Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Godin's comfortably been the best centre half in recent years.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    ^Myth how he hasn't made the team of the year these last couple years.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Swear people should quote their wages as a realistic hourly rate, rather then just how much they earn pre-tax.

    Friend A works for a good company in a demanding sector. He graduated 2 years ago and now earns 37k a year. He claims to work 50 hour weeks including staying late most days and taking work home on weekends. Its demanding

    Friend B works a bog-standard council job, no culture of over-time at all. 37.5 hours on the dot, sometimes leaves early on a friday (but we wont count that). earns 24k

    37 - 24 sounds like a lot.

    £10.20 - £9.70 is what it works out though. Friend A litterally only earns 50p more an hour, after tax and including extra work.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Swear people should quote their wages as a realistic hourly rate, rather then just how much they earn pre-tax.

    Friend A works for a good company in a demanding sector. He graduated 2 years ago and now earns 37k a year. He claims to work 50 hour weeks including staying late most days and taking work home on weekends. Its demanding

    Friend B works a bog-standard council job, no culture of over-time at all. 37.5 hours on the dot, sometimes leaves early on a friday (but we wont count that). earns 24k

    37 - 24 sounds like a lot.

    £10.20 - £9.70 is what it works out though. Friend A litterally only earns 50p more an hour, after tax and including extra work.
    Well while the direct comparison looks closer, Friend B couldn't actually get near Friend A's yearly salary since his company won't give him those extra 12.5 hours. He's unlikely to get the same wage in trying to squeeze in those extra hours with another job.

    Also Friend A will still get that same pay when taking holiday whereas Friend B won't.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Swear people should quote their wages as a realistic hourly rate, rather then just how much they earn pre-tax.

    Friend A works for a good company in a demanding sector. He graduated 2 years ago and now earns 37k a year. He claims to work 50 hour weeks including staying late most days and taking work home on weekends. Its demanding

    Friend B works a bog-standard council job, no culture of over-time at all. 37.5 hours on the dot, sometimes leaves early on a friday (but we wont count that). earns 24k

    37 - 24 sounds like a lot.

    £10.20 - £9.70 is what it works out though. Friend A litterally only earns 50p more an hour, after tax and including extra work.
    I imagine it's pretty hard to say how much you earn an hour if your contract is salaried though. My dad can work anywhere between 50-70 hours a week, but he'd earn the same amount regardless of whether he works the former or the later. He needs to work until he gets the job done. Some jobs can be left until the next day, hence you can leave 5 o'clock each day.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Well while the direct comparison looks closer, Friend B couldn't actually get near Friend A's yearly salary since his company won't give him those extra 12.5 hours. He's unlikely to get the same wage in trying to squeeze in those extra hours with another job.

    Also Friend A will still get that same pay when taking holiday whereas Friend B won't.
    I don't disagree that friend A has it better. Obviously almost everyone would take the bigger job, except a fair few who value their time higher then money, but I would wager they are in the vast majority. For me its just to illustrate how they compare in an accurate way. Just raw pre-tax wages, as we tend to use in the UK, is such a dodgy way of comparing the rewards and wages of two positions. An hourly rate gives you a different comparison, and I would personally say an hourly rate plus the maximum hours you effectively can get paid to do, would be the best comparison.

    The holiday point I don't quite get. No one gets paid for holidays, rather people just get paid for 48 weeks of the year, and then have their wage averaged out over each month regardless of when they work those 48 weeks. The only time I would add it in to a job comparison would be if the amount is different. Teachers for example provide a difficult comparison as their holidays are so vastly different from most other jobs.

    (Original post by The Wavefunction)
    I imagine it's pretty hard to say how much you earn an hour if your contract is salaried though. My dad can work anywhere between 50-70 hours a week, but he'd earn the same amount regardless of whether he works the former or the later. He needs to work until he gets the job done. Some jobs can be left until the next day, hence you can leave 5 o'clock each day.
    True, for some jobs its hard to work out how many hours you work. Mine for instance. Running a business means working all over the place, and working out an average week would be a nightmare to do, unless you actually tracked every hour you work every day. Other people though will find it easier, especially jobs that have a regular expectation of un-paid overtime, rather then a necessity for un-paid over time when it is needed.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    My sister is a good example for me of someone who has a decent wage, but it barely holds up to scrutiny.

    As an NQT in a secondary school, she makes a respectable 21.5k for her first year of work... about £335 a week. She arrives at at school at 8.30am. On average she leaves at 4.15pm.

    Back at home she normally does 1.5 hours marking/organising and lesson planning every evening, and on both weekend days.

    That gives her a normal working week of around 49 hours. and an hourly rate of £6.80 per week.

    ---

    But then you take into account her holidays. Her job gives her 13 weeks holiday a year. Once you take out compulsory training, and work within holidays, its closer to 11 weeks.

    Compared to a friend of mine who works as a superviser in waitrose, thats an aditional 6.5 weeks holiday, over their 4.5 weeks.

    So we can alter the hourly rate, by removing the extra holiday from the yearly total of hours worked, and re-calculating the hourly wage. This comes to: £7.59 an hour.

