Poor Pharmacist Career Prospects? What do Universities tell you?

Yep. YOU are the expert on medicines, YOU are the one taking on the huge professional responsibility, and YOU are the one who has to interact with patients day-after-day.

Yet, it is the middle management who knows best about the safe and effective running of a Pharmacy, which apparently means churning out MUR after MUR on a skeleton staff.

I have had patients crying and angry on the phone with me, because once again, their delivery of medications has been missed - and there is nothing I can do, simply because there isn't enough time in the day or people on hand to fix a Pharmacy which is drastically behind and poorly organized.

...meanwhile, said manager is scowling over some spreadsheet which says we've spent too much already this year and need to sign more people up to service X, completely oblivious to the water pouring in from all sides; the ship is going down, and unfortunately, your captain is an incompetent buffoon who has only ever attended a two-day course on seamanship.

Also, this absolutely needs posting here: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/17/boots-regulator-investigation-general-pharmaceutical-council-nhs

It's not just us. It seems many pharmacists feel the same way, that Boots has transformed from a patient-focused company to a money-racketeering operation; it no longer exists to serve the healthcare needs of the community, it exists to line shareholders pockets. Can we really blame these bullied and broken-down people for speaking out? I certainly can't.

Probably took me on for my balanced approach to considering arguments... I presume you saw this in the news recently..?

http://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/gp-surgeries-could-employ-an-extra-1500-pharmacists-with-112m-investment/20201055.article

I completely agree with this. Boots has made a mockery of the entire system. I worked there last summer and all I could not believe what I saw/heard. It was so pitiful. Whilst working there, I almost lost my zeal to study pharmacy. They need to be seriously investigated. Everyone I know who works/has worked there complains about the same thing. You cannot drink water and drop the glass without hearing the work "Target" or "MUR". Apparently, things got worse when they merged with the brutal pharmacy chain across the Atlantic.
I worked in an independent this year, though busy, the conditions were by far better and the superintendent(who is actually a pharmacist) treated the pharmacy manager with respect. Patients were the priority and you could tell. I do not recall hearing the word "target", thankfully.

Pharmacy was so much better back in the day when there were only independents and small chains that were focused on actually building long term relationships with their patients and provide a decent service.

Boots and Lloyds and to an extent the supermarkets have ruined the purpose of pharmacy in this country and are only there to bleed the NHS funding pot dry but without actually giving incentives and good working conditions to their pharmacists to actually help patients!

Phew.

Some interesting posts. In 100% agreement with thread creator and others talking about their dissapointment with a career in pharmacy. I am one of those 'wannabe medics' someone referenced earlier (well, to be more accurate, I'm about to go into my final year of medicine, so maybe I can drop the 'wannabe' bit?). My career in brief

Graduated in 2011 from Scottish school of pharmacy
Pre-registration job in large well known Hospital in South of England
Locumed all over Scotland in community pharmacy for 2 years
Retired August 2014

My story: I picked pharmacy despite dire warnings from a family member who worked as a community pharmacist. Keep in mind this was 2006/7 UCAS application cycle. The writing was already on the wall for the profession but I just couldn't see it. I mean, how could you? It takes years of experience to gain the sort of insight into pharmacy my family member had, but I swatted her warnings off and accepted my offer anyway. Back in the day (2007), pharmacy was sold to us by the university as being the 'healthcare professional on the high street', like some sort of 'GP lite'. There was a LOT of talk about the rolling out of new pharmacy services in Scotland including CMS (equivalent to MUR in England), minor ailments services, our own version of NMS, and various other things I've already erased from memory. The degree itself was fine. I enjoyed the description of pharmacy academics being in their ivory towers. It is a fitting description. Even the Boots teacher practitioner didn't seem to have a clue what was actually happening in community pharmacy, or perhaps they weren't allowed or didn't want to tell us...

My first summer placement with Boots was a real shock to the system. I spent 8 weeks between my 2nd and 3rd year working in a semi deprived Scottish town. I remember being so enthusiastic on my first day. I spent about 5 weeks working on the tills before I was given my big break in the dispensary putting labels on boxes all day long. Anytime I tried to provide a clinical service I was either sneered at or ushered along to the next task on the never ending list. It wasn't long before I started absolutely hating the placement, the staff, and the customers. It was a wretched and relentless retail environment that didn't give two shits about patient care. I would have learned more clinical knowledge working in a chip shop.

I decided to cast aside my Boots experience as a 'one off'. Some of my friends had experienced what they claimed to be 'good placements'. I was sceptical, but decided to work for Lloyds the following summer alongside a 4 week hospital placement. Lloyds were better than Boots, but not significantly so. Clinical pharmacy in hospital was very different, and I can see why some people might like it, but it was cripplingly boring to me. You don't know true boredom until you dispense sterile water and hypodermic needles all day in the aseptic unit (scratch that, has anyone ever worked in medicines information? ****ing hell...).

