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    (Original post by Caponester)
    I'm a wee bit out of the loop when it comes to exam regulations etc but how many attempts are you allowed to have at the GPhC exam these days? Pretty sure it was 3 when I did it in 2012.

    Also, 95% pass rate in the summer exam? That's unbelievably high. It was always around the 70% mark when I did it. I'd suggest that the summer exam was probably too easy. Might not want to hear this, but most royal college exams in the medical profession have similarly low pass rates (about one third pass MRCS part A first time).

    Just my thoughts.
    It is three attempts and im sure for the 3rd attempt you need to do a few months of pre reg again. But apparently there were a lot of people who were doing the sept exam as their 3rd attempt, so i feel bad for them
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    I've previously looked into GPhC pass rates, and I think it's normal for them to drop between July and September; the latter month tends to have a higher proportion of first sits, so you would expect to see a higher pass rate. While 95% - 40% is a rather jarring drop, I believe it follows the general trend.

    As to why September sittings are lower than July? Dunno. But I will say this: The pre-reg exam is a very different beast to Pharmacy exams, in that you can't get through it on a wing and a prayer. It's not like sitting down and writing an essay on the metabolism of Paracetamol, where you can scrape enough marks through piecing together the few bits of the course you remember (alongside some other waffle), when you're faced with a multiple choice question on the contraindications of Paracetamol, you either have that specific piece of information stored in your brain or you don't. There is no room to really blag, only to make half-educated stabs at the questions. End of the day, you don't work your ass off to revise for that thing, you probably won't pass - first, second, or third sit.

    That said, I personally found the pre-reg exam I took to be a little on the unfair side. We were questioned about things excluded from the syllabus in the closed book and asked about material brazenly outside of our reference sources for the open; while good exam technique meant my answer to these questions was simply putting 'C' and moving on, I can imagine how someone might have been seriously thrown by these questions popping out of nowhere.
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    (Original post by FallenPetal)
    I've previously looked into GPhC pass rates, and I think it's normal for them to drop between July and September; the latter month tends to have a higher proportion of first sits, so you would expect to see a higher pass rate. While 95% - 40% is a rather jarring drop, I believe it follows the general trend.

    As to why September sittings are lower than July? Dunno. But I will say this: The pre-reg exam is a very different beast to Pharmacy exams, in that you can't get through it on a wing and a prayer. It's not like sitting down and writing an essay on the metabolism of Paracetamol, where you can scrape enough marks through piecing together the few bits of the course you remember (alongside some other waffle), when you're faced with a multiple choice question on the contraindications of Paracetamol, you either have that specific piece of information stored in your brain or you don't. There is no room to really blag, only to make half-educated stabs at the questions. End of the day, you don't work your ass off to revise for that thing, you probably won't pass - first, second, or third sit.

    That said, I personally found the pre-reg exam I took to be a little on the unfair side. We were questioned about things excluded from the syllabus in the closed book and asked about material brazenly outside of our reference sources for the open; while good exam technique meant my answer to these questions was simply putting 'C' and moving on, I can imagine how someone might have been seriously thrown by these questions popping out of nowhere.
    I also have a feeling that the pre reg exam favours hospital pre regs ( stats show hosp pre regs do way better than community pre regs) and also students from the top 6/7 ranked unis. Are we missing a trick here and not realising that every student does not have an equal chance of doing this exam?

    Even the pharmacist who i work with thinks having a pre reg exam is a joke and not needed. He said passing the degree exams is enough and working for a year and getting signed off by your supervisor as competent is more than enough.
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    (Original post by sachinisgod)
    I also have a feeling that the pre reg exam favours hospital pre regs ( stats show hosp pre regs do way better than community pre regs) and also students from the top 6/7 ranked unis. Are we missing a trick here and not realising that every student does not have an equal chance of doing this exam?

    Even the pharmacist who i work with thinks having a pre reg exam is a joke and not needed. He said passing the degree exams is enough and working for a year and getting signed off by your supervisor as competent is more than enough.
    I agree with you. Unfortunately it seems not every student has an equal chance of passing the pre-reg exam. The school I attend had the worst pass rate in the country this year, to be fair it doesn't surprise me at all.



