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    (Original post by RealisticPharm)
    I'm not being that malicious, I am concerned that he might be a juvenile solvent abuser. I said what I said in a flippant way, but this was in the hope that I would plant the idea in his head about stopping in a way that a heartfelt plea would never have done.
    Explain this.

    http://www.ppruk.com/careers/32078/i...urham-Vr-06749
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    Do you know what a Superintendent Pharmacist is? The higher salary is linked to the 'Superintendent' bit.
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    (Original post by sachinisgod)
    Yep and its even going to get worse, If you are happy with a 45 hour week and end up realistically only getting £30-35K for the rest of the life (taking into account future funding cuts/pharmacy closures/ slashed locum rates) then by all means stay in Pharmacy.

    But any sane A level student or even a pharmacy student has the time to decide to do something else in their life. True Mpharm graduates have spent £40K on a degree for a profession which is rapidly declining, but can use that piece of paper to diversify and move onto non pharmacy roles. The pharmacy staff at unis will not tell you this information and want to churn out pharmacist after pharmacist to effectively be another robot in multiples checking boxes and bagging up for the rest of their life.
    Thank God! I was getting worried for a while that Universities must be really forcing the 'career in Pharmacy' angle and misleading another generation of students. They've got no incentive to change their current approach to developing the careers of Pharmacy graduates - or to develop new ties with industry, or have any input into the profession. So long as a school can fill a course by pointing to some hugely out of date figures, focus exclusively on 'starting salary', pretend that Pharmacists future role will be 'services, clinical....you know uh consultations?' and humour ever applicant about 'maybe going into industry' then they wont change. They'll just keep taking the money, and chucking you out onto the job market.

    The chap here gets it, and reminds me of the students I went to University with. Everyone here burying their heads in the sand because someone who actually does the job is suggesting you think more broadly about your career, seemingly ignoring the fact that those coming up to graduation are probably in the best position of anyone. I'm 5 years out, I've got commitments, and a standard of living to maintain. I can't move anywhere in the country, as any move would have to accommodate more than just my career. It's the same story for all of my friends who graduated when I did, making the change now 5 years in was tougher than it needed to be. If you've got drive and ambition to want more for yourself, and the confidence to go for it then you don't need to be at the mercy of a failing profession. Sachinisgod is probably going to establish the new path for Pharmacists - by using the MPharm more broadly and taking on roles that Pharmacists traditionally haven't touched.

    I'm not sure what 'neldee95' thinks they're doing today that they weren't doing a mere 5 years ago, but I suspect she's missing the point. I was taught all of the services and consultation skills, did many an OSCE because that was going to be an essential skill for Pharmacists. Well 5 years later and it's not, in fact the range of services offered in most CCGs is much smaller than in the PCT days.

    I suppose the cross section here does seem to be more engineers who are having trouble finding a job, with disappointingly few Pharmacists. Pharmacy is a AAA course these days, students applying with these grades shouldn't be comparing their future to 'the average salary', or even contemplating a career where you start and finish on the same amount and spend your days doing the same role. I hate to say it because I already get spoken to like I'm ancient for being maybe 6 years older, but Sachinisgod seems to understand the real world, that you don't want to settle for a shade better than average, and that anyone worth having in your profession will keep striving for more, not content themselves with being in the top 45% at graduation and staying there. Once you've got something, it's not enough after a while. You will not have a fulfilling career earning the same money and doing the same job for 35 years, and no one will ever respect you or your degree if you don't snap out of it. Yeah fingers crossed for the GP Prescriber scheme, but there's way more Pharmacy graduates than are ever going to be able to get on that. I suspect people with the attitude like Sachin here will be yet another blow to community Pharmacy, perhaps the biggest one. If the brightest and most driven students from the better schools leave the profession altogether, then those going in to community will be of a lower average quality than today. I really hope this next generation of graduates are successful in having the MPharm recognised outside of a career in Boots. No doubt they've got their work cut out for them, but at least some people realise they're better than the role that will await them if they do nothing.
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    (Original post by RealisticPharm)
    Do you know what a Superintendent Pharmacist is? The higher salary is linked to the 'Superintendent' bit.
    What about this? Hitting 45-55k a few years out of uni isn't so bad is it?

