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    (Original post by SA-1)
    You've had the best part of the past year to get yourself informed ffs
    Meh, honestly I'm not really that bothered - I have no interest in politics and like I said, I'll just take it how it comes and not complain.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    Meh, honestly I'm not really that bothered - I have no interest in politics and like I said, I'll just take it how it comes and not complain.
    You are just the worst.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    The majority of my family have actually decided out.

    Personally I'm not gonna vote; I'm of the opinion that if I don't know the full story from both sides, I can't make an informed decision and therefore it wouldn't be right to vote.

    However I'm also of the opinion that if you don't vote, you can't complain one bit about whatever the end result turns out to be. I'm just gonna roll with it and take it as it comes. Don't plan on spending too many more years in the UK anyway so that's something I guess...
    Many will have a problem with this - but I dont.

    I think the reason most will be angry at you for not voting, is just because they are angry your not voting for their side..

    Fine to choose not to though - its part of democracy, being given the choice over who leads you and what happens in your country.. one of the freedoms in that choice is the ability to choose not to choose.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Does anyone here actually like the EU?

    Not asking if your voting to stay in - as on the ballance of all things, I will vote to stay in tommorow - but I dont like the EU..

    But does anyone actually think the EU is a particularly good and positive thing?

    Asking because, from the people I have spoke to who are voting IN tommorow, only 1 guy is actually a big fan of the EU - most just accept that we are better off IN then OUT, whilst agreeing that the EU is not at all a perfect of all-together positive addition, but with the current climate/arrangements, it would be a disaster to leave, as it offers us far more then we would get without.

    So does any one here actually like it? - I mean, if you had a choice between a prosperous UK outside of the EU, and a prosperous UK inside of the EU? - in both cases financially we are identical.. which would you choose?
    I don't like it, but I intend to vote remain. Not that bothered about the outcome in truth, I think it'll be a case of we'll gain in some areas and lose in others.
    Part of me hopes we exit, simply out of curiosity.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    The majority of my family have actually decided out.

    Personally I'm not gonna vote; I'm of the opinion that if I don't know the full story from both sides, I can't make an informed decision and therefore it wouldn't be right to vote.

    However I'm also of the opinion that if you don't vote, you can't complain one bit about whatever the end result turns out to be. I'm just gonna roll with it and take it as it comes. Don't plan on spending too many more years in the UK anyway so that's something I guess...
    Where would you live? Ireland.

    Or somewhere in mainland europe? Cos that's made invariably harder if UK opt out of the EU.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Does anyone here actually like the EU?

    Not asking if your voting to stay in - as on the ballance of all things, I will vote to stay in tommorow - but I dont like the EU..

    But does anyone actually think the EU is a particularly good and positive thing?

    Asking because, from the people I have spoke to who are voting IN tommorow, only 1 guy is actually a big fan of the EU - most just accept that we are better off IN then OUT, whilst agreeing that the EU is not at all a perfect of all-together positive addition, but with the current climate/arrangements, it would be a disaster to leave, as it offers us far more then we would get without.

    So does any one here actually like it? - I mean, if you had a choice between a prosperous UK outside of the EU, and a prosperous UK inside of the EU? - in both cases financially we are identical.. which would you choose?
    Spoiler:
    Show
    It's just a nebulous (and huge) concept with far too many reaching impacts and complexities to be able to say YES - I'm in favour for everything related to the EU.

    It's like immigration - you don't see names/faces so generally people will say they dislike mass immigration or may at best concede there are some benefits but it needs to be controlled etc.

    Both go back to the human nature of the fear of the unknown (most people, including myself) would struggle to explain what it means to be in the EU in a specific way and it will be very generic or broad brush statements.

    Other countries around the world seem to manage it fine - the USA, China and India are 3 examples of huge geographical areas with bigger populations who manage to stay in a block - why is the EU that different? Or are people so blindsided to think that everyone in India is equal (rather than looking at religion, wealth, education, gender, geographical location etc)?

    My view is that the world is getting smaller and smaller due to technology - you can now interact with someone else anywhere else in the world, our goods/service are transported and consumed on the other side of the world (likewise we bring in), people are learning more main stream languages (like English) so you can communicate with more people.

    Historically in England people used to live in their villages with their lord who looked over them and people would stay very separate (often fighting with neighbours). We then moved to having national borders and we fought wars to take territory (England/France, going into Africa and the Americas etc).