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    (Original post by velvetsky)
    I agree with you. Unfortunately it seems not every student has an equal chance of passing the pre-reg exam. The school I attend had the worst pass rate in the country this year, to be fair it doesn't surprise me at all.



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    Exactly! Lets take medicine for example. Oxbridge having a requirement of at least A*A*A to be considered and EVERY other med school has a requirement NO LESS than AAA. So the calibre of med students entering in term of GCSE/A Level grades are almost the same.

    Then you have pharmacy schools and top ranked ones like Bath,Cardiff, Notts, UCL all have minimum requirements in the range of AAA-AAB on an average. and then you have rubbish ranked unis like Bradford, Kingston, Wolves etc take students on in clearing with B's, C's and even D's in some instances just to FILL their courses. No wonder the quality of students who start Pharmacy varies across the country and thats why you have unis such as these with a lower pass rate in pre reg exams ( compared to the top ranked ones) because the students originally were NOT CUT OUT to commence a hard science subject like Pharmacy.

    The pharmacy schools only care about maximising their revenues, They dont give two tosses about students and their future careers or employability
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    (Original post by sachinisgod)
    Exactly! Lets take medicine for example. Oxbridge having a requirement of at least A*A*A to be considered and EVERY other med school has a requirement NO LESS than AAA. So the calibre of med students entering in term of GCSE/A Level grades are almost the same.

    Then you have pharmacy schools and top ranked ones like Bath,Cardiff, Notts, UCL all have minimum requirements in the range of AAA-AAB on an average. and then you have rubbish ranked unis like Bradford, Kingston, Wolves etc take students on in clearing with B's, C's and even D's in some instances just to FILL their courses. No wonder the quality of students who start Pharmacy varies across the country and thats why you have unis such as these with a lower pass rate in pre reg exams ( compared to the top ranked ones) because the students originally were NOT CUT OUT to commence a hard science subject like Pharmacy.

    The pharmacy schools only care about maximising their revenues, They dont give two tosses about students and their future careers or employability


    This is totally true! And, I think, very unfair on the student, basically rob them of 50k even though they aren't capable and after 3 pre-reg exam failures, that's it! Finished. Might just as well done a 3 yr biochem or pharmacology degree and saved 9k.

    So, after 4 yrs, 4 very hard yrs!...... Just get everyone a pre-reg, anywhere, hence 100% employed at 6 months , great for the stats!
    Shame that the money is rubbish and the same starting salary, on qualifying, of 25k a yr as in Mid-90s !
    Anyone who starts pharmacy these days with a view to splashing out £50k on doing Community needs a session with a shrink!!
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    Is anyone on that thread of eager-beaver 6th formers, 'Pharmacy 2017 entry' doing any actual research into community pharmacy? Or are they all going to be in the 30% that work in hospital and "with" GPs ! Ha !
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    (Original post by crazy.chemist)
    Is anyone on that thread of eager-beaver 6th formers, 'Pharmacy 2017 entry' doing any actual research into community pharmacy? Or are they all going to be in the 30% that work in hospital and "with" GPs ! Ha !
    They are delusional teenagers tbh. They have no idea what they are going to face in 4 years time.
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    Also the College of Optoms are having a posh graduation ceremony in London for the recently qualified pre regs to welcome them into the profession.

