Turn on thread page Beta

"United" Kingdom? watch

Announcements
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Hey guys,

    I just saw the reaction of some of the Scotts after England lost their game against Portugal. Since I'm a foreigner, can someone enlighten me why on earth would Scotts wish bad things to England and English football and stuff? I mean, abroad, the kingdom is really known as United, not a place where there are several seperated parts each hating each other, that's not the image of Her Magesty's kingdom at all! So, I was wondering, how comes..?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    It's because they are sad and find it fun seeing England lose. I understand what they mean.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Inferiority complex........ poor misunderstood, underachieving neighbours
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    It may be a United Kingdom, but they are still different countries and each citizen of their own country carries their own pride and feelings about them. I may be born & still live in England myself, but that doesnt mean I have to support them as well.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kiril)
    Hey guys,

    I just saw the reaction of some of the Scotts after England lost their game against Portugal. Since I'm a foreigner, can someone enlighten me why on earth would Scotts wish bad things to England and English football and stuff? I mean, abroad, the kingdom is really known as United, not a place where there are several seperated parts each hating each other, that's not the image of Her Magesty's kingdom at all! So, I was wondering, how comes..?
    It's to reassure themselves of their national identity.
    In the UK, Scotland, Wales have a strong national identity. England never really did. Instead of being a big equivalent of Scotland or Wales, we're just what's left of the UK when you take away the regions with a strong regional identity.
    Making fun of the English is a way of reaffirming the national identity.

    A bit like the way Canada (although they're a sovereign state), make fun of the Americans in their Molson's ads. They get the impression that gives them a national identity
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    I don't understand it myself. I have an ex who is very Scottish and will support anyone who plays against England. Naturally, this caused a few arguments in our time together and subsequently as friends (thank God we're not speaking now, he'd have a field day tonight). I think it's part of their national pride thing that they have to see England lose, and I think it's sad.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    It's to reassure themselves of their national identity.
    In the UK, Scotland, Wales have a strong national identity. England never really did. Instead of being a big equivalent of Scotland or Wales, we're just what's left of the UK when you take away the regions with a strong regional identity.
    Making fun of the English is a way of reaffirming the national identity.

    A bit like the way Canada (although they're a sovereign state), make fun of the Americans in their Molson's ads. They get the impression that gives them a national identity
    I dont think its that England dont have a national identity but that it is viewed upon as wrong to show it.....some times seen as big headed and sumtimes even rasist ?!?!?!?!?!?!?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Phatjayunoi)
    It may be a United Kingdom, but they are still different countries and each citizen of their own country carries their own pride and feelings about them. I may be born & still live in England myself, but that doesnt mean I have to support them as well.
    There isn't a citizenship for each British nation. There is only British citizenship.
    Just thought I'd clear that up. It can get complicated for a foreigner (I've had to explain the UK to a lot of Americans):
    England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland aren't countries in the "state" cense, they're more like regions, in the same way that Spain has Catalunya and Galicia. They're countries because of their specific culture.
    'The only official state is The UK regrouping these "countries".

    It's all very complicated. The UK is one of the only European countries where regional identities managed to survive. In most other countries they were completely suppressed.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lee86)
    I dont think its that England dont have a national identity but that it is viewed upon as wrong to show it.....some times seen as big headed and sumtimes even rasist ?!?!?!?!?!?!?
    Well I'm not so sure people from Devon, Cornwall, Newcastle and London have much more in common than an average Englishman and Scotsman do...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    There isn't a citizenship for each British nation. There is only British citizenship.
    Just thought I'd clear that up. It can get complicated for a foreigner (I've had to explain the UK to a lot of Americans):
    England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland aren't countries in the "state" cense, they're more like regions, in the same way that Spain has Catalunya and Galicia. They're countries because of their specific culture.
    'The only official state is The UK regrouping these "countries".