    The world is constantly changing and we should be looking to continue changing with it. The idea that the UK can isolate itself and be in a better position is ridiculous. We've advanced so much in the last 60 years because it's been much more mutual progression (rather than taking away from someone else). Would people be surprised if eventually the world wasn't eventually a bit more equal? Probably too idealistic to be a reality but I can see a trend towards it.

    Spoiler text for you fallen_acorns. For most it would be "tl;dr".

    Going back specifically to the EU vote tomorrow. It really annoys the hell out of me how the Leave campaign keep banging on about "taking control". Who do they honestly mean when they say control? Frankly is having some right wing/**** like Boris making decisions for me really any better or different to someone over in Brussels making the decision?

    I'm skeptical and think the only people who will benefit from "taking control" from the EU are the politicians - it won't help me. Then you look at all these career politicians and have to wonder, do they care about me or do they just care about their own careers?

    So in conclusion:
    - I'm mildly in favour of the EU in terms of politics;
    - I'm heavily in favour of the EU in terms of economic benefits;
    - I strongly believe those politicians who want to leave the EU are doing so in self interest; and
    - I've failed to see anything credible from the Leave campaign other than scaremongering about immigration and saying nonsense rhetoric about "taking control" without saying anything of substance.

    :woo: VOTING IN :woo:
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Where would you live? Ireland.

    Or somewhere in mainland europe? Cos that's made invariably harder if UK opt out of the EU.
    Nah, America is the plan.

    Although in fairness, how many plans pull off without a hitch?
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    [spoiler]x
    Interesting read

    Spoiler:
    Show

    Agree with your comments on the world shrinking/globalization.

    For me, when historians look back in years to come and question why after millenniums of kings, queens and countries, we moved into a world beyond - the answer they will find will be the moment when the powerful shifted from countries to companies.

    Its something I hear said a lot these days - but its not something I think many have really truly taken stock of, which is how much greater the influence and power of companies are, then countries these days.

    You can see it here in china. The traditional routines are being broken down due to the influence of coperations rather then the goverment. Take meals. Traditionally in china you have a big breakfast, a huge lunch, and a very small dinner. Its a very healthy way of eating that has been going on for centuries.. but, sadly it does not fit in well with the west. So whats happening? Slowly the influence of companies is taking its effect.. Originally western-owned restaurant chains that are becoming increasingly popular here, push the idea of an evening meal.. fast food chains market their 'western style quick breakfasts' that go against tradition.. smaller business take lessons from their large multinational rivals and reduce lunch times down to that of western business, removing their full free staff cafeterias whilst they are at it. Multi-national food chains realise they can now sell pack-lunch type food to children, where there was no market before.. yoghurt drinks fill the void for quick breakfasts. And even though many of the people I speak to do not really like this change, they dont know why but they can see their society changing..

    For me, my worry is it will be a trade-off:

    When we lived in a system of countries holding all the power, kings and queens, one family who rules over a piece of land.. we developed vastly diverse and different cultures, languages.. but the drawback was that we had strong attitudes of 'us' and 'them' - constant fighting, wars, death, a lack of cooperation and slow development.

    Now we are moving to a system of countries becoming increasingly less important. Large corporations hold a huge sway in governments, and an even bigger influence over the people.. This is helping to solve the problems of 'us' and 'them' - we work together now.. war is far less common, as for most companies it is a disaster.. we live in a time of unrivaled comparative peace.. but the cost of this, is our differences.

    Companies want a global consumer base. They want a homogenized population, who all are capable of consuming their product. They dont want to have to be limmited by differences, and instead prioritise a diverse, flexible and cheap work-force as possible.

    My worry is that we will pay for peace with our differences, and end up with a progressive peacefull society, but one that is ultimatly bland and lacking in uniqueness.

    Of course stamping out differences would take hundreds and hundreds of years, but i'm pretty sure many can start to see it happening now.

    Which gets me back to the EU referendum.. I agree with you that one of the core reasons people vote in, is the fear of the un-known, but I also think it boils down to feelings of:

    - Fear of change/unknown
    - Fear of loosing what they cherish
    - Fear of loosing their identity/what makes them unique
    - Dislike of what is different
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    I'm all for a European Union, but only with the good countries. There should be a West/ East divide, and anything east of Germany can just **** off and be annexed to Russia. And even then, Netherlands and Norway can **** off too.
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    Denmark can **** off too.
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    Always has to turn it into West vs East.

    Cold War's over pal.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Interesting read

    Spoiler:
    Show

    Agree with your comments on the world shrinking/globalization.

