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Lara Logan decides to speak about her attack in Tahrir Square Watch

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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Because What I have experienced
    Personal anecdotes do not trump the facts
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Personal anecdotes do not trump the facts
    You can't generalize a whole group,Especially if you've never been to these countries.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    You can't generalize a whole group,Especially if you've never been to these countries.
    I'm not despite your claims to the contrary but to dent it is an issue is dangerous and allows racism to go unchallenged, something as a half German you should be very aware of given that countries history.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I'm not despite your claims to the contrary but to dent it is an issue is dangerous and allows racism to go unchallenged, something as a half German you should be very aware of given that countries history.
    Of Course Rape is a Huge issue and It's good that people are bringing it up rather than keeping quiet about it,But,Users on here are saying horrible things about the nature of middle eastern and degrading the middle eastern culture,I'm sorry but that's racist and unacceptable. I'm not half German Btw.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Of Course Rape is a Huge issue and It's good that people are bringing it up rather than keeping quiet about it,But,Users on here are saying horrible things about the nature of middle eastern and degrading the middle eastern culture,I'm sorry but that's racist and unacceptable. I'm not half German Btw.
    As I say there are enough scholarly articles dealing with the issues of racism in Arab couture to prove you wrong.

    I simply don't see why you want to play this down.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    As I say there are enough scholarly articles dealing with the issues of racism in Arab couture to prove you wrong.

    I simply don't see why you want to play this down.
    can you look at both sides of the argument please

    play what down?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    can you look at both sides of the argument please

    play what down?
    I have and not once had I claimed all Arabs are racist I've simply highlighted that Arab culture has an issue with racism. This is no worse that saying the UK has issue with racism and this need to be challenged and action taken.

    You seem to want to play down the issues Arab cultures have with racism this is rather alarming given you yourself have claimed you have been the victim of racism in the past.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I have and not once had I claimed all Arabs are racist I've simply highlighted that Arab culture has an issue with racism. This is no worse that saying the UK has issue with racism and this need to be challenged and action taken.

    You seem to want to play down the issues Arab cultures have with racism this is rather alarming given you yourself have claimed you have been the victim of racism in the past.
    I'm Talking about Rape,here. I haven't downplayed anything. I haven't denied that racism exists but rather I told you to stop generalising a a whole group of people after you told a user on here that she would be treated a third class person. That's not a nice thing to say. I have been a victim of racism because I'm an Arab. I was Told to go back home.(my people).
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I'm Talking about Rape,here. I haven't downplayed anything. I haven't denied that racism exists but rather I told you to stop generalising a a whole group of people after you told a user on here that she would be treated a third class person. That's not a nice thing to say. I have been a victim of racism because I'm an Arab. I was Told to go back home.(my people).
    All of my replies to you have been clear I have been talking about racism as that was why I made the 3rd class citizen comment to the poster 2nd class would be a women 3rd class would be because of their race.

    "Why are you so desperate to defend a culture that would threat you as a 3rd class citizen?"

    It seems you've got yourself confused again
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    All of my replies to you have been clear I have been talking about racism as that was why I made the 3rd class citizen comment to the poster 2nd class would be a women 3rd class would be because of their race.

    "Why are you so desperate to defend a culture that would threat you as a 3rd class citizen?"

    It seems you've got yourself confused again
    why are you saying this to her? Have you been in the middle east and treated as such yourself? I don't think so
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    why are you saying this to her? Have you been in the middle east and treated as such yourself? I don't think so
    I;m saying this as I am aware of the issues Arab culture has with racism.

    Yes and no as I'm not a women (my partner however was assaulted on numerous occasions as were other women in the group and one Jamaican college was treated VERY badly so much so we moved hotels because of the staffs attitude to him))

    Cheep shots really queeny

    Once again it seems you are trying to play this down.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I;m saying this as I am aware of the issues Arab culture has with racism.

    Yes and no as I'm not a women (my partner however was assaulted on numerous occasions as were other women in the group and one Jamaican college was treated VERY badly so much so we moved hotels because of the staffs attitude to him))

    Cheep shots really queeny

    Once again it seems you are trying to play this down.
    I wasn't taking a shot,I was saying if you've been treated as a third class citizen in the Middle East and you said No,just as I had predicted. I'm not denying racism exists in the Middle East or the UK. Question is,how do we tackle issues like racism and rape
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I wasn't taking a shot,I was saying if you've been treated as a third class citizen in the Middle East and you said No,just as I had predicted. I'm not denying racism exists in the Middle East or the UK. Question is,how do we tackle issues like racism and rape
    Yes you were

    How can I as a male experience sexual harassment or the same treatment as a women would. How can I as a white male experience the same treatment as a black female

    and because I can't you try and play the issues down this

    Shockingly poor form queeny and as I said a VERY CHEAP shot.

    Enough now I shan't waste my time with you anymore.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Yes you were

    How can I as a male experience sexual harassment or the same treatment as a women would. How can I as a white male experience the same treatment as a black female

    and because I can't you try and play the issues down this

    Shockingly poor form queeny and as I said a VERY CHEAP shot.

