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Revealed: the 30-year economic betrayal dragging down Generation Y’s income Watch

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    Generation Y is roughly our generation (born between late 1980s and 2000)

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ation-y-income

    Tl;dr:

    -Pensioners have seen higher disposable income growth than young people in almost every wealthy country over the last few decades
    -Prosperity has plummeted for young adults in the rich world. In the US, under-30s are now poorer than retired people. In the UK, pensioner disposable income has grown three times as fast as the income of young people.
    -Millennials have suffered wage losses in the US, Italy, France, Spain, Germany and Canada, and in some countries this was underway even before the 2008 financial crisis.
    -In the US, France, Germany, Italy and Canada the average disposable income of people in their early 20s is more than 20% below national averages
    -In France, recent pensioners had more disposable income than families headed by a person under 50. In Italy the average under-35 became poorer than average pensioners under 80. In the US in 2013, average under-30s had less income than those aged 65-79
    -In the US, young people sit on $1.3tn of student debt
    -The numbers of thirtysomethings living with their parents is very high in countries such as Italy and Spain, with grave implications for birthrates and family formation in places whose demographics are already badly skewed towards elderly people
    -By 2041 it is estimated that 1/3rd of UK will be over 65 years old, and higher across most of Europe; pensions are becoming an ever larger drain on budgets in the West - in the UK, for example, pensions are guaranteed to rise by at least inflation

    There's been a slow erosion of things that the previous generation took for granted.
    Student grants? Gone. Affordable mortgages? Gone. Final salary pensions? Gone. Early retirement? Gone.
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Bit of a victim complex you've got there?
    I'm stating facts, not opinions
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    Good article.

    All these people retired, or soon to retire, on final salary pensions - who's picking up the bill? There's eye watering deficits in these schemes. Paying someone 30k a year to be bone idle for twenty years - where's the viability in that?

    Are full time workers subsidising those on caribean cruises?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    x.
    So in summary: Our generation is paying the cost of the baby boomers' pensions (our (parents/grandparents)....and that is the #1 cause why our generation is going to be much worse off than the previous generations.

    i love articles like this. Most of our generation today has no idea how f***ed they are going to be 20 years from now. I'm enjoying my 20 year head start.
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    (Original post by Death Grips)
    So in summary: Our generation is paying the cost of the baby boomers' pensions (our (parents/grandparents)....and that is the #1 cause why our generation is going to be much worse off than the previous generations.

    i love articles like this. Most of our generation today has no idea how f***ed they are going to be 20 years from now. I'm enjoying my 20 year head start.
    I wouldn't put it quite like that; our generation is paying the cost of a rapidly ageing population from unsustainably low birth rates, combined with unrealistically generous pensions and state handouts, combined with the end of the post WWII economic miracle.

    Also, interestingly, the Flynn effect has reversed in many Western nations; that is, the average IQs of new age groups are decreasing in many countries (mainly European). That must have something to do with it

    Our generation isn't f***ed; there are some bright spots - we are in the midst of a golden age of scientific advance, we are living longer than ever before, and crime just keeps on going down. The question is how long this lasts. Perhaps it goes downhill from here - after all, the main problem is that our generation won't be able to afford families (housing, education, etc.), so the next generation will be much smaller again, and have to support an even greater number of elderly. (This is called the low fertility trap)
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    The Baby Boomers: The generation that firstly, massively benefited from the system then as soon as possible re-engineered it so they continued to benefit at the expense of their children.

    When the history of humanity is written it will be noted that it was they who sowed the seeds of our destruction.
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    Here's how the ratio of average (median) house price to average income has evolved from 1997 to 2013

    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload.../Chart_576.pdf
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Generation Y is roughly our generation (born between late 1980s and 2000)

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ation-y-income

    Tl;dr:

