristically unsure performance on the Andrew Marr Show this morning) doesn't mean that the electorate is being 'hoodwinked'. Arguments are to be changed in the face of truths not the other way around.
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    We do have sovereignty and are able to resist many of the measures you have outlined.
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    (Original post by Gavin2016)
    I Post this up as I can foresee it coming that after a vote to stay in the EU will we only be told of all the bad news and stuff we will have to put up with that EU & UK Stay politicians are holding back from us hearing before the vote. Only though we will be told that this is what we have to adhere to by voting to stay in the EU and are now stuck with the situation since we will have lost our chance of independence.

    Namely I foresee,

    1). Angela,etc will carve up the refugee's into portions for each member country to share, with a large portion being assigned to us without us having any say and assuming this would have not been the case before the vote.

    2). UK taxpayer money being called upon to assist the migrant crises.

    3). Companies such as BMW that have been pressuring workers and the UK population into staying buggering off anyway to set up production elsewhere in the EU.

    4). Anything contained in Minsters papers that is a big thorn for the stay campaign that we will only find out after the referendum.

    5). A general continuing deterioration of the EU market, economy and Euro, and further economic instability in countries like Greece, Italy, Spain and France. All of which are stuck on a downward trend due to debt and the Euro but with the bad news being held back until after the UK referendum.

    Other possibilities conceivable to, what do you think? Is the lack of transparency in the UK referendum tantamount to election fraud? Shouldn't the full details be out in the open rather than the Stay camp deciding that only by hoodwinking the electorate can they win.
    I agree with all your post expect for 2 things (in bold)..

    Your out of date with Spain and Ireland, they are the poster boys for austerity and are now booming albeit Spain has a huge unemployment issue still..



    Secondly the onus of change is rightly on the leave campaign and the country did not elect a euro-skeptic government, the government was clearly committed to In. So it's right that they set the rules of the game so to speak.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I agree with all your post expect for 2 things (in bold)..

    Your out of date with Spain and Ireland, they are the poster boys for austerity and are now booming albeit Spain has a huge unemployment issue still..



    Secondly the onus of change is rightly on the leave campaign and the country did not elect a euro-skeptic government, the government was clearly committed to In. So it's right that they set the rules of the game so to speak.
    Spain isn't booming if it was it would have good growth and low unemployment


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Spain isn't booming if it was it would have good growth and low unemployment

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    Boom was an overstatement but it has growth of 3.5% and falling unemployment so my point still stands. The Irish economy grew by more than 5% last year.

    Point being, you can't tar the EU or Euro-zone with a big brush.
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    (Original post by Gavin2016)
    I Post this up as I can foresee it coming that after a vote to stay in the EU will we only be told of all the bad news and stuff we will have to put up with that EU & UK Stay politicians are holding back from us hearing before the vote. Only though we will be told that this is what we have to adhere to by voting to stay in the EU and are now stuck with the situation since we will have lost our chance of independence.

    Namely I foresee,

    1). Angela,etc will carve up the refugee's into portions for each member country to share, with a large portion being assigned to us without us having any say and assuming this would have not been the case before the vote.

    2). UK taxpayer money being called upon to assist the migrant crises.

    3). Companies such as BMW that have been pressuring workers and the UK population into staying buggering off anyway to set up production elsewhere in the EU.

    4). Anything contained in Minsters papers that is a big thorn for the stay campaign that we will only find out after the referendum.

    5). A general continuing deterioration of the EU market, economy and Euro, and further economic instability in countries like Greece, Italy, Spain and France. All of which are stuck on a downward trend due to debt and the Euro but with the bad news being held back until after the UK referendum.

    Other possibilities conceivable to, what do you think? Is the lack of transparency in the UK referendum tantamount to election fraud? Shouldn't the full details be out in the open rather than the Stay camp deciding that only by hoodwinking the electorate can they win.
    I'll hit the titty bar with winnings from betfair.

    The out campaign are making noise, skewing odds, but the result is predetermined, so I'm gon' get paid!
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    it will take a while (years with some experts claiming up to a decade) to see the effects of in or out
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Boom was an overstatement but it has growth of 3.5% and falling unemployment so my point still stands. The Irish economy grew by more than 5% last year.

    Point being, you can't tar the EU or Euro-zone with a big brush.
    A quarter of the population is out of work. 3.5% growth doesn't change anything until the figure is at least half that.


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