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Weak parenting & badly behaved school kids Watch

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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    I'm sure older people said the same about you when you were younger.

    Also to those saying that hitting or the belt is needed... You may as well be a paedophile as that is 10000% abuse and just as damaging.
    Oh they probably did say that - but they were right! The difference is that I actually got punished. Hitting / using a belt isn't right but a smacked bottom doesn't cause any permanent damage and certainly worked for me.
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    (Original post by EmmaStark)
    They looked like Year 7s or 8s. A lady told them off and said "What would your mothers say if I told them how you're behaving on this bus?" and a couple of them answered "She wouldn't care".
    Yes, obviously that's the problem.

    Do you have a solution?
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    (Original post by EmmaStark)
    Oh they probably did say that - but they were right! The difference is that I actually got punished. Hitting / using a belt isn't right but a smacked bottom doesn't cause any permanent damage and certainly worked for me.
    Allowing a smack on the bottom is dangerous... I've seen parents whip their children with a belt and when the child speaks to authority the parent simply replies ow the child is over reacting I only gave them a smack on the bottom....

    In fact who is going to monitor the smacks on the bottom? These smacks could be extreme...

    Violence is never the answer.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Yes, obviously that's the problem.

    Do you have a solution?
    Proper discipline when they're younger!
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    Allowing a smack on the bottom is dangerous... I've seen parents whip their children with a belt and when the child speaks to authority the parent simply replies ow the child is over reacting I only gave them a smack on the bottom....

    In fact who is going to monitor the smacks on the bottom? These smacks could be extreme...

    Violence is never the answer.
    I'm not advocating whipping or using a belt. But on the occasions I've been smacked, I've really thought about why I ended up getting that and I wouldn't do the same thing again for a while. It definitely did hurt and I would cry my eyes out but I wasn't damaged by any stretch of the imagination. I was just being taught a lesson!
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    (Original post by EmmaStark)
    I'm not advocating whipping or using a belt. But on the occasions I've been smacked, I've really thought about why I ended up getting that and I wouldn't do the same thing again for a while. It definitely did hurt and I would cry my eyes out but I wasn't damaged by any stretch of the imagination. I was just being taught a lesson!
    You don't seem to understand while your parents where doing it for the reason they think it's good parenting others are sadistic and will "smack their bottom" and get a thrill out of it.

    I don't think smacking bottoms is the way forward. It's not going to solve anything, it never has.
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    (Original post by EmmaStark)
    Proper discipline when they're younger!
    Right, but what are you going to do about the parents who don't impose proper discipline?
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    (Original post by EmmaStark)
    When getting the bus the other day, there were a group of about 10 schoolgirls messing around, jumping on the seats, shouting, swearing etc. They looked like Year 7s or 8s. A lady told them off and said "What would your mothers say if I told them how you're behaving on this bus?" and a couple of them answered "She wouldn't care".

    I reckon that's the problem... their teachers threatening to phone home doesn't mean anything to them. They know they won't be punished anyway. I've always tried to be good at school because if my teacher had to phone home and speak to my parents, I'd be in line for a smacked bum when I got home. These kids seem to just get away with it. What do you think?
    lol when I was a kid this was my life:

    https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...HPTUWvFkQAXdmq

    That's what the kids of today need
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    (Original post by Gucci Mane.)
    lol when I was a kid this was my life:

    https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...HPTUWvFkQAXdmq

    That's what the kids of today need
    Why do you think this?
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    Why do you think this?
    The bible is right about some things - "Spare the rod, spoil the child".

    If you dont discipline your kids, they will act like monkeys in the zoo. Nothing puts a kid in their place and teaches them manners quicker than a swift smack round the face.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Ive taught in schools in both england and china... the difference: (generally speaking)

    Teacher in china: "Your child has been bad, they are failing/misbehaving etc"
    Parent in china: *blames the child, and themself*


    Teacher in england: "Your child has been bad, they are failing/misbehaving etc"
    Parent in england: *blames the teacher... blames their friends... blames any medical condition they can find... blames technology... blames the goverment........ blames anyone, EXCEPT their child or themself, who ofcourse are perfect"

    See spoiler if your interested in my thoughts of why the differences are more pronounced in different parts of society.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    I would say the differences in parenting are largely in the poorer ends of society. Generally speaking from my experiance in education in two countries, middle class kids, are middle class kids where ever you go. Parents are competative, kids are behaved, but a bit rebellious etc, and its all mostly fine.

