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    (Original post by Damien96)
    I despair at the pro and anti language, as if it is a football match and can be viwed as that black and white.
    Again!? :rolleyes:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...3#post62900143
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    (Original post by garfeeled)
    Not sure how true that is given they recently passed a law blocking Palestinians married to Israelis from moving to Israel

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10327385.html

    So there is a sort of ban in that it makes it difficult

    That being said marriage in Israel is all weird. Can't have an interfaith marriage (unless it happens outside Israel in which case they do recognize it). Have to get married by a religious institution but they recognize civil marriage from outside Israel.
    This is the biggest problem Israel has, seperating its religion from law.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    You said "Israel has been a homeland for Jews".

    If a Jew was to have said this in 1600, he would have been regarded as absolutely bonkers.

    How can an entity, which has not yet come into existence, be the homeland of someone?

    Does the current Israeli landmass equate to the same area of land as was the Kingdom of Israel some 3000 years back?

    Don't be so silly as to make rash statements.
    None of the statements you claim to be "Silly" are untrue. Jews existed in the region, fact.

    You seem to be missing the point, which I am guessing is what you were striving for. All conversations about this topic end up being impossible, not because the topic is that complex but because people don't want to have them.

    We can disagree but being pedantic, confusing the issue and name calling makes you part of the problem.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Israelis are not allowed to marry Palestinians
    Huh? Who on earth told you that? :erm:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Huh? Who on earth told you that? :erm:
    "One old lady said" - very reliable source.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    I could well be wrong on the details (haven't really looked at israeli history for a couple years), but from what I recall weren't the israelis quite willing to share Israel, up until the six-day war?
    Depends what you mean by 'share'. This is a similar debate that exists in many partitionist conflicts (such as say, Bosnia):
    - The Israeli side maintains that it is and has generally been willing to 'share' the land in the sense of its partition into two states, one explicitly for Jews and one explicitly for Palestinians.
    - The Palestinian side has somewhat accepted the bulk of the Israeli position in recent years (though it's more reluctant on the explicit defining of the two states), but until the First Intifada, their position was that they were willing to 'share' the land in the sense of a joint state over the whole area, a shared state between Jews and Palestinians.

    From what I remember, the arab countries surrounding israel (egypt, jordan and syria) planned a military attack on israel, which israel pre-empted and blew them out of the water. That was what lead to the arabs being pushed out of Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip and parts of the Sinai?
    Nope. This was the Israeli line for a long time (and to an extent still is) but increasingly, historical consensus is that the Arab states lacked both the intent and the capacity to make an attack. Pro-Israel arguments about 1967 have generally shifted to more circumstantial arguments.

    The UN suggested a partition of the land in 1947 between the Jews and Arabs. The jews agreed to it, the arabs rejected it.
    Sort of. The UN General Assembly (not the Security Council) recommended a partition. The Jewish Agency, the main Zionist body in Palestine, somewhat ambiguously but in general approved the partition (there are however historical doubts about the sincerity of this). The minor hard-right groups Irgun and Lehi rejected it. The Palestinian Arabs had no clearly defined leadership in the same sense, but there was broad dissatisfaction with and opposition to the proposal. Nevertheless, indifference and resignation was more common among the Palestinians than significant active opposition.

    Also, crucially, the partition plan had no implementation mechanism, and the British authorities had no intention of implementing it, rendering it largely meaningless as soon as it had been proposed.

    So the arabs planned another attempt in 1967, which is what lead to them being essentially kicked out of israel in the six day war.
    I discussed the Six Day Way above, but what do you mean "kicked out of Israel"? The territory Israel captured in 1967 is not part of Israel.

    They then tried a third time, which culminated in another defeat during the Yom Kippur war.
    Egypt and Syria had little illusion that they might 'win' the 1973 War. Sadat wanted simply to win some negotiating leverage and prestige to get Sinai back - which he had offered to negotiate a peace deal for in the three years since he had taken office as President of Egypt. Israel threw his offers in his face and left him little other option.

    the accusation that israel evicted the arabs from their homeland isn't accurate.
    Yes, it is, this is largely historical consensus now.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    It was known as Palestine for a long long time. The current Israel only came into existence in the 40's. And yes Jews did live in Palestine, but not the European Jews who migrated there after WW2, they can't just turn up and say it's theirs.