    Where is this level of appreciation for pharmacy pre regs who qualify? Shows that we are churned out by the bucketloads just to be treated as box checkers in shops?
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    12% pharmacy cuts starting next month. Goodbye pay rise next year!!
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    (Original post by sachinisgod)
    They are delusional teenagers tbh. They have no idea what they are going to face in 4 years time.
    I agree. And going in through Clearing with CCD or even CDD as I heard one person got in with, they are going to find a pharmacy degree VERY HARD. This is why the pre-reg exam is being found so hard by so many. Because they can't cope and I hate to say this, are not clever enough.
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    pharmacy is dying people you need to realise. it was an acheivement when my dad studied it in thelate 70's/early 80's when only a small part of the population went to uni, so many pre reg jobs going. now it is so oversaturated. pushy asian parents try to chaperone their kids who arent good enough for medicine or dentistry into pharmacy, still thinking that it has the status, salary and respect it did back then. these are often the asian parents who didnt go to uni themselves, and of course they will be misinformed or have a warped ideal from a family friend who is a pharmacist or someone they know off. its easy to get swept along by their rhetoric but you need to conduct your own research and face the facts that unfortuantely pharmacy is a dying profession in this country and definitely isnt on a par with what it used to be. pharmacists are under appreciated, overworked and underpaid (compared to back in the day).
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    (Original post by neal95)
    pharmacy is dying people you need to realise. it was an acheivement when my dad studied it in thelate 70's/early 80's when only a small part of the population went to uni, so many pre reg jobs going. now it is so oversaturated. pushy asian parents try to chaperone their kids who arent good enough for medicine or dentistry into pharmacy, still thinking that it has the status, salary and respect it did back then. these are often the asian parents who didnt go to uni themselves, and of course they will be misinformed or have a warped ideal from a family friend who is a pharmacist or someone they know off. its easy to get swept along by their rhetoric but you need to conduct your own research and face the facts that unfortuantely pharmacy is a dying profession in this country and definitely isnt on a par with what it used to be. pharmacists are under appreciated, overworked and underpaid (compared to back in the day).
    I disagree with some of the things you've said. Yes, pharmacy may not be as great as it once was before but research shows that the competition to get into a pharmacy school is higher compared to before. This is because more pharmacist are taking up bigger responsibilities like working alongside the GP and the range of specialty roles of senior pharmacist in hospitals is increasing every day. And therefore the role of some pharmacist is becoming more clinical. The pay isn't as great but that is down to the nhs cuts and the government, which has affected the nurses, midwives and doctors too. The Asian parents are not pushy, they just want what is best for their kids and I have know people who have become pharmacist and went on to study medicine later on. Most of the parents are well informed about how pharmacy is at the moment because of the extended family relations you see in a lot of asian families. Its very typical to find that they have 3 doctors, 2 optician, a few pharmacists in their family.
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    (Original post by Peace4life)
    I disagree with some of the things you've said. Yes, pharmacy may not be as great as it once was before but research shows that the competition to get into a pharmacy school is higher compared to before. This is because more pharmacist are taking up bigger responsibilities like working alongside the GP and the range of specialty roles of senior pharmacist in hospitals is increasing every day. And therefore the role of some pharmacist is becoming more clinical. The pay isn't as great but that is down to the nhs cuts and the government, which has affected the nurses, midwives and doctors too. The Asian parents are not pushy, they just want what is best for their kids and I have know people who have become pharmacist and went on to study medicine later on. Most of the parents are well informed about how pharmacy is at the moment because of the extended family relations you see in a lot of asian families. Its very typical to find that they have 3 doctors, 2 optician, a few pharmacists in their family.
    Are you a pharmacist?
    If pharmacy is so wonderful, why are you applying for graduate entry medicine?
    I think Neal95 is correct. Sorry.
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    (Original post by crazy.chemist)
    Are you a pharmacist?
    If pharmacy is so wonderful, why are you applying for graduate entry medicine?
    I think Neal95 is correct. Sorry.
    Pharmacy is a profession a lot of people would die for. Being a pharmacist is still respected by a lot of people. I just never really had a passion for pharmacy right from the start. I've always had a passion in medicine . So that's why I'm applying to med school. Still gonna practice as a pharmacist and make money that way to fund it.
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    (Original post by Peace4life)
    Pharmacy is a profession a lot of people would die for. Being a pharmacist is still respected by a lot of people. I just never really had a passion for pharmacy right from the start. I've always had a passion in medicine . So that's why I'm applying to med school. Still gonna practice as a pharmacist and make money that way to fund it.
    Well good luck, but perhaps don't post about how it's all OK, when it isn't.
    Coming from/studying in an area with a lot of asians, I feel what Neal95 says is very true, from my experience at pharmacy school.
    But I'm glad that you are also exiting the "profession" too, or trying to.
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    The supply of pharmacy students is too high and the demand for them will become less and less as pharmacists are increasingly replaced by 'robots'. Humans should be doing more jobs in research and development and less in dispensing.