    Enough now I shan't waste my time with you anymore.
    Please read what I've written. I haven't down played anything nor have I been rude to you. You're misinterpreting. Haven't I just said that I haven't denied racism/rapes exists in the Middle East? I haven even asked you what we should do to combat these issues and you still haven't responded to me
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    He means what this chap is talking about: http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/...6694_3232.html
    I'll give it a read
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    All of my replies to you have been clear I have been talking about racism as that was why I made the 3rd class citizen comment to the poster 2nd class would be a women 3rd class would be because of their race.

    "Why are you so desperate to defend a culture that would threat you as a 3rd class citizen?"

    It seems you've got yourself confused again
    And your comment was both inappropriate and inaccurate because if you were using scholarly journals as your source then you should have linked them.

    My experiences in the Middle East were that there was definitely quite a bit of racism, but it's also a place where I met some of my closest friends. If I was a third class citizen I would have been denied rights that other races were granted and systematically discriminated against as women and blue-collar workers are in some countries, which was not the case. Talking about racism in the region is all find and well but using the untrue "third class citizen" comment in an attempt to make me stop standing up to the anti-Arab rhetoric is patronising coming from someone who has never been there and shows insincere intentions.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    And your comment was both inappropriate and inaccurate because if you were using scholarly journals as your source then you should have linked them.

    My experiences in the Middle East were that there was definitely quite a bit of racism, but it's also a place where I met some of my closest friends. If I was a third class citizen I would have been denied rights that other races were granted and systematically discriminated against as women and blue-collar workers are in some countries, which was not the case. Talking about racism in the region is all find and well but using the untrue "third class citizen" comment in an attempt to make me stop standing up to the anti-Arab rhetoric is patronising coming from someone who has never been there and shows insincere intentions.
    Orientalist sentiments everywhere I look on this thread,it sickening
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    And your comment was both inappropriate and inaccurate
    No I talk from years of reading on the matter of racism and not just racism in the Arab cultures but also in my own as well. You want me to link to about 20years of reading in one post sorry it's not going to happen.

    As I said I have been there and I've witnessed the racism first hand (a senior college was challenged as to why he wasn't carrying my bags for me when we got to the hotel for example) and had my partner sexually assaulted along with other females in my group.

    HOWEVER i would not normally mention this as anecdotal evidence is worthless in this case as unless you have been to every Arab country you can (as can I) only give a small snapshot.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    No I talk from years of reading on the matter of racism and not just racism in the Arab cultures but also in my own as well. You want me to link to about 20years of reading in one post sorry it's not going to happen.

    As I said I have been there and I've witnessed the racism first hand (a senior college was challenged as to why he wasn't carrying my bags for me when we got to the hotel for example) and had my partner sexually assaulted along with other females in my group.

    HOWEVER i would not normally mention this as anecdotal evidence is worthless in this case as unless you have been to every Arab country you can (as can I) only give a small snapshot.
    I would say that living somewhere for several years would enable me to give a much larger snapshot than someone who encountered a few individuals from that region, I would say. Racism in the Arab world tends to be individual racism. Ethnic minorities would only be third class citizens if they were granted less rights on the basis of their ethnicity by the state.

    I didn't ask you to post that, just a scholarly source that isn't Wiki. Of course there is significant racism in the Middle East and it's something that I never shy away from talking about and will call out anyone who tries to deny its existence. That being said if the topic is used with an ulterior to demonise Arabs I do not tend to tolerate it. Everywhere I have been to except for Africa I have experienced racism in some shape or form, so I know that it is hardly unique to Arabs (though to the UK's credit it has been lower here than most of the other places). And as awful as racists are, I cannot disregard the many good people I have met and made friends with from various parts of the world, including the ME.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    In case you haven't noticed, most of the people who replied to this thread were not discussing the incident at all. There were posts generalising Arab men, those claiming that White women are the victims of Middle Eastern harassers, those attacking another poster for recounting her own experiences in the Middle East and very few actually talking about what happened in Tahrir Square. My response was to them, if I wanted to draw away from the incident then I would not need to, as other posters here have already succeeded in doing so. Do you have evidence to support your statement about the common denominator? Most people living in Europe are Christians, but you cannot compare a country like Russia to a country like the UK, they are not very similar at all. Similarly you cannot compare a Middle Eastern country which derives it's laws from Shari'ah to one that does not, as Islam would have a greater influence in one than it does in the other.

    Show me where I made a cultural comparison. I showed an example of an institution where rape and sexual violence are disproportionately high, and pointed out that no one would generalise all of the men from this institution like they do with Arab men. And for the record, Western countries come under no more criticism than most others.
    Are you the thread police are you? You're conflating the topic at hand, and you know it. Who are you to make judgemental generalisations about contributors to the thread? Stick to the topic. If you have an issue with a contributor then address yourself to them. Your generalisations smack loudly of biased political theory, not an exploration of the Arabic gang rape phenomenon in Tahrir Square.
 
 
 
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