    -Pensioners have seen higher disposable income growth than young people in almost every wealthy country over the last few decades
    -Prosperity has plummeted for young adults in the rich world. In the US, under-30s are now poorer than retired people. In the UK, pensioner disposable income has grown three times as fast as the income of young people.
    -Millennials have suffered wage losses in the US, Italy, France, Spain, Germany and Canada, and in some countries this was underway even before the 2008 financial crisis.
    -In the US, France, Germany, Italy and Canada the average disposable income of people in their early 20s is more than 20% below national averages
    -In France, recent pensioners had more disposable income than families headed by a person under 50. In Italy the average under-35 became poorer than average pensioners under 80. In the US in 2013, average under-30s had less income than those aged 65-79
    -In the US, young people sit on $1.3tn of student debt
    -The numbers of thirtysomethings living with their parents is very high in countries such as Italy and Spain, with grave implications for birthrates and family formation in places whose demographics are already badly skewed towards elderly people
    -By 2041 it is estimated that 1/3rd of UK will be over 65 years old, and higher across most of Europe; pensions are becoming an ever larger drain on budgets in the West - in the UK, for example, pensions are guaranteed to rise by at least inflation

    There's been a slow erosion of things that the previous generation took for granted.
    Student grants? Gone. Affordable mortgages? Gone. Final salary pensions? Gone. Early retirement? Gone.
    I'm Gen X myself. Not many of us looking forward to final salary pensions or early retirement either. The Boomers ate all the pies. Greedy ****ers.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I'm Gen X myself. Not many of us looking forward to final salary pensions or early retirement either. The Boomers ate all the pies. Greedy ****ers.
    I wouldn't say they've eaten all the pies, but their generation certainly set the precedent - each generation will now leach off future generations, in the largest Ponzi scheme ever devised

    Of course, we really shouldn't feel entitled to these goodies; but its only natural to expect the same as your parents receive, and its going to be a nasty shock for younger generations. This generation expects a certain standard of living; until that standard is met, they'll borrow in the fallacious expectation that things will inevitably improve, delay buying houses, starting families, further decreasing the birth rate, won't invest in the future (why subsidise the future when you are struggling financially yourself?), and ultimately leaving themselves to be a huge drain on the (much smaller) next generation or two.

    I would happily see generation Y completely screwed over, if the following generations were saved from this cycle of decay
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    I wouldn't say they've eaten all the pies, but their generation certainly set the precedent - each generation will now leach off future generations, in the largest Ponzi scheme ever devised

    Of course, we really shouldn't feel entitled to these goodies; but its only natural to expect the same as your parents receive, and its going to be a nasty shock for younger generations. This generation expects a certain standard of living; until that standard is met, they'll borrow in the fallacious expectation that things will inevitably improve, delay buying houses, starting families, further decreasing the birth rate, won't invest in the future (why subsidise the future when you are struggling financially yourself?), and ultimately leaving themselves to be a huge drain on the (much smaller) next generation or two.

    I would happily see generation Y completely screwed over, if the following generations were saved from this cycle of decay
    Pretty much agree. It's a definite Ponzi scheme.

    I think that generations going forward are going to have to get used to the idea of being poorer than their parents.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Pretty much agree. It's a definite Ponzi scheme.

    I think that generations going forward are going to have to get used to the idea of being poorer than their parents.
    No they don't

    One generation just has to 'man up' and take a hit to their own lifestyle, to break the cycle

    Exactly the same is happening with global warming - continuing the consumerist gluttony > safe-guarding humanity's future, no generation is willing to take a significant cut to their comfy lifestyles, instead they kick the can further and further down the road
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    No they don't

    One generation just has to 'man up' and take a hit to their own lifestyle, to break the cycle

    Exactly the same is happening with global warming - continuing the consumerist gluttony > safe-guarding humanity's future, no generation is willing to take a significant cut to their comfy lifestyles, instead they kick the can further and further down the road
    Fair enough. Don't look at me though. I'm alright Jack!
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    Partly this is about pensions and partly this is about a broken housing market where the supply just has not been allowed to keep pace with the demand - largely because of vested interests lobbying against changes to planning and tax laws.

    At first this basically just entrenches inequality - yes the older generation have more than the younger generation, but through inheritance you find that the older generation that own property pass their inheritance down to the younger generation and this creates a big divide. You see this now amongst young people in their 20s, amongst my friendship groups I can see a large divide in standard of living between some early to mid 20 somethings who have got houses and are fairly positive about the future and those who are stuck renting and unable to save for a deposit because their rent increases every year and is hoovering up most of their income.