    You're right there needs to be a more directed and focused push for this with everyone aware of the situation, rather than having lots of graduates with a degree they don't want due to misinformation and a lack of structure.
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    The supply of pharmacy students is too high and the demand for them will become less and less as pharmacists are increasingly replaced by 'robots'. Humans should be doing more jobs in research and development and less in dispensing.

    You're right there needs to be a more directed and focused push for this with everyone aware of the situation, rather than having lots of graduates with a degree they don't want due to misinformation and a lack of structure.
    You don't really get to see what is happening in the profession until you're 2/3 years into the course. Frankly, you don't really care at 17/18 years old about demand, supply, locum rates etc, all that is too far for you to imagine. I'm in 3rd year and my views have changed completely from sixth form/1st year. Everyone really needs to be aware of the reality right from the application process as you said. However, at that age you're not really interested to say the least, you can't understand the effects of the above I've mentioned.

    This won't be an easy fix. It's not something we can fix in 3 years or 5 years because there are so many contributing factors. It doesn't help when leading members of the profession are shying away from the problem. We had a talk from one of the big guys whose last name starts with S and rhymes with pony. When he was asked how we could solve the problem of over supply & pre-reg place numbers he didn't address the question directly. He beat around the bush, went off a tangent and started talking about under utilisation of pharmacists. Now how do we solve the problem if leaders of the profession don't want to acknowledge there is a problem?. It doesn't make sense.



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    (Original post by velvetsky)
    You don't really get to see what is happening in the profession until you're 2/3 years into the course. Frankly, you don't really care at 17/18 years old about demand, supply, locum rates etc, all that is too far for you to imagine. I'm in 3rd year and my views have changed completely from sixth form/1st year. Everyone really needs to be aware of the reality right from the application process as you said. However, at that age you're not really interested to say the least, you can't understand the effects of the above I've mentioned.

    This won't be an easy fix. It's not something we can fix in 3 years or 5 years because there are so many contributing factors. It doesn't help when leading members of the profession are shying away from the problem. We had a talk from one of the big guys whose last name starts with S and rhymes with pony. When he was asked how we could solve the problem of over supply & pre-reg place numbers he didn't address the question directly. He beat around the bush, went off a tangent and started talking about under utilisation of pharmacists. Now how do we solve the problem if leaders of the profession don't want to acknowledge there is a problem?. It doesn't make sense.
    The solution is fairly simple: encouraging prospective students who are interested in pursuing pharmacological research or going into the pharma business, rather than attracting students like the OP whose primary motivation is having a comfortable middle-class lifestyle as a pharmacist. The latter option has been shown to be unsustainable which is why there have been cuts, and it should no longer be the focus of pharmacy degrees.
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    [QUOTE=velvetsky;68769814]You don't really get to see what is happening in the profession until you're 2/3 years into the course. Frankly, you don't really care at 17/18 years old about demand, supply, locum rates etc, all that is too far for you to imagine. I'm in 3rd year and my views have changed completely from sixth form/1st year. Everyone really needs to be aware of the reality right from the application process as you said. However, at that age you're not really interested to say the least, you can't understand the effects of the above I've mentioned.

    This won't be an easy fix. It's not something we can fix in 3 years or 5 years because there are so many contributing factors. It doesn't help when leading members of the profession are shying away from the problem. We had a talk from one of the big guys whose last name starts with S and rhymes with pony. When he was asked how we could solve the problem of over supply & pre-reg place numbers he didn't address the question directly. He beat around the bush, went off a tangent and started talking about under utilisation of pharmacists. Now how do we solve the problem if leaders of the profession don't want to acknowledge there is a problem?. It doesn't make sense.


    You make a very good point there.

    And yes, those at the top have absolutely no answers. Pharmacy is, and always has been, a very weak and wet 'profession'.

    One of the possible solutions is an integrated pre-reg, like the Bradford sandwich course, then the pharmacy schools would only be able to take on the number of students they could guarantee a training place for. However, this would probably lead to 5 yrs of fees not 4.

    That explains why the OP and people like me, have come on here to try and encourage everyone to do some research before you jump into the degree.




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