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Socialism "corrodes not only the economy but the human spirit itself".
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username2228735
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#1
"I'm enjoying the irony of American Sanders supporters lecturing me, a former Soviet citizen, on the glories of Socialism and what it really means! Socialism sounds great in speech soundbites and on Facebook, but please keep it there. In practice, it corrodes not only the economy but the human spirit itself, and the ambition and achievement that made modern capitalism possible and brought billions of people out of poverty. Talking about Socialism is a huge luxury, a luxury that was paid for by the successes of capitalism. Income inequality is a huge problem, absolutely. But the idea that the solution is more government, more regulation, more debt, and less risk is dangerously absurd"
- Garry Kasparov
- Garry Kasparov
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DotDotDot...
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#2
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#2
(Original post by Aceadria)
"I'm enjoying the irony of American Sanders supporters lecturing me, a former Soviet citizen, on the glories of Socialism and what it really means! Socialism sounds great in speech soundbites and on Facebook, but please keep it there. In practice, it corrodes not only the economy but the human spirit itself, and the ambition and achievement that made modern capitalism possible and brought billions of people out of poverty. Talking about Socialism is a huge luxury, a luxury that was paid for by the successes of capitalism. Income inequality is a huge problem, absolutely. But the idea that the solution is more government, more regulation, more debt, and less risk is dangerously absurd"
- Garry Kasparov
"I'm enjoying the irony of American Sanders supporters lecturing me, a former Soviet citizen, on the glories of Socialism and what it really means! Socialism sounds great in speech soundbites and on Facebook, but please keep it there. In practice, it corrodes not only the economy but the human spirit itself, and the ambition and achievement that made modern capitalism possible and brought billions of people out of poverty. Talking about Socialism is a huge luxury, a luxury that was paid for by the successes of capitalism. Income inequality is a huge problem, absolutely. But the idea that the solution is more government, more regulation, more debt, and less risk is dangerously absurd"
- Garry Kasparov
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math42
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#3
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#3
Elements of both capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive...as far as I'm aware nobody is suggesting America go full-on 100% socialist.
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sleepysnooze
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#4
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#4
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TaintedLight
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#5
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#5
Bernie is not a socialist per the dictionary definition of socialism -- "a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies."
Bernie believes in a sort of social democracy that's used effectively in Northern European countries; to guarantee a decent living to everyone with significant supports like healthcare, unemployment benefits, higher education and yadda.
He also wants the government, in its role as a regulator of the economy, break up big banks whose failure could melt the economy as a whole.
From my understanding, his "breaking up of big banks" is to curtail their ability to over leverage at the expense of the middle class' welfare. I don't necessarily agree with this notion but I can appreciate such a stance.
Bernie believes in a sort of social democracy that's used effectively in Northern European countries; to guarantee a decent living to everyone with significant supports like healthcare, unemployment benefits, higher education and yadda.
He also wants the government, in its role as a regulator of the economy, break up big banks whose failure could melt the economy as a whole.
From my understanding, his "breaking up of big banks" is to curtail their ability to over leverage at the expense of the middle class' welfare. I don't necessarily agree with this notion but I can appreciate such a stance.
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SmashConcept
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#6
(Original post by sleepysnooze)
seeing as they didn't get more in the first place by stealing it from the other person.
seeing as they didn't get more in the first place by stealing it from the other person.
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Howard
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#7
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#7
Pft!
Kasparov? Chess player. No particular authority on socialism. Join me next week I'll be asking ex world champion darts player Eric Bristow aka "the Crafty Cockney" for his views on American Art during the Reconstruction period.
Kasparov? Chess player. No particular authority on socialism. Join me next week I'll be asking ex world champion darts player Eric Bristow aka "the Crafty Cockney" for his views on American Art during the Reconstruction period.
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sleepysnooze
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#8
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#8
(Original post by SmashConcept)
No, that happened like 3 or 4 WHOLE generations ago. Out of sight, out of mind
No, that happened like 3 or 4 WHOLE generations ago. Out of sight, out of mind
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SmashConcept
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#9
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#9
(Original post by sleepysnooze)
it's funny how you have to rely on fantasies to form your ideology. if you were talking about maybe the medieval times you may have had a point to make. but the world isn't perfect. you can't say that just because some money or property originated from theft means that capitalism as a institution of economic activity is illegitimate. socialism would be *100%* theft-based (or whatever % rate of taxation and to which group in society)
it's funny how you have to rely on fantasies to form your ideology. if you were talking about maybe the medieval times you may have had a point to make. but the world isn't perfect. you can't say that just because some money or property originated from theft means that capitalism as a institution of economic activity is illegitimate. socialism would be *100%* theft-based (or whatever % rate of taxation and to which group in society)
u r very smart congrtulatons
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sleepysnooze
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#10
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#10
(Original post by SmashConcept)
wow yes you're right nothing happened in the last 200 years in america that could have made people rich at the expense of a certain group literally nothing it's all just a load of stuff in my head and tarantino movies and history books or whatever PURE FICTION I TELL YOU
u r very smart congrtulatons
wow yes you're right nothing happened in the last 200 years in america that could have made people rich at the expense of a certain group literally nothing it's all just a load of stuff in my head and tarantino movies and history books or whatever PURE FICTION I TELL YOU
u r very smart congrtulatons
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Unkempt_One
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#11
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#11
(Original post by SmashConcept)
wow yes you're right nothing happened in the last 200 years in america that could have made people rich at the expense of a certain group literally nothing it's all just a load of stuff in my head and tarantino movies and history books or whatever PURE FICTION I TELL YOU
u r very smart congrtulatons
wow yes you're right nothing happened in the last 200 years in america that could have made people rich at the expense of a certain group literally nothing it's all just a load of stuff in my head and tarantino movies and history books or whatever PURE FICTION I TELL YOU
u r very smart congrtulatons
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JamesN88
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#12
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#12
It's ironic that the Russian oligarchs(led by an ex-KGB agent) are now some of the most decadent capitalists in the world and the parts of Germany where the far-right are most active were in the socialist GDR.