I took a job in the south of England in what is a relatively prestigious teaching hospital. I loved the location but the job... my god, the job. There were days when I punched the wall in frustration before getting out of bed in the morning. The job drove me to the edge of my ability to tolerate pharmacy. It was at this point I put my semi formed preparations to exit pharmacy into action and applied to medical school. I could go into so much more detail about my pre-registration year and how much I disliked it, but this post is becoming tiresome, even for me, to write. I'll cut this part short and say pharmacy was definitely not for me. However, I would like to add that hospital pharmacy is probably a very good job for a great many people. If you're clinically minded and want to be a pharmacist, try your hardest to get a job in hospital. It's the only way you will put what you have learned at university into practice.

What about locuming in community? I spent 2 years worth of holidays including 3.5 month long summers working 40-50 hour weeks across the west of Scotland for a variety of companies including Boots, Morrisons, and lots of smaller chains or independents. In the brief time I spent working, the hourly rate dropped from £22.50 during the week to £20.00. Weekend rates stagnated at around £21.00 per hour and there was a dramatic drop off in the volume of shifts available throughout the west of Scotland. There are a few things that should alarm prospective pharmacists about this vignette

1) I'm reliably informed that Scottish locum rates are usually higher than elsewhere in the UK. I've heard stories of pharmacists working for less than £15 an hour. To put that into perspective, you are earning only a few £ more than a floor manager in a small clothing store for being the responsible pharmacist and working seriously hard for your cash

2) I dread to think what the locum rates are like nowadays but if they can fall by more than 10% in 2 years christ knows where they will be in 5-10 years time

3) There is a massive influx of EU pharmacists who will work for much less than you. Couple this with the surge in new pharmacy graduates from newer schools and you have a recipe for a disastrous job market

Anyway, I had more to write, but this has become quite long. If you've read all of this, good for you, I hope my message has been clear(ish). If you've skipped to the end my message is simple. There are numerous better paid jobs with greater job satisfaction out there compared with community pharmacy. For the dedicated few, hospital pharmacy is a reasonable route. For those stuck in pharmacy and disillusioned, don't lose hope! The degree still has some currency for now to go and do something else (academic or otherwise), but don't delay! I can't see a very bright future for pharmacy unless some drastic changes are made within the stakeholder organisations. I'd be very concerned about actually having a job in 20 years time never mind what it might actually consist of.

Phew.

Nice to read about your journey so far. What is happening in pharmacy is driving good candidates away from the profession in my opinion. At my university the fourth years who managed to secure pre-reg places at the most competitive hospitals in the country (the 3 of them) will not be practising after pre-reg.

LOL so what are they planning to do afterwards?

Can I ask, how do you think the prospects compare between doctors and pharmacists, what with the Government trying to shaft us both in different ways?

Nice to read about your journey so far. What is happening in pharmacy is driving good candidates away from the profession in my opinion. At my university the fourth years who managed to secure pre-reg places at the most competitive hospitals in the country (the 3 of them) will not be practising after pre-reg.

In my opinion, there are 3 key reasons why doctors won't ever be treated as badly as community pharmacists currently are or will be in future.

I agree with all three of those - very well put. I think it's further compounded by just how scattered we are as a profession. Worryingly, there is a lack of a common interest: If Boots starts bullying their Pharmacist workforce to meet targets, why would a Lloyd's pharmacist need to intervene? That's a problem with Boots, not the profession as a whole - and why would should a hospital pharmacist stick their oars into what is essentially a private company? In turn, when the seven-day NHS kicks in, why should the Boots Pharmacist risk invoking the wrath of middle-management by striking in solidarity? Why would the owner of an independant sacrifice a day's business, when things are already being tight enough as it is?

I mean, that isn't to say we don't care about eachother, but common interest just isn't there, and a very clear divide exists between those employed by the NHS and those employed in the private sector: Ultimately, businesses shouldn't have to pay for the government's mistakes, and the NHS shouldn't have to pay for businesses mistakes. Which is problematic, when both of them are simultaneously harming our profession, which - by extension - harms patients. You know, the exact thing we should be united over.

Sure, the tenured GP isn't hugely affected by what happens to junior doctors, but he understands what they are saying: These cuts aren't really about them, they are about the wellbeing of the public - as someone who is sworn into a profession that does no harm, he can see just how henious the seven-day NHS truly is.

And yeah, we are about the patients too, but somewhere down the line - between dealing with middle-management, funding cuts, and Jeremy Hunt - that message gets lost. We simply aren't united enough to incite any real change.

Bottom line, the BMA defends us in an effective and coordinated manner, and because of that, has very high membership rates

[Here because I saw the term "junior doctors"]

Wow, the BMA has really succeeded in changing its image! Until this contract, the BMA was one of the most sedentary unions there was. The pension reforms a few years back went through with a whimper, there have been no other action at all for years despite the drastic reforms to the profession. I can't find any numbers but pretty sure membership was way, way lower before the dispute. It all changed when they had one big thing to unite everyone against. It just takes one incident, one common enemy!

Re: locum rates - you've seen the new caps on doctor's locum rates I assume? £20 per hour is higher than the cap for FY1!

Your post was very interesting. My ex-pharmacist FY1 colleague was super-high earning before he dropped out to be a doctor so its easy to lose perspective. Hospital pharmacists are pretty damn hard working. I mean, nurses are obviously super busy a lot of the time but they also get quiet periods and of course mandatory breaks (plus have you seen nurses working a night shift? They have nothing to do must be so boring), but one thing you never see is a bored pharmacist!

Nurses don't work night shifts?