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    What is the one thing you would change about Oxford?
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    Welfare provision
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    Longer terms or getting rid of subfusc.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Longer terms or getting rid of subfusc.
    University admin are pretty much in favour of getting rid of subfusc, it's the students that want to keep it!
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    (Original post by KombatWombat)
    University admin are pretty much in favour of getting rid of subfusc, it's the students that want to keep it!
    I know, I only think I've ever spoken to one other student who wants to get rid of it
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Longer terms or getting rid of subfusc.
    Why what's wrong with subfusc?
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    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    Welfare provision

    I got pretty good welfare my fees were paid etc. What specific aspect of welfare provision would you change?
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    (Original post by N-R-G)
    Why what's wrong with subfusc?
    This isn't the place for a rant but I don't understand why students still want to make it compulsory. Nobody's asking to ban it, but exams are stressful enough as it is and having to dress up in fancy clothes just makes it even more stressful for some people. It makes absolutely no difference to anybody else what I'm wearing in an exam so I personally think that keeping it compulsory is pretty pretentious and unjustifiable in the 21st Century. There's nothing wrong with harmless traditions - I'm not a fan of the formals of fancy events like matriculation but they don't really affect me in any way - but subfusc in examinations doesn't really fall into that category.

    Cambridge voted against it so I don't really see why Oxford can't.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    This isn't the place for a rant but I don't understand why students still want to make it compulsory. Nobody's asking to ban it, but exams are stressful enough as it is and having to dress up in fancy clothes just makes it even more stressful for some people. It makes absolutely no difference to anybody else what I'm wearing in an exam so I personally think that keeping it compulsory is pretty pretentious and unjustifiable in the 21st Century. There's nothing wrong with harmless traditions - I'm not a fan of the formals of fancy events like matriculation but they don't really affect me in any way - but subfusc in examinations doesn't really fall into that category.

    Cambridge voted against it so I don't really see why Oxford can't.
    Here! Here!
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Longer terms or getting rid of subfusc.
    I completely understand that some people would not want to wear subfusc, and I dont agree with forcing people to wear it. But as someone who thought I would hate wearing it, I have discovered after nearly two weeks of exams that I actually love wearing subfusc. There is something reassuring about seeing everyone dressed in the same way that makes the occasion feel more official, and it's nice not to have to worry about what you're going to wear each day!
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    This isn't the place for a rant but I don't understand why students still want to make it compulsory. Nobody's asking to ban it, but exams are stressful enough as it is and having to dress up in fancy clothes just makes it even more stressful for some people. It makes absolutely no difference to anybody else what I'm wearing in an exam so I personally think that keeping it compulsory is pretty pretentious and unjustifiable in the 21st Century. There's nothing wrong with harmless traditions - I'm not a fan of the formals of fancy events like matriculation but they don't really affect me in any way - but subfusc in examinations doesn't really fall into that category.

    Cambridge voted against it so I don't really see why Oxford can't.
    There was a thread about this a while ago and whilst I hadn't known this before, apparently you can become exempt from having to wear sub fusc if it causes severe discomfort or distress (I think the OP of the thread in question said she's autistic or something similar) :yes:
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    (Original post by N-R-G)
    I got pretty good welfare my fees were paid etc. What specific aspect of welfare provision would you change?
    Well I'm talking about the treatment of those with mental health problems (staff and students alike) and the way colleges provide for/deal with them. Rather than fees and stuff like that, which I don't consider to be a welfare issue tbh...
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    for a sec i though the OP is talking about the Bollywood movie "Don"
    but then i read the post and i got it
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    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    Well I'm talking about the treatment of those with mental health problems (staff and students alike) and the way colleges provide for/deal with them. Rather than fees and stuff like that, which I don't consider to be a welfare issue tbh...
    How would you like to see people with MH issues treated in future?
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    (Original post by N-R-G)
    How would you like to see people with MH issues treated in future?
    I would wish to see ALL of them treated with a bit of dignity, sympathy and humaneness, tbh...
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    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    I would wish to see ALL of them treated with a bit of dignity, sympathy and humaneness, tbh...


    You've found they don't?
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    (Original post by N-R-G)
    You've found they don't?
    It's pot-luck. Not saying everyone is treated badly - just that not everyone is treated the way they ought to be :nope:
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    This isn't the place for a rant but I don't understand why students still want to make it compulsory. Nobody's asking to ban it, but exams are stressful enough as it is and having to dress up in fancy clothes just makes it even more stressful for some people. It makes absolutely no difference to anybody else what I'm wearing in an exam so I personally think that keeping it compulsory is pretty pretentious and unjustifiable in the 21st Century. There's nothing wrong with harmless traditions - I'm not a fan of the formals of fancy events like matriculation but they don't really affect me in any way - but subfusc in examinations doesn't really fall into that category.