    The difference between the two groups is parental help.

    So at first this debate has some young people despairing about their future and others taking the I'm alright Jack approach and saying well boohoo nobody owes you a living how about stop spending money on iphones and games consoles and start saving, its always been a challenge getting a house etc.

    But what starts to happen over time, is the children of Middle England are being disenfranchised and even their comfortably off parents cannot do anything about it. OK they might have a house that's worth a lot but if they have three kids who they have had to fund through school and university, they don't have the means to raise the large sums needed for London deposits for all three of their children. And these are the ones who will really notice the difference in living standards between the generations as the parents will look at their children and think, they are doing the same kind of thing as us, went to good unis, got good professional jobs, and now they are living in house shares and perma-renters. Also as people are living longer the costs of social care eat up these inheritances so just because your parents have a house worth £750k-£800k, if they are in nursing homes for a number of years the house will have to be sold to pay for their care so the inheritance disappears.

    We have a major problem unless policy makers really tackle the housing market but the difficulty will be that to enable young people to have affordable housing it will mean prices have to come down and that will mean that a lot of property owners who were banking on a one way bet with their property a constantly appreciating asset, will have to confront the unconfrontable which is that their house price will fall.

    It does concern me about getting on the property ladder - that at SOME point there will be a tipping point where action will need to be taken, and those who got on the property bandwagon too late will be the ones who bought at the top of a market that may then move in the opposite direction.
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    Just imagine, 20 years from now, telling women you're a homeowner will get you laid :lol:

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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    There's been a slow erosion of things that the previous generation took for granted.
    Student grants? Gone. Affordable mortgages? Gone. Final salary pensions? Gone. Early retirement? Gone.
    The biggest change is something that your parents didn't take for granted, that you do.

    Before about 1990 no one cared about student grants because most people didn't go to university. Most of those people did the same sort of jobs at 16 that their children are doing at 21.

    The universalisation of university has imposed 5 years of lost earnings and several years salary equivalent in debt for what for most is little return. A 28-year old today is financially equivalent to a 20 year old of her parents' generation.
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    Most Baby Boomers hardly had it easy.

    They were brought up in a post war Britain with rationing to 1954, no access to education post 15 and O levels for the majority of the population, huge class sizes 50+, many cities unable to get teachers at all, women teachers on 2/3rds men's pay, women unable to get loans or mortgages, women sacked when they got married ( eg in banks), direct discrimination against women wanting to enter the professions ( eg quotas for medicine courses, most Oxbridge Colleges not admitting women) Gays criminalised and likely to be imprisoned, very few cars, TVs etc. discrimination against blacks, Irish etc., widespread slum housing, air pollution in cities, one of the poorest state retirement pensions in Europe, huge problem of isolation and loneliness among elderly, NI married women's stamp - so no sick pay, retirement pension, mass male unemployment following closure of industries like Steel, Mining, Engineering .........Now bedroom tax, reduction in benefits for sick, no /little provision for housing for single elderly men etc. etc.

    Just a cursory glance at this will tell you how much that generation has achieved in changing things for the better. This current young generation must try to emulate them by fighting as hard as the Baby Boomers generation have.

    Start by making sure to register to vote and indeed vote. Organise, join a pressure group, join a union etc. Unless we prove ourselves as a political force to be reckoned with we will never persuade any Government to take our interests seriously and they will continue to attack our standard of living, employment rights (800,000 are on zero hour contracts), pensions, housing etc. instead of cracking down on those corporations who don't pay their tax.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Generation Y is roughly our generation (born between late 1980s and 2000)

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ation-y-income

    Tl;dr:

    -Pensioners have seen higher disposable income growth than young people in almost every wealthy country over the last few decades
    -Prosperity has plummeted for young adults in the rich world. In the US, under-30s are now poorer than retired people. In the UK, pensioner disposable income has grown three times as fast as the income of young people.
    -Millennials have suffered wage losses in the US, Italy, France, Spain, Germany and Canada, and in some countries this was underway even before the 2008 financial crisis.
    -In the US, France, Germany, Italy and Canada the average disposable income of people in their early 20s is more than 20% below national averages
    -In France, recent pensioners had more disposable income than families headed by a person under 50. In Italy the average under-35 became poorer than average pensioners under 80. In the US in 2013, average under-30s had less income than those aged 65-79
    -In the US, young people sit on $1.3tn of student debt
    -The numbers of thirtysomethings living with their parents is very high in countries such as Italy and Spain, with grave implications for birthrates and family formation in places whose demographics are already badly skewed towards elderly people
    -By 2041 it is estimated that 1/3rd of UK will be over 65 years old, and higher across most of Europe; pensions are becoming an ever larger drain on budgets in the West - in the UK, for example, pensions are guaranteed to rise by at least inflation