    http://www.ppruk.com/careers/31795/i...shire-Vr-06345
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    (Original post by RealisticPharm)
    Thank God! I was getting worried for a while that Universities must be really forcing the 'career in Pharmacy' angle and misleading another generation of students. They've got no incentive to change their current approach to developing the careers of Pharmacy graduates - or to develop new ties with industry, or have any input into the profession. So long as a school can fill a course by pointing to some hugely out of date figures, focus exclusively on 'starting salary', pretend that Pharmacists future role will be 'services, clinical....you know uh consultations?' and humour ever applicant about 'maybe going into industry' then they wont change. They'll just keep taking the money, and chucking you out onto the job market.

    The chap here gets it, and reminds me of the students I went to University with. Everyone here burying their heads in the sand because someone who actually does the job is suggesting you think more broadly about your career, seemingly ignoring the fact that those coming up to graduation are probably in the best position of anyone. I'm 5 years out, I've got commitments, and a standard of living to maintain. I can't move anywhere in the country, as any move would have to accommodate more than just my career. It's the same story for all of my friends who graduated when I did, making the change now 5 years in was tougher than it needed to be. If you've got drive and ambition to want more for yourself, and the confidence to go for it then you don't need to be at the mercy of a failing profession. Sachinisgod is probably going to establish the new path for Pharmacists - by using the MPharm more broadly and taking on roles that Pharmacists traditionally haven't touched.

    I'm not sure what 'neldee95' thinks they're doing today that they weren't doing a mere 5 years ago, but I suspect she's missing the point. I was taught all of the services and consultation skills, did many an OSCE because that was going to be an essential skill for Pharmacists. Well 5 years later and it's not, in fact the range of services offered in most CCGs is much smaller than in the PCT days.

    I suppose the cross section here does seem to be more engineers who are having trouble finding a job, with disappointingly few Pharmacists. Pharmacy is a AAA course these days, students applying with these grades shouldn't be comparing their future to 'the average salary', or even contemplating a career where you start and finish on the same amount and spend your days doing the same role. I hate to say it because I already get spoken to like I'm ancient for being maybe 6 years older, but Sachinisgod seems to understand the real world, that you don't want to settle for a shade better than average, and that anyone worth having in your profession will keep striving for more, not content themselves with being in the top 45% at graduation and staying there. Once you've got something, it's not enough after a while. You will not have a fulfilling career earning the same money and doing the same job for 35 years, and no one will ever respect you or your degree if you don't snap out of it. Yeah fingers crossed for the GP Prescriber scheme, but there's way more Pharmacy graduates than are ever going to be able to get on that. I suspect people with the attitude like Sachin here will be yet another blow to community Pharmacy, perhaps the biggest one. If the brightest and most driven students from the better schools leave the profession altogether, then those going in to community will be of a lower average quality than today. I really hope this next generation of graduates are successful in having the MPharm recognised outside of a career in Boots. No doubt they've got their work cut out for them, but at least some people realise they're better than the role that will await them if they do nothing.
    Didn't you mention that the MPharm is not respected by HR managers earlier for it it to be used for graduate schemes?
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    (Original post by Youngman2012)
    Didn't you mention that the MPharm is not respected by HR managers earlier for it it to be used for graduate schemes?
    Yup.

    Hence why I say

    establish the new path for Pharmacists
    I really hope this next generation of graduates are successful in having the MPharm recognised outside of a career in Boots
    No doubt they've got their work cut out for them
    It's primarily the attitude of Sachinisgod that makes him stand out. Everyone thus far seemed to have a view of 'Ah well community ain't so bad' and if it goes to the dogs then 'I'll probably go to industry', when it doesn't work like that. There is no easy alternative path, and if you don't set your sights on it now then you're going to get caught out - the chap inspires confidence as he seems to be talking confidently about his future plans, and knows specific details. The MPharm isn't highly regarded by recruiters because traditionally they didn't see many.

    Pharmacists are going to have to do something else in the future because there may not be any Pharmacies for them to work in. We've ended up with a degree which isn't well recognised outside of our profession, and within it we're treated as units of production, with no professional input into anything. Whoever goes into these new industries will whether they want to or not, be demonstrating to these new industries the skills required to be awarded an MPharm.
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    Any say on this?