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SmashConcept
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#13
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#13
(Original post by sleepysnooze)
do you really think that the majority of property ownership even 200 years ago was based on theft? how? elaborate.
do you really think that the majority of property ownership even 200 years ago was based on theft? how? elaborate.
(Original post by Unkempt_One)
What does this have to do with capitalism vs socialism?
What does this have to do with capitalism vs socialism?
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Unkempt_One
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#14
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#14
(Original post by SmashConcept)
In America?? Is that a serious question???? lmao
I'm replying to someone's posts. Thanks for asking.
In America?? Is that a serious question???? lmao
I'm replying to someone's posts. Thanks for asking.
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sleepysnooze
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#15
(Original post by SmashConcept)
In America?? Is that a serious question???? lmao.
In America?? Is that a serious question???? lmao.
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SmashConcept
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#16
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#16
(Original post by Unkempt_One)
I'm butting in because you just jumped on one minor point in that guy's post to derail the bloody thread.
I'm butting in because you just jumped on one minor point in that guy's post to derail the bloody thread.
And besides, what is the point of the thread? To have a broad, good faith discussion about the merits of socialism? To discuss Kasparov's political career? To talk about Sanders's policies? Because nobody else is really doing any of those things.
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Unkempt_One
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#17
(Original post by SmashConcept)
His entire post was claiming that income inequality isn't a problem. Debating his rationale for that is hardly derailing the thread. He then said that wide scale coercion in the last few generations in America was a "fantasy." You should be able to indulge me laughing at him for a few posts.
And besides, what is the point of the thread? To have a broad, good faith discussion about the merits of socialism? To discuss Kasparov's political career? To talk about Sanders's policies? Because nobody else is really doing any of those things.
His entire post was claiming that income inequality isn't a problem. Debating his rationale for that is hardly derailing the thread. He then said that wide scale coercion in the last few generations in America was a "fantasy." You should be able to indulge me laughing at him for a few posts.
And besides, what is the point of the thread? To have a broad, good faith discussion about the merits of socialism? To discuss Kasparov's political career? To talk about Sanders's policies? Because nobody else is really doing any of those things.
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SmashConcept
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#18
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#18
(Original post by sleepysnooze)
this certainly isn't a serious answer. if you don't want to answer my question, whatever.
this certainly isn't a serious answer. if you don't want to answer my question, whatever.
1600s - White people discovered America. Nobody was living there, except bison which don't count because we're not stupid vegans. That means free land for whitey! Score!!!
1700s - Americans built a strong economy based on voluntary labour and workers' rights. Using this wealth, they bravely declared independence from the mean tax man.
1800s - Civil war!! Over what though? Who remembers? Not me! Probably ethics in gaming journalism or something like that. Anyway at some point after the civil war (for the sake of argument let's say 6 months) every race became exactly equal and nobody had anything to complain about any more.
1900s - Everyone had a vote and at no point was there a concerted effort to deny civil rights to an entire group of people. After the two world wars, the GI bill applied equally to all people of all races. This meant equality of opportunity for all, and anyone who stayed poor throughout this century was obviously lazy.
2000s - Since no generational wealth was ill gotten in any of the previous centuries, equality of opportunity is even more obvious than ever. OK, so maybe SOME bad stuff happened, and maybe SOME income inequality might be due to a TINY BIT of mass subjugation, but that was really long ago. Like, over 150 years! That's aaaaaaages. Can you remember 150 years ago? Me neither. So income inequality is just not a big deal. I mean it never has been, but it especially isn't now. But we need to Make America Great Again and go back to the times when it was a bit of a big deal. But not a big big deal. Never has been.
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SmashConcept
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#19
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#19
(Original post by Unkempt_One)
They were talking about inequality in general and you've brought up the singular example of the African-American population as though it undermines the general principle; that's your 'fantasy'.
They were talking about inequality in general and you've brought up the singular example of the African-American population as though it undermines the general principle; that's your 'fantasy'.
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Unkempt_One
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#20
(Original post by SmashConcept)
I thought Sanders was running for POTUS, not President In General. But as we know, my news sources are not very reliable.
I thought Sanders was running for POTUS, not President In General. But as we know, my news sources are not very reliable.
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