    There's been a slow erosion of things that the previous generation took for granted.
    Student grants? Gone. Affordable mortgages? Gone. Final salary pensions? Gone. Early retirement? Gone.
    I've been saying it for ages our generation the under 35s is paying for the generation aboves financial mistakes.

    The number one of which is property prices.


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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Partly this is about pensions and partly this is about a broken housing market where the supply just has not been allowed to keep pace with the demand - largely because of vested interests lobbying against changes to planning and tax laws.

    At first this basically just entrenches inequality - yes the older generation have more than the younger generation, but through inheritance you find that the older generation that own property pass their inheritance down to the younger generation and this creates a big divide. You see this now amongst young people in their 20s, amongst my friendship groups I can see a large divide in standard of living between some early to mid 20 somethings who have got houses and are fairly positive about the future and those who are stuck renting and unable to save for a deposit because their rent increases every year and is hoovering up most of their income.

    The difference between the two groups is parental help.

    So at first this debate has some young people despairing about their future and others taking the I'm alright Jack approach and saying well boohoo nobody owes you a living how about stop spending money on iphones and games consoles and start saving, its always been a challenge getting a house etc.

    But what starts to happen over time, is the children of Middle England are being disenfranchised and even their comfortably off parents cannot do anything about it. OK they might have a house that's worth a lot but if they have three kids who they have had to fund through school and university, they don't have the means to raise the large sums needed for London deposits for all three of their children. And these are the ones who will really notice the difference in living standards between the generations as the parents will look at their children and think, they are doing the same kind of thing as us, went to good unis, got good professional jobs, and now they are living in house shares and perma-renters. Also as people are living longer the costs of social care eat up these inheritances so just because your parents have a house worth £750k-£800k, if they are in nursing homes for a number of years the house will have to be sold to pay for their care so the inheritance disappears.

    We have a major problem unless policy makers really tackle the housing market but the difficulty will be that to enable young people to have affordable housing it will mean prices have to come down and that will mean that a lot of property owners who were banking on a one way bet with their property a constantly appreciating asset, will have to confront the unconfrontable which is that their house price will fall.

    It does concern me about getting on the property ladder - that at SOME point there will be a tipping point where action will need to be taken, and those who got on the property bandwagon too late will be the ones who bought at the top of a market that may then move in the opposite direction.
    It's fine saying it's passed down, yea it is but if your mom has you at 25 and dies at 85 you're 60 when you get it that's too late for a family it's just a retirement boost


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    Work this one out you have to save 800 a month in a pension from the age of 22 to receive the average private pension today.

    That's with the average house price ten times that of the average wage and rapidly increasing.

    Massive competition for jobs because of immigrants.

    The devaluation of degrees because of stupid amounts of people being allowed to do them even with poor grades.

    Much higher consumable bills than the boomers with regards to fuel, food etc

    Basically you are ****ed and the generation as a whole hasn't even worked that out.


    Oh yea enjoy working 10 years longer too.

    Thanks


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Work this one out you have to save 800 a month in a pension from the age of 22 to receive the average private pension today.

    That's with the average house price ten times that of the average wage and rapidly increasing.

    Massive competition for jobs because of immigrants.

    The devaluation of degrees because of stupid amounts of people being allowed to do them even with poor grades.

    Much higher consumable bills than the boomers with regards to fuel, food etc

    Basically you are ****ed and the generation as a whole hasn't even worked that out.


    Oh yea enjoy working 10 years longer too.

    Thanks


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    True words mate. Which is why i'm doing everything i can today do make sure my ars*hole is protected when the grand f*cking our generation is due for comes round

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