    This salary does take over 10-20 years in other industries (Accounting, I.T.)
    Hitting 45-55k a few years out of uni isn't so bad is it? http://www.ppruk.com/careers/31795/i...shire-Vr-06345
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    (Original post by Youngman2012)
    Any say on this?

    This salary does take over 10-20 years in other industries (Accounting, I.T.)
    Hitting 45-55k a few years out of uni isn't so bad is it? http://www.ppruk.com/careers/31795/i...shire-Vr-06345
    You can hit £45-50k in 3 years of graduating uni in accounting, same goes for technology.

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    You can hit £45-50k in 3 years of graduating uni in accounting, same goes for technology.

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    On average probably not. More like starting 20k, then around 30k after 3 years.
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    (Original post by Youngman2012)
    On average probably not. More like starting 20k, then around 30k after 3 years.
    One job posting isn't the 'average' of what pharmacists are getting either...

    Big4 Audit schemes start on £28-30k (in London) then bump up to £45k after 3 years (upon qualification). Or alternatively, people leave to industry with pay packets of £50-60k. Good tech companies regularly pay £30-35k starting, with scope to break £50k in 3-4 years.

    So yes, it's possible. If you're going to compare averages, do so but don't use a single job posting that is an exception of what the average pharmacist gets then refer to what the 'average' IT/Accounting worker gets. It doesn't make sense, in the slightest.

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    One job posting isn't the 'average' of what pharmacists are getting either...

    Big4 Audit schemes start on £28-30k (in London) then bump up to £45k after 3 years (upon qualification). Or alternatively, people leave to industry with pay packets of £50-60k. Good tech companies regularly pay £30-35k starting, with scope to break £50k in 3-4 years.

    So yes, it's possible. If you're going to compare averages, do so but don't use a single job posting that is an exception of what the average pharmacist gets then refer to what the 'average' IT/Accounting worker gets. It doesn't make sense, in the slightest.

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    Exactly. I don't understand why people obsess over starting salaries when progression is far more important...
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    One job posting isn't the 'average' of what pharmacists are getting either...

    Big4 Audit schemes start on £28-30k (in London) then bump up to £45k after 3 years (upon qualification). Or alternatively, people leave to industry with pay packets of £50-60k. Good tech companies regularly pay £30-35k starting, with scope to break £50k in 3-4 years.

    So yes, it's possible. If you're going to compare averages, do so but don't use a single job posting that is an exception of what the average pharmacist gets then refer to what the 'average' IT/Accounting worker gets. It doesn't make sense, in the slightest.

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    So where would a typical computer scientist/engineer/accountant be on in 10-20 years? Would they keep progressing to 100k working for a company?
    And average pharmacists are actually making 35-40k (RealisticPharm and his wife) and pharmacy mangers are making 40-50k so it's not based on one vacancy.

    You didn't take into account the many I.T/accountancy graduates unemployed or working in low paid non-relevant jobs.
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    (Original post by Youngman2012)
    So where would a typical computer scientist/engineer/accountant be on in 10-20 years? Would they keep progressing to 100k working for a company?
    And average pharmacists are actually making 35-40k (Pharmanaut and his wife) and pharmacy mangers are making 40-50k so it's not based on one vacancy.
    No, the cap for Software Engineers in the UK is around £70-80k (on average - Google for example pay that including stock grants and bonuses starting) in London - £50-60k outside of London, those in management definitely can break the £100k barrier. Accounting partners (12-15 years later) will be on well in excess of £100k in London, but only just a bit more than £100k outside of London.

    Well, it is because you used it as an example of how much you can make in 3 years whilst downplaying how much other fields pay at the right company.

    Ultimately, if you get the right gig at the right company you will make a lot of money.

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    (Original post by RealisticPharm)
    Yup.

    Hence why I say







    It's primarily the attitude of Sachinisgod that makes him stand out. Everyone thus far seemed to have a view of 'Ah well community ain't so bad' and if it goes to the dogs then 'I'll probably go to industry', when it doesn't work like that. There is no easy alternative path, and if you don't set your sights on it now then you're going to get caught out - the chap inspires confidence as he seems to be talking confidently about his future plans, and knows specific details. The MPharm isn't highly regarded by recruiters because traditionally they didn't see many.