    The difference is in the poor. In china, a poor childs parents are normally the most interested in diciplin, sucess, pushing their child to work hard and be the best.. because they understand that this is their childs best way to avoid the poverty that they have experianced in their life.

    They will give 100% of everything they can, both effort wise and financially, to give their child the best chance at escaping poverty, and gaining a better life.

    In england however, parents on benifits, poorer families, (often, not always) dont give a crap about their childs prospects in life. I worked in one of the toughest schools in england, where around 70% of the kids were on free school meals, and a decent percentage flagged by social services.. and you know what feeling I got from the parents? 'We dont want our kids to succeed'. Largely the attitude seemed to be that trying hard, working in school, getting a job, was just not important. They wanted their kids to end up like them, and live life in the way they do.. a desire to push beyond that level of life was often mocked or teased out of children before they even got to secondary school.

    For me there are a huge mixture of reasons for this, but the main two are:

    1 - a lack of social mobility. In china, parents truelly believe that their kids can have a great life, if they work hard and achieve at school and uni. and it is true (to an extent) that every year more and more people escape poverty in china

    2 - Not have experienced true struggle. Some of the kids I worked with in england, did not care about improving their life through education, because their life was pretty good! parents working odd jobs (often dodgy), good level of benifits, social housing, etc. Their level of life was not that dire. -- Compared to china, were if your poor, your ****ed. Welcome to no food, no heating, no housing, life in the countryside that resembles that of the 1800s.. their is no lack of motivation for people to not work..
    Could I ask what did you teach in China?

    Thats a really great insight,

    But I disagree, with only that point: "a lack of social mobility": I think there is social mobility in BOTH England and China, however i feel the latter point is very true in England.
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    (Original post by Gucci Mane.)
    The bible is right about some things - "Spare the rod, spoil the child".

    If you dont discipline your kids, they will act like monkeys in the zoo. Nothing puts a kid in their place and teaches them manners quicker than a swift smack round the face.
    Statistics? Evidence?

    http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/2...ing-your-kids/

    Get a life you sadistic....
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    (Original post by EmmaStark)
    I feel like that makes it sound considerably more violent than it is. There's a massive difference between a beating and getting spanked. For me it's always been very controlled and on the bottom, which is nicely padded and designed for it. When I have kids, they'll get the same. It's done no harm to me!
    How do you know? Where do you draw the line between corporal punishment and abuse? I would argue that there is no line. Corporal punishment is a form of widely justified child abuse.

    Corporal punishment doesn't teach the child that there is another way of being and that what they are doing is wrong. How do you teach a child not to hit when you do? How is a seven year old supposed to know not to hit the younger kids when his or her parents hit them.

    Corporal punishment only teaches that bigger people can use violence to force someone else to do things their way. A smack, however controlled, is a form of violence.

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    (Original post by Gucci Mane.)
    The bible is right about some things - "Spare the rod, spoil the child".

    If you dont discipline your kids, they will act like monkeys in the zoo. Nothing puts a kid in their place and teaches them manners quicker than a swift smack round the face.
    That's child abuse and illegal.

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    Hitting a child is lazy and teaches them nothing... Or in worst case scenarios makes them angry and possibly psychotic.

    The fact that op feels they benefited from it is actually laughable... You turned out good because you are a good human being not because you got your bottom smacked. Even if your parents didn't hit you, you would still be the same if not better as you would have used advice and logic to do the right thing.

    Adults aren't beaten so neither should children be.
    If you have to resort to beating you shouldn't be a parent.
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    Hitting a child is lazy and teaches them nothing... Or in worst case scenarios makes them angry and possibly psychotic.

    The fact that op feels they benefited from it is actually laughable... You turned out good because you are a good human being not because you got your bottom smacked. Even if your parents didn't hit you, you would still be the same if not better as you would have used advice and logic to do the right thing.

    Adults aren't beaten so neither should children be.
    If you have to resort to beating you shouldn't be a parent.
    I'm neither pro nor anti-smacking. Somewhere in between. It can be abusive but to suggest it always is, is wrong.

    Some of the anti-smacking arguments that seem so readily accepted now are absolutely ridiculous though.

    1) You wouldn't hit an adult so why hit a child?
    Well, I wouldn't hit an adult but neither would I send them to the naughty step or take their favourite toys away (and that by force without consent would be considered theft by law). So that argument is completely null and void.

    2) Hitting teaches children that violence is the answer.
    This one is really rolled out a lot. But it makes no sense. If smacking is done as a punishment for bad behaviour it no more teaches children that violence is the answer than any other disciplinary technique would. Does using the in vogue naughty step teach kids that a naughty step is the answer to every dispute they may come across? Of course not.