    My friend working as a waitrose superviser is on £7.80 an hour, with 1.5x bonus for overtime. He is contracted to work full time, 37.5 hours a week, but frequently pulls bonus shifts if he wants to, and does so at £11.70 an hour, or £15.60 if he works on a bank holiday.

    ----

    My first thought was: ok, so the money is pretty similar when you take into account the extra time off that a teacher gets.. the extra hours of pay are certainly more regular then a shop worker, who cant always rely on others not being there/wanting shifts covered.

    But what really are the benefits of being a teacher over a shop supervisor:

    - Better job security. Certainly. One of the most secure positions around.
    - Better progression? Not sure on this one, both have routes upwards, to head teacher, or to store manager/regional manager etc. I would say the lower end of the progression favors the teacher, but the upper end favors the shop worker if you can get there.
    - More job satisfaction? Depends on the school. A nice leafy private school - yes. A challenging city school, nope. Most of the teachers hated their jobs for the year that I worked in a secondary school.
    - Holidays? yes, but as shown above, you pay for them. Only when you factor them in to working out a averaged hourly wage, do you get close to the hourly rate of a decent shop supervisor. The flexibility to do more work in the summer, is something I would definitely consider as a plus though.

    And what are the drawbacks:

    - Much much more stressful
    - Far harder job
    - Worsening work conditions by the year, as the tory government ****s over schools more and more
    - Huge cost of qualification. Student loans + PGCE (unless you teach maths etc) Debt that sticks with you.

    ------

    All in all, for me it just shows that teachers are ****ing awfully paid/treated at the moment, that a pretty low level shop worker has a job that compares quite well to a newly qualified teacher. (heck, considering how stagnant teaching pay rises have become, they stack up well to teachers who have been around for a good few years post qualification)
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Basically if you lot keep this thread so dead, I am going to keep posting **** about crap no one cares about, that barely makes sense any way.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    I don't disagree that friend A has it better. Obviously almost everyone would take the bigger job, except a fair few who value their time higher then money, but I would wager they are in the vast majority. For me its just to illustrate how they compare in an accurate way. Just raw pre-tax wages, as we tend to use in the UK, is such a dodgy way of comparing the rewards and wages of two positions. An hourly rate gives you a different comparison, and I would personally say an hourly rate plus the maximum hours you effectively can get paid to do, would be the best comparison.

    The holiday point I don't quite get. No one gets paid for holidays, rather people just get paid for 48 weeks of the year, and then have their wage averaged out over each month regardless of when they work those 48 weeks. The only time I would add it in to a job comparison would be if the amount is different. Teachers for example provide a difficult comparison as their holidays are so vastly different from most other jobs.



    True, for some jobs its hard to work out how many hours you work. Mine for instance. Running a business means working all over the place, and working out an average week would be a nightmare to do, unless you actually tracked every hour you work every day. Other people though will find it easier, especially jobs that have a regular expectation of un-paid overtime, rather then a necessity for un-paid over time when it is needed.
    You always would take a better paid job early on. Later on in life, you make might more of a decision. I could get a higher paid job but I chose a place to work where the hours are better.

    You get more of a gap when comparing across tax bands too. Fine if you're comparing 100k to 120k but if you compare 40k to 30k then no one factors in the extra 20% tax you're paying above the threshold when citing gross salary.

    Categorise it how you want but you have a holiday entitlement each year and you don't get paid more if you don't take those days (i.e. effectively paid holiday). Some countries have unpaid leave and equally you can take extra unpaid leave where they will adjust your salary for not working that time.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:


    Girl can't sing to save her life.

    Cracking set of tits though.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kim-Jong-Illest)
    thoughts on people still rating thiago silva when guys been more anon than black dads in the ghetto for about 3 years now.

    kosc is actually top 3 tbh, if not the best in the world rn.
    Don't watch Ligue 1 and have no interest in international football so wouldn't really know

    Would say though that any CB who can pass it out from the back, a la David Luiz, Sergio Ramos or John Stones do tend to be heavily overrated.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    My sister is a good example for me of someone who has a decent wage, but it barely holds up to scrutiny.

    As an NQT in a secondary school, she makes a respectable 21.5k for her first year of work... about £335 a week. She arrives at at school at 8.30am. On average she leaves at 4.15pm.

    Back at home she normally does 1.5 hours marking/organising and lesson planning every evening, and on both weekend days.

    That gives her a normal working week of around 49 hours. and an hourly rate of £6.80 per week.

    ---

    But then you take into account her holidays. Her job gives her 13 weeks holiday a year. Once you take out compulsory training, and work within holidays, its closer to 11 weeks.

    Compared to a friend of mine who works as a superviser in waitrose, thats an aditional 6.5 weeks holiday, over their 4.5 weeks.

    So we can alter the hourly rate, by removing the extra holiday from the yearly total of hours worked, and re-calculating the hourly wage. This comes to: £7.59 an hour.

    My friend working as a waitrose superviser is on £7.80 an hour, with 1.5x bonus for overtime. He is contracted to work full time, 37.5 hours a week, but frequently pulls bonus shifts if he wants to, and does so at £11.70 an hour, or £15.60 if he works on a bank holiday.