    Pharmacists are going to have to do something else in the future because there may not be any Pharmacies for them to work in. We've ended up with a degree which isn't well recognised outside of our profession, and within it we're treated as units of production, with no professional input into anything. Whoever goes into these new industries will whether they want to or not, be demonstrating to these new industries the skills required to be awarded an MPharm.
    Are you currently working in community RealisticPharm ?
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    (Original post by neldee95)
    Every professional degree is broad. Medicine, pharmacy etc. All broad. A person who studies chemistry will know more chemistry than a person who studied pharmacy or chemical engineering, which have other components. Just like a microbiologist will know more about the different microbes than medics. Does this make microbiology a better course? No. You are trying to discourage people from applying from a saturated course and that is fine, however, do not demerit the intensity of the course. I know how hard I struggle to programme my brain from pharmaceutical chemistry one minute to pharmacy practice or pharmacology the next.

    I do not personally believe pharmacologists have more knowledge than pharmacist though and this is me speaking from experience. I had all of my first year units(except the pharmacy practice one) and most of my second year units with pharmacology students. Although I have no lectures with them this third year, I believe this is because they have to be taught everything in order to graduate this year whereas we have an extra year so the uni can afford to pace our learning. But I do not think there is anything they can do that I cannot.

    In sixth form, I could not decide between pharmacy and chemistry thus I spoke to the careers adviser. She advised pharmacy as it is quite broad and I could then go on to specialise in chemistry or pharmacology or whatever I wanted to afterwards. I do not regret my choice one bit however, I do not see myself being a pharmacist for more than 5 years tops. The aspect I particularly agree with is the opening of new pharmacy schools, it grindsssssss my bones. Anyway, I am just trying to be optimistic for the future, or at least by the time I graduate, things would not be as bad. Luckily, I started pharmacy school before three new unis opened so I can hopefully, fulfil my 5 year plan and keep it moving before things get much worse.

    I like you, do not see myself being a pharmacist for more than 5 years. I am currently a 2nd year and whilst I do enjoy what I learn & the whole experience I don't think I will be in the profession in my 30s. I am trying to stay focused, and really do look forward to graduating and moving forward.
    I must say I disagree that a pharmacist will have *more* knowledge than a pharmacologist.A pharmacologist's knowledge will be deeper because pharmacology is a core subject.
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    (Original post by Youngman2012)
    So where would a typical computer scientist/engineer/accountant be on in 10-20 years? Would they keep progressing to 100k working for a company?
    And average pharmacists are actually making 35-40k (RealisticPharm and his wife) and pharmacy mangers are making 40-50k so it's not based on one vacancy.

    You didn't take into account the many I.T/accountancy graduates unemployed or working in low paid non-relevant jobs.
    mr littlebigman
    in summary all your posts are this :
    "dont to pharmacy kid. i live in the real world. im a pharmacist. dont do it"
    "should i do accountancy"
    "NO"
    "WHY?"
    ", trust me i live in the real world!!!!!"
    "should i do chemistry or comuter science"
    "NO i live in the real world. i have done pharmacy for 20 years. i am experienced. LISTEN TO MEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
    "what degree shoud i do"
    "APPLY TO ALDI!!!!!! i live in the real world"
    "so why are you still working as a pharmacist"
    "because.... I LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD"
    "why dont you work in aldi?"
    "i live in the real world. you'll understand in 20 years boy"

    this basically sums it up.

    helpful posts
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    (Original post by kabolin)
    mr littlebigman
    in summary all your posts are this :
    "dont to pharmacy kid. i live in the real world. im a pharmacist. dont do it"
    "should i do accountancy"
    "NO"
    "WHY?"
    ", trust me i live in the real world!!!!!"
    "should i do chemistry or comuter science"
    "NO i live in the real world. i have done pharmacy for 20 years. i am experienced. LISTEN TO MEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
    "what degree shoud i do"
    "APPLY TO ALDI!!!!!! i live in the real world"
    "so why are you still working as a pharmacist"
    "because.... I LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD"
    "why dont you work in aldi?"
    "i live in the real world. you'll understand in 20 years boy"

    this basically sums it up.

