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Lara Logan decides to speak about her attack in Tahrir Square Watch

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    (Original post by WBZ144)

    A woman being raped does not justify generalising people from a vast, diverse region, nothing does.
    How about a country where 98% of women have experienced some form of sexual abuse?

    Is that enough to generalise?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    what do you mean by this?
    He means what this chap is talking about: http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/...6694_3232.html
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    what do you mean by this?
    What specifically?

    What I meant by the author being so brave?
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    How about a country where 98% of women have experienced some form of sexual abuse?

    Is that enough to generalise?
    Is Egypt the whole of the Middle East?
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Islam is not a culture,

    That wasn't the point I was making, rather that no one would even think to use these abuses to generalise everyone in the British/US military, so what makes them think that it's OK to do it to Arabs? I can think of a couple of reasons.
    Aside from the one comment about it being typical of arabs, nobody is generalising. They are pointing out issues in the culture.

    Western culture is certainly patriarchal, but this doesnt make everyone sexist. But it does mean that people exist in this kind of climate, which shapes the way they act, and will mean they will be more inclined to be so.

    In the case of the military, it would be a very lazy attitude to refuse to ackowledge there might be some kind of relationship between their military status and their action, and to not try to tackle these issues, all because somone might claim you are generalising.

    And while islam is not a unified culture, cultures can be islamic. Hence islamic culture.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Is Egypt the whole of the Middle East?
    Now who's generalsing

    This thread is about Egypt and the rape of a person in Egypt

    As we have all accepted not all middle eastern countries are the same and even within those countries there are different attitudes to women but NONE of this negates the fact there are some very serious issues over there

    Why are you so desperate to defend a culture that would threat you as a 3rd class citizen?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism...cist_attitudes
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Now who's generalsing

    This thread is about Egypt and the rape of a person in Egypt

    As we have all accepted not all middle eastern countries are the same and even within those countries there are different attitudes to women but NONE of this negates the fact there are some very serious issues over there

    Why are you so desperate to defend a culture that would threat you as a 3rd class citizen?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism...cist_attitudes
    Not all of you have accepted this, if you have read the posts by others on this thread. And most of these posts had nothing to do with gender equality over there.

    And don't pull that crap on me; I have lived in the Middle East and do not need to be told what it is like over there by Orientalist Westerners, thank you very much. I have discussed the issues of racism there with those I deemed relevant to discuss them with. But I will not accept anti-Arab racism just because some Arabs are racist. It would be like asking me to accept anti-White racism due to experienced with White people, especially those from Eastern Europe.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Aside from the one comment about it being typical of arabs, nobody is generalising. They are pointing out issues in the culture.

    Western culture is certainly patriarchal, but this doesnt make everyone sexist. But it does mean that people exist in this kind of climate, which shapes the way they act, and will mean they will be more inclined to be so.

    In the case of the military, it would be a very lazy attitude to refuse to ackowledge there might be some kind of relationship between their military status and their action, and to not try to tackle these issues, all because somone might claim you are generalising.

    And while islam is not a unified culture, cultures can be islamic. Hence islamic culture.
    What about those calling Queen Bee a liar for saying that she wore skirts and shorts but was not assaulted?

    I was not comparing it to Western culture, just pointing out that no one would say that military men are all a certain way or think a certain way or that women who dress a certain way are not safe around them. Yet they feel fine saying this about Arab men.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    do not need to be told what it is like over there by Orientalist Westerners,
    And there you go
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    What about those calling Queen Bee a liar for saying that she wore skirts and shorts but was not assaulted?

    I was not comparing it to Western culture, just pointing out that no one would say that military men are all a certain way or think a certain way or that women who dress a certain way are not safe around them. Yet they feel fine saying this about Arab men.
    Those saying she is a liar are not saying all arabs are perverted, but are disbuting the implied claim that none are.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Islam is not a culture, and while most inhabitants in the region are Muslims, it is not practiced equally from country to country so it makes no sense to treat Middle Eastern countries like they are all one. For an example the Jordanian constitution says nothing about Shari'ah and a number of ME countries derive their laws from sources other than Islam.

    That wasn't the point I was making, rather that no one would even think to use these abuses to generalise everyone in the British/US military, so what makes them think that it's OK to do it to Arabs? I can think of a couple of reasons.
    Yes it is religion IS culture
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Islam is not a culture, and while most inhabitants in the region are Muslims, it is not practiced equally from country to country so it makes no sense to treat Middle Eastern countries like they are all one. For an example the Jordanian constitution says nothing about Shari'ah and a number of ME countries derive their laws from sources other than Islam.
    Islam is a way of life, it tells one how to behave, what to eat, even how to wash. It informs one's attitudes and gender values etc. It directly affects culture, naturally. To infer otherwise by saying Islam is not a culture, is very disingenuous! The central common denominator of all the different cultures of Muslim Middle Eastern countries, is Islam. We know Middle Eastern countries are not identical, just as we know European countries are similar in their gender attitudes and values but the culture of the countries are not identical. Your point is irrelevant and seems you must be using it out of desperation to draw away from the shocking incident and discussion about it, that is under discussion in this thread.