    For me, when historians look back in years to come and question why after millenniums of kings, queens and countries, we moved into a world beyond - the answer they will find will be the moment when the powerful shifted from countries to companies.

    Its something I hear said a lot these days - but its not something I think many have really truly taken stock of, which is how much greater the influence and power of companies are, then countries these days.

    You can see it here in china. The traditional routines are being broken down due to the influence of coperations rather then the goverment. Take meals. Traditionally in china you have a big breakfast, a huge lunch, and a very small dinner. Its a very healthy way of eating that has been going on for centuries.. but, sadly it does not fit in well with the west. So whats happening? Slowly the influence of companies is taking its effect.. Originally western-owned restaurant chains that are becoming increasingly popular here, push the idea of an evening meal.. fast food chains market their 'western style quick breakfasts' that go against tradition.. smaller business take lessons from their large multinational rivals and reduce lunch times down to that of western business, removing their full free staff cafeterias whilst they are at it. Multi-national food chains realise they can now sell pack-lunch type food to children, where there was no market before.. yoghurt drinks fill the void for quick breakfasts. And even though many of the people I speak to do not really like this change, they dont know why but they can see their society changing..

    For me, my worry is it will be a trade-off:

    When we lived in a system of countries holding all the power, kings and queens, one family who rules over a piece of land.. we developed vastly diverse and different cultures, languages.. but the drawback was that we had strong attitudes of 'us' and 'them' - constant fighting, wars, death, a lack of cooperation and slow development.

    Now we are moving to a system of countries becoming increasingly less important. Large corporations hold a huge sway in governments, and an even bigger influence over the people.. This is helping to solve the problems of 'us' and 'them' - we work together now.. war is far less common, as for most companies it is a disaster.. we live in a time of unrivaled comparative peace.. but the cost of this, is our differences.

    Companies want a global consumer base. They want a homogenized population, who all are capable of consuming their product. They dont want to have to be limmited by differences, and instead prioritise a diverse, flexible and cheap work-force as possible.

    My worry is that we will pay for peace with our differences, and end up with a progressive peacefull society, but one that is ultimatly bland and lacking in uniqueness.

    Of course stamping out differences would take hundreds and hundreds of years, but i'm pretty sure many can start to see it happening now.

    Which gets me back to the EU referendum.. I agree with you that one of the core reasons people vote in, is the fear of the un-known, but I also think it boils down to feelings of:

    - Fear of change/unknown
    - Fear of loosing what they cherish
    - Fear of loosing their identity/what makes them unique
    - Dislike of what is different
    Most probably dont care so will continue to spoiler

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Very interesting about China. I think the only thing I would say is that rather than it being companies that influence everything compared to kings before, it's actually just money/wealth (but agreed that the wealth has shifted from kings to companies).

    Personally I think trying feel "unique" is overrated. You're currently 1 of 7bil people and it must be like over 100bil of people who have ever lived - you're not that special even if everyone likes to think they are the centre of the universe.

    For me, difference and misunderstandings of those differences are what drive conflict and hate. For most of the normal public, if you put them in a room with someone normal from any other country in the world and they were able to communicate, most would realise that they have more similarities and problems in life than differences.


    (Original post by Rk2k14)
    Always has to turn it into West vs East.

    Cold War's over pal.
    Yea swarls - it's all about those ****ing muslims!!1! They're the bad guys in the films and a small minority are terrorists so they must all be evil.

    But when English hooligans are causing trouble, it's not the same thing and you can't tar all England fans with the same brush.

    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by swirly)
    Denmark can **** off too.
    Scandinavian countries are GOAT tbh. We could learn a lot from them...
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    (Original post by swirly)
    Denmark can **** off too.
    **** off you prick
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    Scandinavian countries are GOAT tbh. We could learn a lot from them...
    Didn't you know the women there are all lesbians because they don't want a piece of the swarls.
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    Brb Scandinavian countries have some of the highest HDI figures but they can **** off.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Didn't you know the women there are all lesbians because they don't want a piece of the swarls.
    In fairness, it's very tough to resist swarley.

    He has his own brand of mental deficiency that the girls can't help but fall for...
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Yea swarls - it's all about those ****ing muslims!!1! They're the bad guys in the films and a large minority are terrorists so they must all be evil.
    cc.

    Need a modern version of the Nuremberg laws.
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    Rekt.
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    (Original post by Rk2k14)
    Always has to turn it into West vs East.

    Cold War's over pal.
    Thoughts on what happened in quad studios 1994?
 
 
 
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