    It's all very complicated. The UK is one of the only European countries where regional identities managed to survive. In most other countries they were completely suppressed.
    It's a bit more complicated than that. Both Scotland and Wales have a degree of autonomy, allowing self government- a closer model would be the US states, although even they do not have the same level of autonomy. As well as that Wales is technically a principality, although the prince of wales currently has no governing rule over Wales.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Many Scots just can't get over the fact that they are under our mercy since 1707.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MuvverRussia)
    It's a bit more complicated than that. Both Scotland and Wales have a degree of autonomy, allowing self government- a closer model would be the US states, although even they do not have the same level of autonomy. As well as that Wales is technically a principality, although the prince of wales currently has no governing rule over Wales.
    I don't think the USA is a good example. It's just we always think of them first. The US and Germany can be compared, as they're federal states
    .
    The UK isn't a clearly defined federal state. Currently we have a system close to the Spanish one: with certain "regions", nations, countries, whatever you want to call them, that have a special identity and have their own parliament/national assembly while the rest doesn't.
    England does not have a national assembly and the House of Parliament govern the whole of the UK, not just England.

    A lot of people in England, especially when they're young, are convinced, Wales and Scotland are foreign countries. I had to go abroad to actually completely understand what the UK is.

    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Many Scots just can't get over the fact that they are under our mercy since 1707.
    They could always say the Queen is a descendant of the King of Scotland James VI and is not a direct descendant of Queen Elizabeth I.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    There isn't a citizenship for each British nation. There is only British citizenship.
    Just thought I'd clear that up. It can get complicated for a foreigner (I've had to explain the UK to a lot of Americans):
    England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland aren't countries in the "state" cense, they're more like regions, in the same way that Spain has Catalunya and Galicia. They're countries because of their specific culture.
    'The only official state is The UK regrouping these "countries".

    It's all very complicated. The UK is one of the only European countries where regional identities managed to survive. In most other countries they were completely suppressed.
    Er i make no wonder foreigners are confused if you explain it like that.

    Scotland and Wales are seperate countries, but the nation is britain. Britain includes northern ireland but the UK doesn't. UK refers to England, Scotland and Wales. The term British Isles includes Ireland (republic of and NI)

    Scotland was independent for a LONG time, in fact in Scotland the Queen isn't Elizabeth II because they were never ruled by Elizabeth I.

    As for the origional question, it's possibly due to the fact England and Scotland spent so long fighting each other they now use football instead.

    If you think about countries that no nations exist like Yugoslavia and USSR and how they were actually made up of several countries it gives you a slightly better idea of how british people feel. EG a Latvian may have called themselves a soviet citizen but would never have called themselves russian, but to the outside world all of the soviet union was the same.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by piginapoke)
    You've got that the wrong way round. Great Britain comprises England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom comprises England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The full title is 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

    I'm not sure 'British Isles' includes Ireland either, I think its just 'the mainland' and other islands like the Isle of Man et al.
    Yes it does, along with the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    ah i dunno, just remember when you wake up every morning,
    "i'm not scottish"!

    beautiful isn't it.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kiril)
    Hey guys,

    I just saw the reaction of some of the Scotts after England lost their game against Portugal. Since I'm a foreigner, can someone enlighten me why on earth would Scotts wish bad things to England and English football and stuff? I mean, abroad, the kingdom is really known as United, not a place where there are several seperated parts each hating each other, that's not the image of Her Magesty's kingdom at all! So, I was wondering, how comes..?
    Because scottish people have ginger hair and they are jealous of the brits for having brown and blonde hair.
    No? Nah, I dunno they just hate us.