    helpful posts
    looooooool

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    (Original post by kabolin)
    mr littlebigman
    in summary all your posts are this :
    "dont to pharmacy kid. i live in the real world. im a pharmacist. dont do it"
    "should i do accountancy"
    "NO"
    "WHY?"
    ", trust me i live in the real world!!!!!"
    "should i do chemistry or comuter science"
    "NO i live in the real world. i have done pharmacy for 20 years. i am experienced. LISTEN TO MEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
    "what degree shoud i do"
    "APPLY TO ALDI!!!!!! i live in the real world"
    "so why are you still working as a pharmacist"
    "because.... I LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD"
    "why dont you work in aldi?"
    "i live in the real world. you'll understand in 20 years boy"

    this basically sums it up.

    helpful posts
    oh shut up
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    (Original post by sachinisgod)
    Im a final year MPharm and thinking of applying to management consulting or management schemes at GSK/ AstraZenca after my pre reg.

    I really have no time for a crap retail pharmacist life with lowering salaries and bad working conditions.

    What people do not realise is that a masters in pharmacy is a very good degree to do anything else. There is absolutely no requirement to become a pharmacist after doing MPharm.

    Loads of engineers and CS graduates work in banks/IB/Law/Retail so its all about transferable skills.

    Yes medics, dentists and optoms on the whole mostly work in their professions ONLY because they have a good professional representation and their financial compensation along with career prospects helps them. Pharmacists definitely DO NOT fall in this category.
    Couldn't agree with you more. I hope I'm as well acknowledged & wise as you when I get to 4th year. Whilst I enjoy (some of) what I learn I know for a fact that I will not be in the profession for more than 10 years.

    I had a week community placement last semester & I finished it in pain.
    The locum I had on one of the days broke my heart.She looked so worn out, kept disappearing to the toilet and to the the consultation room bless her heart. Last year I couldn't finish my 6 week community summer placement, after a few weeks I had had enough of the same repetitive routine.9 hours in a hot, stuffy, stinking dispensary stroking boxes of medication wasnt doing it for me plus the manager/pharmacist made me feel like a piece of crap. She was refusing to turn on the air conditioning so she could save the company money :/. I could feel my make up melting off my face in that dispensary

    I wasn't aware of the current situation until the end of last year when I started doing my research. I remember a community pharmacist on the pharmacy forum saying they hadn't had a pay rise in 8 years, with the cost of living so high everything is just difficult.Abs broke my heart . Once you open your eyes you'll definitely see what the experienced pharmacists are talking about. It's really sad that not many students are aware of this




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    (Original post by velvetsky)
    Couldn't agree with you more. I hope I'm as well acknowledged & wise as you when I get to 4th year. Whilst I enjoy (some of) what I learn I know for a fact that I will not be in the profession for more than 10 years.

    I had a week community placement last semester & I finished it in pain.
    The locum I had on one of the days broke my heart.She looked so worn out, kept disappearing to the toilet and to the the consultation room bless her heart. Last year I couldn't finish my 6 week community summer placement, after a few weeks I had had enough of the same repetitive routine.9 hours in a hot, stuffy, stinking dispensary stroking boxes of medication wasnt doing it for me plus the manager/pharmacist made me feel like a piece of crap. She was refusing to turn on the air conditioning so she could save the company money :/. I could feel my make up melting off my face in that dispensary

    I wasn't aware of the current situation until the end of last year when I started doing my research. I remember a community pharmacist on the pharmacy forum saying they hadn't had a pay rise in 8 years, with the cost of living so high everything is just difficult.Abs broke my heart . Once you open your eyes you'll definitely see what the experienced pharmacists are talking about. It's really sad that not many students are aware of this




    Posted from TSR Mobile
    10 years is still too many for that job to demotivate you for life. If you actually want to lead a good life, get out of the profession even earlier, It will be the best decision you will take.

    You have all the negative experiences and advice/options mentioned by me and everyone else, so not to act on it now would be unwise!

    But then again, you're own boss :hugs:
 
 
 
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