    3) If smacking worked you'd only ever have to do it once.
    Yes. Of course. The measure of a disciplinary technique is that it works first time every time in correcting behaviour. I mean one stint on the naughty step is all any child will ever need....oh.....

    4) Smacking leads to abuse.
    Well it does. Of course it does. But there is some evidence that actually child abuse goes up after smacking is legally banned. Think logically if an adult gets so frustrated with their child that they abuse them, whether smacking is legal or not is unlikely to matter. And most abuse actually arises from external factors. Usually the adults' mental state, alcoholism, drug taking etc. And whether the defence of reasonable chastisement is present in law or not that won't make a blind bit of difference in those cases.

    I doubt I would smack my own kids ever, because frankly I can't bring myself to do it. But then if they pushed me to a place where I felt I hadn't got other decent options then I might.

    A few years ago we lived next door to a family with two young kids. One of their kids at the age of about 5/6, if he didn't get his way over something, would run out into the middle of the road and lie there rigid. It wasn't a busy road, but there was a fairly tight bend about 50 yards away so it was entirely possible a driver not paying attention could run him over before he'd be able to react. He did this probably once a month, though tried it lots of times - mostly aborted by his mum or dad catching him before he escaped. His parents were entirely reasonable parents and were not ones who readily dished out many punishments but preferred to use reward charts and the like. Anyway, he did the lying in the road act a few times, each time his mum or dad would come out and simply pick him up take off one of his stars from the reward chart and explain to him why he mustn't ever do that again and that would be that. One day however, he did it and a car did come round the bend and had to stop fairly suddenly, before his mum could reach him. Thankfully he was ok, but his mum clearly was panicked. She lectured him and said that although she didn't want to, if he ever went into the road again like that she would smack his bottom. This was quite a severe thing to say as I don't think they'd ever threatened either child with a smack before let alone actually smacked them. Of course he did do it again and his mum, to my surprise did follow through with her threat. After much crying and torment from his mum as she felt so guilty things settled down. And he never, ever once, repeated his lying down in the middle of the road act.

    That story is anecdotal and not submitted as evidence for a pro-smacking argument. More as an example that life isn't always as easy as we'd like to think. Nor as clear cut. If my child was doing something similar and I'd told them off and tried other things to stop them, would I smack them? Probably. Should that be a criminal offence? Absolutely not.

    Educating parents on how to manage their children's behaviour is very valuable. But I think that is better than a change in law, it is also better than automatically condeming and criticising parents without the full story.
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    I think a lot of it is down to the personality of the child. I never misbehaved at school because I didn't want to disappoint people - teachers, my mum, etc. I wouldn't do anything out of line at all because the idea of disappointing someone was enough to stop me. I've always been a real people-pleaser (in hindsight, not a great thing because you forget your own mind). I didn't need my mum to threaten me with a slap - her disappointed face would have been enough for me.

    I think children are being given more and more confidence and maybe independence at a younger age, and maybe that's how their personalities are being shaped. If the only person you have to impress is yourself you can do whatever the heck you like.
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    (Original post by Mr_X_123)
    I'm neither pro nor anti-smacking. Somewhere in between. It can be abusive but to suggest it always is, is wrong.

    Some of the anti-smacking arguments that seem so readily accepted now are absolutely ridiculous though.

    1) You wouldn't hit an adult so why hit a child?
    Well, I wouldn't hit an adult but neither would I send them to the naughty step or take their favourite toys away (and that by force without consent would be considered theft by law). So that argument is completely null and void.

    2) Hitting teaches children that violence is the answer.
    This one is really rolled out a lot. But it makes no sense. If smacking is done as a punishment for bad behaviour it no more teaches children that violence is the answer than any other disciplinary technique would. Does using the in vogue naughty step teach kids that a naughty step is the answer to every dispute they may come across? Of course not.

    3) If smacking worked you'd only ever have to do it once.
    Yes. Of course. The measure of a disciplinary technique is that it works first time every time in correcting behaviour. I mean one stint on the naughty step is all any child will ever need....oh.....

    4) Smacking leads to abuse.
    Well it does. Of course it does. But there is some evidence that actually child abuse goes up after smacking is legally banned. Think logically if an adult gets so frustrated with their child that they abuse them, whether smacking is legal or not is unlikely to matter. And most abuse actually arises from external factors. Usually the adults' mental state, alcoholism, drug taking etc. And whether the defence of reasonable chastisement is present in law or not that won't make a blind bit of difference in those cases.