    They were talking about making a United Kingdom football team, but what Scot would turn up to watch ten English men and Ryan Giggs?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I think there has been a BIG rise in Scottish nationalism in recent years. i grew up in northern England and we didn't have any money to go abroad so my family always went on holiday in Scotland, only a short drive from home. It has changed so much. It has become common for English people to be refused service in bars and restaurants for example, just because they are English. Not in Edinbrugh (never been to Glasgow.) but in smaller towns, all the time. Blatent open hatred. I don't go there anymore. I don't feel safe or welcome. I think if they feel so strongly that they hate the English, we should just cut Scotland loose. Tell them to p*$$ off. They are massively over represented in parliament (Scottish MPs can makes laws in England, but not vice versa.), plus they have better schools and hospitals because they get an unfair share of tax paid by the English! Don't even get me started on the university tuition fees thing! So I say good riddance!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The daft thing is, if England were knocked out, I'd love to see Scotland or Wales (or even, at a slightly longer stretch, Ireland) do well and support them as they are the home nations. Sometimes I get the feeling though that some Scots would prefer England not to win anything than to qualify for any major tournament. This strangeness exists all across sport though (in a local situation for me, Castleford fans hate Leeds but most Leeds fans would name Castleford as their second team). Unless a Scot can come on here and give me a better reason why they won't support England yet I'll support Scotland and Wales, I'd have to put it down to jealousy.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meepmeep)
    The daft thing is, if England were knocked out, I'd love to see Scotland or Wales (or even, at a slightly longer stretch, Ireland) do well and support them as they are the home nations. Sometimes I get the feeling though that some Scots would prefer England not to win anything than to qualify for any major tournament. This strangeness exists all across sport though (in a local situation for me, Castleford fans hate Leeds but most Leeds fans would name Castleford as their second team). Unless a Scot can come on here and give me a better reason why they won't support England yet I'll support Scotland and Wales, I'd have to put it down to jealousy.
    Same here. I would have liked to see Scotland and Wales get into the tournament and create a bit of havoc.
    Though I'm not too sure how fair it is to have 4 national teams for the same state
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sashh)
    Er i make no wonder foreigners are confused if you explain it like that.

    Scotland and Wales are seperate countries, but the nation is britain. Britain includes northern ireland but the UK doesn't. UK refers to England, Scotland and Wales. The term British Isles includes Ireland (republic of and NI)

    Scotland was independent for a LONG time, in fact in Scotland the Queen isn't Elizabeth II because they were never ruled by Elizabeth I.

    As for the origional question, it's possibly due to the fact England and Scotland spent so long fighting each other they now use football instead.

    If you think about countries that no nations exist like Yugoslavia and USSR and how they were actually made up of several countries it gives you a slightly better idea of how british people feel. EG a Latvian may have called themselves a soviet citizen but would never have called themselves russian, but to the outside world all of the soviet union was the same.
    My explanation wasn't to make people understand what the UK is. A lot of the people here do. But people get muddled up with the terms "country", "nation", "state".
    UK = England + Scotland + Wales + NI + Isle Of Man + Channel Islands

    England is not a state, neither is Scotland, neither is Wales... The official state is the United Kingdom.
    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/uk.html

    Saying that Scotland and Wales are countries is a bit tricky. When people hear the word "country" they understand "state". They're countries in the cultural and national sense. As for nations, there is such a thing as the "British nation" but people refer to the "English nation", the "Welsh nation" much more often. Here are some examples:
    - Wales has a NATIONAL assembly
    - We always talk about Scottish (or English) NATIONALISM
    So England, Scotland, Wales can be refered to as nations (or maybe even countries) but not states. They have no political status outside the UK.

    And there's no comparison possible between The Soviet Union and the United Kingdom. The former was a Federation of Republics, meaning a Federal State (You had several states such as Russia, Ukraine and one big federal state grouping them altogether).

    That's why I compared the UK to Spain. They have a very similar political system: one big state "Spain" with separate nations (some would say countries) like Galicia (has its own parliament just like Scotland does), Catalunya, the Basque Country...

    And no, England and Scotland don't have separate teams because they like fighting eachother. It's probably due to historical reasons: football was created in the UK and the first "international" matches were between different British nations: Wales v Ireland was the first ever international match. They just kept the tradition.
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: June 28, 2004
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.