    (Original post by WBZ144)
    That wasn't the point I was making, rather that no one would even think to use these abuses to generalise everyone in the British/US military, so what makes them think that it's OK to do it to Arabs? I can think of a couple of reasons.
    You're joking aren't you? Western countries are under intense criticism and vilification constantly and DO NOT usually defend abhorrent moral actions when exposed, by making lame comparisons with different cultures! As if that somehow justifies cruel and despicable behaviour. It seems that some groups have trouble facing the negative aspects of their culture and would rather keep with the taboo of not discussing and exploring it in order to change it for the better.
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    (Original post by Marco1)
    Islam is a way of life, it tells one how to behave, what to eat, even how to wash. It informs one's attitudes and gender values etc. It directly affects culture, naturally. To infer otherwise by saying Islam is not a culture, is very disingenuous! The central common denominator of all the different cultures of Muslim Middle Eastern countries, is Islam. We know Middle Eastern countries are not identical, just as we know European countries are similar in their gender attitudes and values but the culture of the countries are not identical. Your point is irrelevant and seems you must be using it out of desperation to draw away from the shocking incident and discussion about it, that is under discussion in this thread.


    You're joking aren't you? Western countries are under intense criticism and vilification constantly and DO NOT usually defend abhorrent moral actions when exposed, by making lame comparisons with different cultures! As if that somehow justifies cruel and despicable behaviour. It seems that some groups have trouble facing the negative aspects of their culture and would rather keep with the taboo of not discussing and exploring it in order to change it for the better.
    In case you haven't noticed, most of the people who replied to this thread were not discussing the incident at all. There were posts generalising Arab men, those claiming that White women are the victims of Middle Eastern harassers, those attacking another poster for recounting her own experiences in the Middle East and very few actually talking about what happened in Tahrir Square. My response was to them, if I wanted to draw away from the incident then I would not need to, as other posters here have already succeeded in doing so. Do you have evidence to support your statement about the common denominator? Most people living in Europe are Christians, but you cannot compare a country like Russia to a country like the UK, they are not very similar at all. Similarly you cannot compare a Middle Eastern country which derives it's laws from Shari'ah to one that does not, as Islam would have a greater influence in one than it does in the other.

    Show me where I made a cultural comparison. I showed an example of an institution where rape and sexual violence are disproportionately high, and pointed out that no one would generalise all of the men from this institution like they do with Arab men. And for the record, Western countries come under no more criticism than most others.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Do you have evidence to support your statement about the common denominator?
    Are you denying that Islam is the most significant common denominator across all Arab countries and all ME countries except Israel? Do you really need proof of that?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Are you denying that Islam is the most significant common denominator across all Arab countries and all ME countries except Israel? Do you really need proof of that?
    I already stated that most of the inhabitants are Muslims, but Islam has less influence in some than others. You cannot compare the wealthy Gulf nations that are generally Shari'ah compliant to the non-Gulf ones, the majority of which are secular for most of the part. Being Arab would be a more significant common denominator, save Israel and Iran.

    And yes, I do.
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    (Original post by IESY)
    Better than you resorting to personal insults
    You did completely embarrass yourself there though with that link
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    I already stated that most of the inhabitants are Muslims, but Islam has less influence in some than others. You cannot compare the wealthy Gulf nations that are generally Shari'ah compliant to the non-Gulf ones, the majority of which are secular for most of the part. Being Arab would be a more significant common denominator, save Israel and Iran.

    And yes, I do.
    Girl, you have been speaking common sense throughout this whole thread. Thank you for your contribution.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Now who's generalsing

    This thread is about Egypt and the rape of a person in Egypt

    As we have all accepted not all middle eastern countries are the same and even within those countries there are different attitudes to women but NONE of this negates the fact there are some very serious issues over there

    Why are you so desperate to defend a culture that would threat you as a 3rd class citizen?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism...cist_attitudes
    "Why are you so desperate to defend a culture that would threat you as a 3rd class citizen?"

    can you please stop generalising Arab people and our culture? Thank you
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    "Why are you so desperate to defend a culture that would threat you as a 3rd class citizen?"

    can you please stop generalising Arab people and our culture? Thank you
    I have read plenty of academic material highlighting the issues Arab cultures have with race. To simply dismiss this is dishonest and dangerous but show you seem only troubled about racism when it affects you personally but not on the whole.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I have read plenty of academic material highlighting the issues Arab cultures have with race. To simply dismiss this is dishonest and dangerous but show you seem only troubled about racism when it affects you personally but not on the whole.
    Because What I have experienced in the Arab world, Doesn't fit the description you're portraying. I had the Time of my Life,Respected a lot by the people of many ME countries,The hospitality was great,Dressed however I wanted and have Always felt safe even going out Alone at night.
 
 
 
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