    It's been decades though, so they should be allowed have Israel, but they can't keep building these illegal settlements and taking away Palestinian land.
    The country of Palestine is not the same as the land, the country is a made up entity. Obviously all countries are made up entities, but Palestine was literally made up to sell the idea to outsiders.

    I still support the idea of Palestine, but never pretend there is a thousand year old history here, not even 100 years of history.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I personally believe that what is best for the region is a one-state solution.

    Perpetuating the myth that the entity that is Israel is and will only be a homeland for Jews is to deny Palestinians, and Palestinian refugees their inalienable right to return.

    The conflict cannot be solved if people keep saying that Israel is a homeland for Jews which allows the current Israeli policy of only Jews being allowed to make Aliyah.

    The Israeli state is a state with racist policies and apartheid practices.
    warmonger detected
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Bringing people together instead of splitting them up constitutes a "warmonger"?

    Well then, I'm a very proud warmongerer.
    It's like the Iran deal, only Islamic nutters and hardcore Zionists who believe Israel should annex the West Bank believe in one state.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I personally believe that what is best for the region is a one-state solution.

    Perpetuating the myth that the entity that is Israel is and will only be a homeland for Jews is to deny Palestinians, and Palestinian refugees their inalienable right to return.

    The conflict cannot be solved if people keep saying that Israel is a homeland for Jews which allows the current Israeli policy of only Jews being allowed to make Aliyah.

    The Israeli state is a state with racist policies and apartheid practices.
    While I partly agree with that, how many Jews live in Palestine? Other than the incursions of course. Palestinians exist in Israel. Throwing around the word apartheid is inaccurate.

    As an aside, how many gay bars are there in Palestine? How safe is it to be an atheist? Israel has the potential to be a modern secular state if it can get its own religious bigots under control and stop pandering to the right. With Hamas in charge there is only fascism and death. There are an enormous amount of Israeli protestors against its government, that should never be forgotten as well. A frightened population under attackwill unfortunately always lean right, that goes for both sides.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    The conflict cannot be solved if people keep saying that Israel is a homeland for Jews
    Israel is a homeland for Jews. :cool:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Huh? Who on earth told you that? :erm:
    A Palestinian
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Israel is a homeland for Jews. :cool:
    And where will the Arabs go?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    And where will the Arabs go?
    West Bank

    Gaza


    The areas the Palestinians want.
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    (Original post by Feel Tha Bern)
    West Bank

    Gaza


    The areas the Palestinians want.
    I'm pretty sure the Palestinians want more than just that
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    (Original post by Feel Tha Bern)
    It's like the Iran deal, only Islamic nutters and hardcore Zionists who believe Israel should annex the West Bank believe in one state.
    A one state solution is best for the region.

    If you have any arguments against it, then let's hear them.

    (Original post by Jetboy)
    While I partly agree with that, how many Jews live in Palestine? Other than the incursions of course. Palestinians exist in Israel. Throwing around the word apartheid is inaccurate.
    Israel is a state that has apartheid practices.

    As an aside, how many gay bars are there in Palestine? How safe is it to be an atheist? Israel has the potential to be a modern secular state if it can get its own religious bigots under control and stop pandering to the right. With Hamas in charge there is only fascism and death. There are an enormous amount of Israeli protestors against its government, that should never be forgotten as well. A frightened population under attackwill unfortunately always lean right, that goes for both sides.
    Please don't give me the "Israel is the only democracy" trollop and whataboutery.

    I am concerned with how Israel treats Palestinians and to put it mildly, it is brutal.

    (Original post by admonit)
    Israel is a homeland for Jews. :cool:
    Israel is a state that has racist polices and practices apartheid.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I'm pretty sure the Palestinians want more than just that
    Most countries recognise the pre-1967 borders, some pro-Israel people want more, but anything less simply won't happen.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    A one state solution is best for the region.

    If you have any arguments against it, then let's hear them.
    Lets hear your argument first lol
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    A Palestinian
    Specifically who?
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Bringing people together.

    Your turn.
    That's not a reason.

    The rampant antisemitism and Islamic Extremism of Palestinians.
 
 
 
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