    ----

    My first thought was: ok, so the money is pretty similar when you take into account the extra time off that a teacher gets.. the extra hours of pay are certainly more regular then a shop worker, who cant always rely on others not being there/wanting shifts covered.

    But what really are the benefits of being a teacher over a shop supervisor:

    - Better job security. Certainly. One of the most secure positions around.
    - Better progression? Not sure on this one, both have routes upwards, to head teacher, or to store manager/regional manager etc. I would say the lower end of the progression favors the teacher, but the upper end favors the shop worker if you can get there.
    - More job satisfaction? Depends on the school. A nice leafy private school - yes. A challenging city school, nope. Most of the teachers hated their jobs for the year that I worked in a secondary school.
    - Holidays? yes, but as shown above, you pay for them. Only when you factor them in to working out a averaged hourly wage, do you get close to the hourly rate of a decent shop supervisor. The flexibility to do more work in the summer, is something I would definitely consider as a plus though.

    And what are the drawbacks:

    - Much much more stressful
    - Far harder job
    - Worsening work conditions by the year, as the tory government ****s over schools more and more
    - Huge cost of qualification. Student loans + PGCE (unless you teach maths etc) Debt that sticks with you.

    ------

    All in all, for me it just shows that teachers are ****ing awfully paid/treated at the moment, that a pretty low level shop worker has a job that compares quite well to a newly qualified teacher. (heck, considering how stagnant teaching pay rises have become, they stack up well to teachers who have been around for a good few years post qualification)
    I thought teachers did marking and sometimes tutoring to supplement their income?

    I could be wrong but I think teachers get better pensions?
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    The pay for a teacher is absolutely appalling when you factor in the hours they ACTUALLY work (marking, lesson planning, parents evenings and even travelling to work) they don't even get paid minimum wage.

    £22k starting salary isn't bad by any means but the problem is there isn't much progression beyond that. Someone with an Economics degree from LSE for example can find something a lot better paid which is also less demanding.

    I really don't understand why anyone would want to become a teacher tbh. Can completely understand why no men do it.

    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    All in all, for me it just shows that teachers are ****ing awfully paid/treated at the moment, that a pretty low level shop worker has a job that compares quite well to a newly qualified teacher. (heck, considering how stagnant teaching pay rises have become, they stack up well to teachers who have been around for a good few years post qualification)
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I've always had a skewed view on teachers because of the school I went to. They never hung around after school and the majority of teachers would just tell us to do the questions in a book and then we'd mark them as a class at the end of the lesson. My maths and RE teacher seemed to be the only ones who'd look at your book.

    My school was ranked 147th out of 150 in Wales at the time, however. Wonderfully the year I left a new head came in and the school has really turned itself around.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sr90)
    £22k starting salary isn't bad by any means but the problem is there isn't much progression beyond that.
    Don't think that is accurate. I know a couple of teachers both pulling in above 50k p/a, I know another pulling much more than that as a locum head teacher. When you consider the holiday they get too, it a good salary. How many other jobs are there where you get 13 weeks of holiday and take home above 50k. None of them are actual classroom teachers though, all work in senior management roles.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fizzel)
    Don't think that is accurate. I know a couple of teachers both pulling in above 50k p/a, I know another pulling much more than that as a locum head teacher. When you consider the holiday they get too, it a good salary. How many other jobs are there where you get 13 weeks of holiday and take home above 50k. None of them are actual classroom teachers though, all work in senior management roles.
    Obviously if you're at the top (near) the top of your profession you're going to be making a lot more.

    For every head teacher making £50k+ there's hundreds of classroom teachers getting ****ed by the system.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Everyone bought their lottery tickets for tonight? :awesome:
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rk2k14)
    Obviously if you're at the top (near) the top of your profession you're going to be making a lot more.

    For every head teacher making £50k+ there's hundreds of classroom teachers getting ****ed by the system.
    Yeah but what I'm saying is the idea there is no progression is not really accurate. Loads of jobs people talk about what they could earn assume you are going to be at the sharp end of your profession. Not that many jobs have a linear progression where everyone heads up the pay scale, people get left behind and others don't. Not everyone is cut out for pressure or leadership.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Everyone bought their lottery tickets for ticket? :awesome:
    tickets for ticket
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sr90)
    The pay for a teacher is absolutely appalling when you factor in the hours they ACTUALLY work (marking, lesson planning, parents evenings and even travelling to work) they don't even get paid minimum wage.

    £22k starting salary isn't bad by any means but the problem is there isn't much progression beyond that. Someone with an Economics degree from LSE for example can find something a lot better paid which is also less demanding.

    I really don't understand why anyone would want to become a teacher tbh. Can completely understand why no men do it.
    Who even factors in traveling to work? Parents evening is a social event IMO.

    If I was a teacher, I'd probably make decent money on the side doing private tutoring. I'm sure after a while, you'll get creative enough to save time on lesson plans and marking homework and ****.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you like carrot cake?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.