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    The majority of Israel's critics kept their mouth's shut until it became socially acceptable. This is self-righteous moral cowardice.

    However, Israel has lost the propaganda war because it shut down any criticism of it with cries of racism for decades, a mistake Muslims seem determined to repeat.

    None of this helps anyone, least of all Palestinians.
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    Also the conspiracy theories are nothing more than self-indulgent bullsh*t and dangerous Bullsh*t at that.

    http://thesatedire.com/business/anti...o-be-patented/
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    Anti-Zionism helps Palestine. :pal:
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Anti-Zionism helps Palestine. :pal:
    Define Zionism and I might agree. Supporting Hamas helps no one.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Anti-Zionism helps Palestine. :pal:
    Please elaborate.
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    OP sort of is right.


    Nobody can take the pro-Palestine movement seriously when they're driven by a bunch of racists who struggle to learn anything about the world which can't either be condensed into a facebook meme or a 10 minute conspiracy video on youtube, but that in itself does not undermine the point pro-Palestine advocates make.
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    (Original post by Longshot700)
    Not sure if this will contribute to the conversation but I just wanted to say Miss Palestine is really hot.
    I'm not sure either but it is a good sign that there is such a thing, aside from the cringe-worthy existence of such competitions.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    The opposition to the Zionist concept that Palestine is a literal homeland for Jewish people and opposition to it's brutal policies of cleansing, displacement and forceful relocation of inhabitants whose families have resided there for centuries, in fulfillment of said concept, is something that helps Palestinians.
    OK, I agree.

    Zionism is an unhelpful word that has been corrupted. That is why I asked. Israel has always been a homeland of Jews, however and all states are born out of blood shed and injustice. Israel has a right to exist as does Palestine.

    Much language against Israel is pure anti-semitism from people who should know better. The type of people that see nuance where it doesn't exist in other conversations but let their inner bigot loose regarding Israel.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Israel has never been a homeland for Jews. What we understand to be Israel, is a neologism that only came into existence in 1948.
    Jews have existed in the area for thousands of years. the Jewish state has existed since 1948.
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    So,just to be clear,criticism of Israel automatically means somebody is being antisemitic?
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    Jews have existed in the area for thousands of years. the Jewish state has existed since 1948.
    And the Arabs?
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    It's so sad when you hear stories of Palestinians,whose ancestors lived in parts of Israel and who have been displaced and their homes bulldozed because they are not seen as Israelis. I also hear that Israelis are not allowed to marry Palestinians. Talk about ethnic cleansing
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I haven't denied that Jews were and have had a presence in that part of the world.

    What I objected to was your rashly claimed assertion that "Israel was a homeland for the Jewish people".

    For 2000 years, it wasn't.
    If you want to quote me properly there is a button. I said it has been a homeland for Jews. That Jews have always been there.
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    OK, I agree.

    Zionism is an unhelpful word that has been corrupted. That is why I asked. Israel has always been a homeland of Jews, however and all states are born out of blood shed and injustice. Israel has a right to exist as does Palestine.

    Much language against Israel is pure anti-semitism from people who should know better. The type of people that see nuance where it doesn't exist in other conversations but let their inner bigot loose regarding Israel.
    It was known as Palestine for a long long time. The current Israel only came into existence in the 40's. And yes Jews did live in Palestine, but not the European Jews who migrated there after WW2, they can't just turn up and say it's theirs.

    It's been decades though, so they should be allowed have Israel, but they can't keep building these illegal settlements and taking away Palestinian land.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    So,just to be clear,criticism of Israel automatically means somebody is being antisemitic?
    Nope, I clearly said the opposite. Please re-read.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    It was known as Palestine for a long long time. The current Israel only came into existence in the 40's. And yes Jews did live in Palestine, but not the European Jews who migrated there after WW2, they can't just turn up and say it's theirs.

    It's been decades though, so they should be allowed have Israel, but they can't keep building these illegal settlements and taking away Palestinian land.
    I wholeheartedly agree with all that. This is a rational criticism of the Israeli state, not anti-semitism dressed up as political idealism.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    You said "Israel has been a homeland for Jews".

    If a Jew was to have said this in 1600, he would have been regarded as absolutely bonkers.

    How can an entity, which has not yet come into existence, be the homeland of someone?

    Does the current Israeli landmass equate to the same area of land as was the Kingdom of Israel some 3000 years back?

    Don't be so silly as to make rash statements.
    A home land for Jews, yes, not a homeland for THE Jews.

    The land existed, there were Jews there, it isn't that complicated. I didn't say that gives Israel the right to commit some of the horrors it has committed or that Israel as a state should have been created.

    Does the land mass of any country look the same as it did 3000 years ago?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    It's so sad when you hear stories of Palestinians,whose ancestors lived in parts of Israel and who have been displaced and their homes bulldozed because they are not seen as Israelis. I also hear that Israelis are not allowed to marry Palestinians. Talk about ethnic cleansing
    I could well be wrong on the details (haven't really looked at israeli history for a couple years), but from what I recall weren't the israelis quite willing to share Israel, up until the six-day war? From what I remember, the arab countries surrounding israel (egypt, jordan and syria) planned a military attack on israel, which israel pre-empted and blew them out of the water. That was what lead to the arabs being pushed out of Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip and parts of the Sinai?

    I just checked and that was the case. The UN suggested a partition of the land in 1947 between the Jews and Arabs. The jews agreed to it, the arabs rejected it. This lead to a war in which the jews ended up with even more land. So the arabs planned another attempt in 1967, which is what lead to them being essentially kicked out of israel in the six day war. They then tried a third time, which culminated in another defeat during the Yom Kippur war. Which isn't to say that I agree with what Israel is doing now - frankly, neither israel nor palestine are in the right - but the accusation that israel evicted the arabs from their homeland isn't accurate. That was rather brought on themselves.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    It's so sad when you hear stories of Palestinians,whose ancestors lived in parts of Israel and who have been displaced and their homes bulldozed because they are not seen as Israelis. I also hear that Israelis are not allowed to marry Palestinians. Talk about ethnic cleansing
    Some of that is tragic and disgraceful, some of it is lies and propaganda.

    I am not sticking up for Israeli aggression, I am standing up against anti-semitic responses to it.

    I despair at the pro and anti language, as if it is a football match and can be viwed as that black and white.

    I'm not accusing you of any of this, I'm just explaining my motivation for the post.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    It's so sad when you hear stories of Palestinians,whose ancestors lived in parts of Israel and who have been displaced and their homes bulldozed because they are not seen as Israelis. I also hear that Israelis are not allowed to marry Palestinians. Talk about ethnic cleansing
    Not sure how true that is given they recently passed a law blocking Palestinians married to Israelis from moving to Israel

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10327385.html

    So there is a sort of ban in that it makes it difficult

    That being said marriage in Israel is all weird. Can't have an interfaith marriage (unless it happens outside Israel in which case they do recognize it). Have to get married by a religious institution but they recognize civil marriage from outside Israel.
 
 
 
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