    Cambridge voted against it so I don't really see why Oxford can't.
    That's not an argument since people who don't want to wear it don't actually have to wear it. If you want to do it right, you can write to the Senior Tutor; but there have been people who didn't wear it, as a protest, and nothing happened to them.

    The only thing the 'getting rid of subfusc' thing did and would do is to distract people from the real issue - exam stress. Subfusc does not, per se, give anyone stress. The exams do. What people should campaign for is to reform the exam system at Oxford, not to deal with these little things that don't actually make a difference.

    It's also odd that you'd say it's bad because we're in the 21st Century. In the 21st Century, many professions require a uniform, many places require a dress code, and many schools have a uniform. Do also keep in mind the fact that the subfusc is not strictly a uniform, but only a dress code.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    The only thing the 'getting rid of subfusc' thing did and would do is to distract people from the real issue - exam stress. Subfusc does not, per se, give anyone stress. The exams do. What people should campaign for is to reform the exam system at Oxford, not to deal with these little things that don't actually make a difference.
    I don't see how it distracts from the issue at all, and to claim that it doesn't give anyone stress is just not true. It makes me stressed, and I have spoken to others who say it makes it more stressful for them too. I accept that this might not be something that affects most students but having to wear subfusc definitely does stress some students out. Of course there are plenty of other causes of exam stress and I'm not suggesting that subfusc is the most important one, but I do think it's one of the easiest to change.

    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    It's also odd that you'd say it's bad because we're in the 21st Century. In the 21st Century, many professions require a uniform, many places require a dress code, and many schools have a uniform.
    So what? How is that in any way an argument for having to wear (or in your words, 'enforcing a dress code') subfusc in exams? I don't see the connection. When a dress code is enforced, it's generally for a purpose - to be easily identifiable to customers, to stop contamination in a laboratory, etc. None of that is applicable to an exams situation. If you want to use the "Everyone else does X therefore we should do X" argument, not a single other university in this country enforces such a strict 'dress code' in exams.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    I don't see how it distracts from the issue at all,
    How is that not a distractor? No-one is talking about reforming the exam system, and everyone would feel like they've achieved something had the referenda gone the other way. In fact, a continued campaign to remove the requirement would only stop people from talking about reforming the exam system.

    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    and to claim that it doesn't give anyone stress is just not true. It makes me stressed, and I have spoken to others who say it makes it more stressful for them too. I accept that this might not be something that affects most students but having to wear subfusc definitely does stress some students out.
    So you're saying, subfusc, per se, gives you stress? That, you can be in subfusc watching TV at home and you and all those people would feel very stressed?

    Unless the answer to the above question is a yes, you are the proof of subfusc being a distractor to people.

    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Of course there are plenty of other causes of exam stress and I'm not suggesting that subfusc is the most important one, but I do think it's one of the easiest to change.
    And it's already changed. No-one actually has to wear it. There have been people who didn't even apply and they walked into their exams without subfusc with no problem.

    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    So what? How is that in any way an argument for having to wear (or in your words, 'enforcing a dress code' subfusc in exams? I don't see the connection. When a dress code is enforced, it's generally for a purpose - to be easily identifiable to customers, to stop contamination in a laboratory, etc. None of that is applicable to an exams situation. If you want to use the "Everyone else does X therefore we should do X" argument, not a single other university in this country enforces such a strict 'dress code' in exams.
    It is not; I was merely pointing out the fallacy in your rhetic. In my view, there are no real arguments for compulsory subfusc either; but when you are asking to change something, what you need are arguments against it, especially when the vast majority of people affected favoured keeping it.

    The subfusc was meant to be a leveller and so everyone, no matter what background, is treated the same and only academic merits are being taken account. Subfusc also helps people to go into an exam mode and to be able to get out of the mode easily.

    But my argument is that dealing with subfusc only distracts us from the real issue, and it clearly has. Oxford shouldn't have final exams that count for everything without micro-summative assessments, Oxford should adopt an approach to make sure that the output assessed aligned with the input given. But hey, of course the subfusc is the thing to fight against. It's entirely like eliminating slavery by asking for a limit on how many times a master can rape his slaves every day.
 
 
 
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