    I doubt I would smack my own kids ever, because frankly I can't bring myself to do it. But then if they pushed me to a place where I felt I hadn't got other decent options then I might.

    A few years ago we lived next door to a family with two young kids. One of their kids at the age of about 5/6, if he didn't get his way over something, would run out into the middle of the road and lie there rigid. It wasn't a busy road, but there was a fairly tight bend about 50 yards away so it was entirely possible a driver not paying attention could run him over before he'd be able to react. He did this probably once a month, though tried it lots of times - mostly aborted by his mum or dad catching him before he escaped. His parents were entirely reasonable parents and were not ones who readily dished out many punishments but preferred to use reward charts and the like. Anyway, he did the lying in the road act a few times, each time his mum or dad would come out and simply pick him up take off one of his stars from the reward chart and explain to him why he mustn't ever do that again and that would be that. One day however, he did it and a car did come round the bend and had to stop fairly suddenly, before his mum could reach him. Thankfully he was ok, but his mum clearly was panicked. She lectured him and said that although she didn't want to, if he ever went into the road again like that she would smack his bottom. This was quite a severe thing to say as I don't think they'd ever threatened either child with a smack before let alone actually smacked them. Of course he did do it again and his mum, to my surprise did follow through with her threat. After much crying and torment from his mum as she felt so guilty things settled down. And he never, ever once, repeated his lying down in the middle of the road act.

    That story is anecdotal and not submitted as evidence for a pro-smacking argument. More as an example that life isn't always as easy as we'd like to think. Nor as clear cut. If my child was doing something similar and I'd told them off and tried other things to stop them, would I smack them? Probably. Should that be a criminal offence? Absolutely not.

    Educating parents on how to manage their children's behaviour is very valuable. But I think that is better than a change in law, it is also better than automatically condeming and criticising parents without the full story.
    Nope it's barbaric... Most Muslim families inflict fear into their children to keep them on their path and well that didn't turn out well did it.

    If I saw anyone hit a child whether they slightly hit them or worse I would publicly shame them.

    A child will be bad regardless, it's in their personality, but with smacking they are more likely to do it out of sight of their parents.
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    Nope it's barbaric... Most Muslim families inflict fear into their children to keep them on their path and well that didn't turn out well did it.

    If I saw anyone hit a child whether they slightly hit them or worse I would publicly shame them.

    A child will be bad regardless, it's in their personality, but with smacking they are more likely to do it out of sight of their parents.
    Try and discuss this without emotive language.

    The definition of barbaric is "savagely cruel". There is no way on gods earth that a smack or two to the bottom can be considered savagely cruel. If you truly think that then you need to get over yourself. Anyone can easily describe anything as barbaric. It is a throwaway word. But consider what it actually means.

    I'm really 100% unsure what your point about Muslim families is meant to bring to this discussion so I think it is best to ignore it unless you have some actual data behind it. Furthermore I'm not sure why you would suggest that Muslims haven't turned out so well....do you know any? Because like any race or religion the vast majority have turned out very well.

    But if you want to use anecdotal and flaky statistics, the majority of UK adults aged 21 and above will have been smacked at some point either at home or in school growing up. The overwhelming majority of those have turned out ok. If we were to accept your very flawed and weird logic the natural extension of that would be to conclude that smacking is the best way to make sure things do "turn out ok".

    As for your final point, yes some children will break the rules no matter what. The issue is whether there is a justification for using smacking as a behavioural correction method. And further whether it is right to do so. As I say I'm not particularly in either camp. I can certainly sympathise with an argument that says other methods are more effective. I can see with my own kids that removal of privileges tends to work very nicely.

    Equally I think it is incredibly misguided to condemn parents for a light smack. Ultimately there will be people who believe a naughty step is cruel or who think taking things off children is cruel. People should be allowed within reason and the confines of a sensible law to discipline their children how they see fit. I think currently the protection offered by law that states light smacking is allowed so long as no marks are left and no implements are used is more than sufficient.

    Far more harm is done to a child's health by parents who smoke around their kids. If we want to make a real difference ban smoking outright, anywhere. That would do more for children's health and wellbeing than changing a smacking law that is already adequate.
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    It depends though like for me I'd be scared shitless if a teacher said they were going to phone my parents. But my brother rebels, gets excluded, messes around after school and can't be stopped.

    We had exactly the same upbringing
 
 
 
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